Ovens and Murray - Pre Season 2010

[Silver_kid]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

switch the play, would have thought that the clubs need to better manage their reserves players better to keep them. As a rule I've found that poor management(communication) is the main reason for blokes to depart to district leagues, as most O&M clubs should offer far superior facilities and resources.

Of particular note is when senior coaches bring bloke up from the 2s only to give them very little game time...and this I've seen repeated many times- which will send a bloke out bush quick as you like.

In regard to finance, I believe the O and M clubs should be doing as much as possible to make sure reserve blokes arnt overly out of pocket, again part of the management. Not sure how many reserve stalwarts train 3 nights a week and do a recovery though....

At the end of the day most clubs wouldn't see looking after 2's as a worthy ROI. Although they are extremely important to the long term survival of clubs, the reserves match is not considered the one which brings people through the gates and draws sponsorship. Totally understandable though that good 2's players are going to lower standards to play senior football while getting a packet. Clubs must find a balance to keep their core group of players happy.

 

[Whereitallbegan]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Will clubs have to change their thought process in regards to the Reserves?I reckon with a commitment of 3 nights a week plus game plus recovery for generally $15-$25 a week it would cost the reserve grade players to play for the year.Add in fuel to travel;memberships;uniforms etc it is little wonder most clubs are battling for numbers.I have heard Corowa have approx 26 on their list;Nth Albury;Lavington and Wodonga all with barely 40 and Myrtleford obviously battled in 09.
Country clubs throw good money at these players for less commitment and the chance to become senior players.They may have to reduce their budget on senior footballers and spread a bit more around reserve grade players to keep them.Thoughts?

Don't know of any O&M clubs that train 3 night a week once the season proper starts, even now at this stage doubt they would be, the players may take it on themselves to do a gym session outside of training time, but that's not necessarily done at the club itself

 

[MelbOMsupporter]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Thanks Big E, found it on the O&M site. slightly outdated but still the core group there. The updated list would be fairly different now.

 

[Tysy32]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Don't know of any O&M clubs that train 3 night a week once the season proper starts, even now at this stage doubt they would be, the players may take it on themselves to do a gym session outside of training time, but that's not necessarily done at the club itself

The Wodonga Raiders Are Trainning Three Nights A Week From What I Hear.. Having A Real Crack Could Be A Real Smokie. With The New Bigger Bodied Recurits And The Younger Players Getting A Bit Of Size About Them And Seeing Mark Doolan Taking Hangers In There Intra Club Last Friday.

 

[raidrboy]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

The Wodonga Raiders Are Trainning Three Nights A Week From What I Hear.. Having A Real Crack Could Be A Real Smokie. With The New Bigger Bodied Recurits And The Younger Players Getting A Bit Of Size About Them And Seeing Mark Doolan Taking Hangers In There Intra Club Last Friday.

Tysy32,

I watched the game last Friday night and although I was at the other end of the ground I thought it was you that was grabbing a couple of hangers.

 

[Dogmatic6]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

I think you will d that next year two or three clubs from QLD will be doing what Aspley have done this year. Main reason is thier are no transfer fees for players coming form the O and M. If they were to recruit players from other state leagues (even out of contract) they would have to pay a transfer fees usually around $5,000 for good players even more.

Spot on Dr. I also note that the VCFL have conducted a survey on the spending habits of regional clubs. Here's a quote from a December article:

A COUNTRY football club splashed out $180,000 on player payments this year.
The stunning figure was revealed in a Victorian Country Football League survey to assess the spending habits of rural and regional clubs.
Not even the VCFL knows which club paid top dollar for its players, as the survey ensured club confidentiality.
But VCFL chief executive Glenn Scott said he "didn't fall on to the floor" when the high figure was revealed.
"It wouldn't surprise me, in one or two of our bigger leagues, that there could be some clubs that are (paying) up around that level," Mr Scott said.
"I would just hope the club has done it knowing all the consequences - there's no guarantee of success just because you're paying a lot to players."
The survey also found the average major league football club spends $70,000 a season on player payments, and the minor league clubs an average of $40,000.
​

Given AFLQ has a salary cap of $140K, one wonders whether the "Northern Cash Splash" is really the key reason for the moves this year. there seems to be plenty of $ in the O & M??

 

[Gun Recruit]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Spot on Dr. I also note that the VCFL have conducted a survey on the spending habits of regional clubs. Here's a quote from a December article:

A COUNTRY football club splashed out $180,000 on player payments this year.
The stunning figure was revealed in a Victorian Country Football League survey to assess the spending habits of rural and regional clubs.
Not even the VCFL knows which club paid top dollar for its players, as the survey ensured club confidentiality.
But VCFL chief executive Glenn Scott said he "didn't fall on to the floor" when the high figure was revealed.
"It wouldn't surprise me, in one or two of our bigger leagues, that there could be some clubs that are (paying) up around that level," Mr Scott said.
"I would just hope the club has done it knowing all the consequences - there's no guarantee of success just because you're paying a lot to players."
The survey also found the average major league football club spends $70,000 a season on player payments, and the minor league clubs an average of $40,000.
​

Given AFLQ has a salary cap of $140K, one wonders whether the "Northern Cash Splash" is really the key reason for the moves this year. there seems to be plenty of $ in the O & M??

I take it the Albury Tigers didnt take part in this 2009 survey ?
If they did the survey truthfully then they would have made that $180,000 look like peanuts. If they'd have done the survey then Mr.Scott may well have fallen to the floor and may have never got up !

 

[Run Straight]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

I take it the Albury Tigers didnt take part in this 2009 survey ?
If they did the survey truthfully then they would have made that $180,000 look like peanuts. If they'd have done the survey then Mr.Scott may well have fallen to the floor and may have never got up !

Agree with you GR, spending $180K would be quite commonplace in the O&M. Without naming clubs, some at the pointy end of the ladder either didn't participate or didn't tell the truth. There is no point having a survey if some don't participate or don't input correct data - the result of the survey becomes flawed. I am also surprised the minor league average is only $40,000, but I suppose there could have been some very minor leagues participate and if a very small league only averages $15K it would drag it down.

 

[Dogmatic6]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Thanks for the back up guys - that's my point. Everyone's talking about how much money the AFLQ clubs are throwing around to attract players. This year it's Aspley. Who next year?

With so much money down there, the whole argument's rubbish. I wonder why McClay of aforementioned Tigers fame decided not to make the move?

Next question. With so much money being splashed around in VCFL and so much being hidden, what'll happen to the clubs when the ATO turn their attention to player payments? The clubs are surely creating a nightmare situation for themselves when they get found out??

 

[krusty123]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

While we're on the subject of salary caps and player salaries, would anyone like to comment on the type of points system brought up by Peter Tossol in the BM earlier this week?

(http://www.bordermail.com.au/news/l...t-a-plan-to-save-smalltown-clubs/1766219.aspx).

I personally believe that there is merit in such a system. Competition evenness should be a priority for the league.

Thoughts?

 

[thurgood]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

While we're on the subject of salary caps and player salaries, would anyone like to comment on the type of points system brought up by Peter Tossol in the BM earlier this week?

(http://www.bordermail.com.au/news/l...t-a-plan-to-save-smalltown-clubs/1766219.aspx).

I personally believe that there is merit in such a system. Competition evenness should be a priority for the league.

Thoughts?

tossol = hypocrite i reckon

its common knowledge around corowa that all the melbourne recruits are on over 1000 a game and that tossol gets 25-30 grand to coach -i would have thought that sort of money could be much better spread around a core group of 30 senior-type players to imrpove corowa's depth

tom oconnor hit the nail on the head when he said in the next day's paper that 8 teams have won the flag in the last 12 years with all clubs playing in a grand final in that time

the league is fine, you're never going to have a season when 8 teams can win the flag, at the moment it's albury and yarra at the top and in a few years it will be different teams.

don't reckon the points system has done much to make the hume league more even anyway, it certainly cant claim to have had 8 different sides win the flag in last 12 years

 

[bedford]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Anyone know where Sam Carpenter has gone

 

[harryhoward]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Anyone know where Sam Carpenter has gone

aspley in queensland

 

[Whereitallbegan]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

tossol = hypocrite i reckon

its common knowledge around corowa that all the melbourne recruits are on over 1000 a game and that tossol gets 25-30 grand to coach -i would have thought that sort of money could be much better spread around a core group of 30 senior-type players to imrpove corowa's depth

Exactly. They had a bloke like Schmidt, a local, a better player than most of the highly paid imports, pretty much playing for peanuts, if it wasn't for picking up money for best player awards, he'd have been on very little. Corowa have had some very good junior's, but it appears, are treated shabily and they end up leaving the club.

 

[bedford]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

I would think the kids reckon its easier to get a kick in the surrounding leagues than to have a go in the O and M.

 

[flowerpowercousin]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

name the players who are treated shabily .Last year 3rds 2have stayed and 2 good have left to go wah. The rest would not get a kick in tom sherrins football factory because they are to LAZY.If moneys a problem country leagues need to stop playing outrageous money to people that are just players,all i wish this money was around when i was playing may not need to work now

 

[Protege]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

name the players who are treated shabily .Last year 3rds 2have stayed and 2 good have left to go wah. The rest would not get a kick in tom sherrins football factory because they are to LAZY.If moneys a problem country leagues need to stop playing outrageous money to people that are just players,all i wish this money was around when i was playing may not need to work now

The general consensus seems to be that if Tossol starts you on the bench then you're more than likely going to spend most the day there. The younger blokes tend to be a victim of this, lose a bit of interest and head out bush, Fulton being a prime example of this early on last year. I don't believe the lads that went over the bridge were offered anything significant

 

[Flat White]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Thanks for the back up guys - that's my point. Everyone's talking about how much money the AFLQ clubs are throwing around to attract players. This year it's Aspley. Who next year?

With so much money down there, the whole argument's rubbish. I wonder why McClay of aforementioned Tigers fame decided not to make the move?

Next question. With so much money being splashed around in VCFL and so much being hidden, what'll happen to the clubs when the ATO turn their attention to player payments? The clubs are surely creating a nightmare situation for themselves when they get found out??

Dog,

Forget the ATO, you don't need to pay tax on money 'earnt' from a hobby, you just need to sign an ATO form to show that is the source of income. Plenty of footy clubs use these. I am not too sure if this is capped to a certian amount but it is not a consideration in terms of player payments.

Also you need to think about how much is in cash, a bulider wouldn't declare this income why would a footballer?

As for the hysteria regarding AFLQ teams and the money up there, I think it is all overstated. There is plenty of cash in the O&M even more so than up there, it's the AFL Canberra that has all the coin, just that living there would be crap.

The O&M will be infront of the AFLQ for a while yet, no need for panic.

 

[Dogmatic6]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Dog,

Forget the ATO, you don't need to pay tax on money 'earnt' from a hobby, you just need to sign an ATO form to show that is the source of income. Plenty of footy clubs use these. I am not too sure if this is capped to a certian amount but it is not a consideration in terms of player payments.

Also you need to think about how much is in cash, a bulider wouldn't declare this income why would a footballer?

As for the hysteria regarding AFLQ teams and the money up there, I think it is all overstated. There is plenty of cash in the O&M even more so than up there, it's the AFL Canberra that has all the coin, just that living there would be crap.

The O&M will be infront of the AFLQ for a while yet, no need for panic.

The tax cases and rulings say anything from about $3K to $6K in total per year Flattie. I'd suggest that a lot of guys signing a hobby dec would be in strife. Just like a builder found out for taking cash, a footballer would get done over.

I'm not saying others don't do it - just that rorting the system is a risk. With the VCFL publishing a guide, you'd have to think the ATO would take some interest??

 

[Albert Park]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

The tax cases and rulings say anything from about $3K to $6K in total per year Flattie. I'd suggest that a lot of guys signing a hobby dec would be in strife. Just like a builder found out for taking cash, a footballer would get done over.

I'm not saying others don't do it - just that rorting the system is a risk. With the VCFL publishing a guide, you'd have to think the ATO would take some interest??

Can you point us towards those tax cases & rulings Dogmatic, would be very interested to read, as to date tax on football payments has been a big grey area.

 

[speed racer]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

Dog,

Forget the ATO, you don't need to pay tax on money 'earnt' from a hobby, you just need to sign an ATO form to show that is the source of income. Plenty of footy clubs use these. I am not too sure if this is capped to a certian amount but it is not a consideration in terms of player payments.

Also you need to think about how much is in cash, a bulider wouldn't declare this income why would a footballer?

As for the hysteria regarding AFLQ teams and the money up there, I think it is all overstated. There is plenty of cash in the O&M even more so than up there, it's the AFL Canberra that has all the coin, just that living there would be crap.

The O&M will be infront of the AFLQ for a while yet, no need for panic.

Speaking of Canberra Belconnen plays Albury on 20th March at Albury. I have seen that Belconnen have a few loses from last year who are ireplaceable so should they expect to get touched up by Albury? it would be great to see them get stitched.

 

[Wonga]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

hi all,

was just looking through clearances and noticed something strange. Yarrawonga have cleared 17 players away from the club and are yet to have one clearance into the club. You would think they would need to have signatures soon, with less than a month before the seaon starts. It may be a case that players havent committed yet.

 

[Flat White]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

The tax cases and rulings say anything from about $3K to $6K in total per year Flattie. I'd suggest that a lot of guys signing a hobby dec would be in strife. Just like a builder found out for taking cash, a footballer would get done over.

I'm not saying others don't do it - just that rorting the system is a risk. With the VCFL publishing a guide, you'd have to think the ATO would take some interest??

Yeah the bulider was a bad example, it was more the cash aspect and how hard it is to prove that you have been paid a certian amount. A builder would be in more strife as they are a business not an individual.

I had a look on the ATO website and could not find anything relating to this, I only know about these forms because I have signed them before.

As for $6k, that isn't a great amount to have as the ceiling for a hobby earnings, probably wouldn't get some blokes in the O&M to Rd5.

 

[Tatsean]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

hi all,

was just looking through clearances and noticed something strange. Yarrawonga have cleared 17 players away from the club and are yet to have one clearance into the club. You would think they would need to have signatures soon, with less than a month before the seaon starts. It may be a case that players havent committed yet.

Is that why they cancelled their praccy match against Tatura this Saturday...not enough players??

 

[TheGreatBambino]

Re: Ovens and Murray Part 3

hi all,

was just looking through clearances and noticed something strange. Yarrawonga have cleared 17 players away from the club and are yet to have one clearance into the club. You would think they would need to have signatures soon, with less than a month before the seaon starts. It may be a case that players havent committed yet.

Seen them train over pre-season while i was staying at the caravan park. Mick Stevens stand-out. Thought they would have more numbers there for a Ovens & Murray side. Isn't some lower league team paying them all better money?