Summer Paris 2024 - General Discussion

[gbear]

If Lin is also XY, then why can't they have a different division for these boxers?

Imane Khelif, boxer in middle of Olympics gender storm, forces tearful first opponent to quit 46 seconds into fight

Imane Khelif’s first fight will do nothing to calm the controversy around the boxer’s entrance into the 2024 Paris Olympics.

nypost.com

Absolutely ludicrous. Makes an absolute joke of this sport.

 

[GreyCrow]

Im amused that a boxer complained about pain when punched in the nose

 

[scoman]

What's the story with the windsurfing? Karl mentioned we have a guaranteed medal coming?

 

[Underarm]

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‘I had to safeguard my life’: Boxer refuses to fight on amid Olympic gender storm​

‘You can’t put other people at risk’: Aussie boxer weighs into gender storm

A gender controversy has erupted at the Paris Olympics after an Italian boxer abandoned her bout against an opponent, who previously failed a gender test, and refused to shake hands.

www.smh.com.au

A gender controversy has erupted at the Paris Olympics after an Italian boxer abandoned her bout against an opponent who previously failed a gender test, just 46 seconds into the fight.

Italian Angela Carini complained about the strength of her opponent, Algerian Imane Khelif, and said she felt a pain in her nose after just two punches were thrown.

Carini then abruptly quit the bout and refused to shake Khelif’s hand, yelling “it’s not fair, it’s not fair, it’s not fair” in the direction of her corner. “It could be the match of my life but, in that moment, I had to safeguard my life, too,” Carini said.
Khelif was disqualified from the world championship last year after “elevated levels of testosterone” failed to meet the criteria of a gender eligibility test, and the International Boxing Association ruled she had advantages over other female competitors.

The gender controversy has become a flashpoint at the Games, prompting even Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni to declare that boxers with male “characteristics” should not be allowed to compete in women’s events.

The International Olympic Committee disregarded the International Boxing Association’s advice and allowed Khelif, and another female boxer from Chinese Taipei, Lin Yu-ting, previously disqualified for failing gender eligibility tests, to compete in Paris. Neither boxer has publicly identified as transgender or as having “differences in sexual development” (DSD).

And the Academy award goes to....

Sounds like the Italian boxer just isn't very good.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Im amused that a boxer complained about pain when punched in the nose

Well she said she’s never been punched that hard before ..took two knocks.

 

[Cmarsh]

And the Academy award goes to....

Sounds like the Italian boxer just isn't very good.

It's interesting that the IOC disregarded two elevated testosterone tests from seperate competitors and allowed them to compete anyway. Raises questions as to why it was allowed.

 

[FreoGirl]

And the Academy award goes to....

Sounds like the Italian boxer just isn't very good.

Especially against someone with an XY chromosome…

 

[Warsaw]

Went from ‘what a joke letting a man fight’ to ‘what a joke letting someone with XY chromosomes fight’.

The latter isn’t unusual but the former is what’s driving all the debate, looking at it like a trans culture war issue when it just isn’t.

 

[Warsaw]

It's interesting that the IOC disregarded two elevated testosterone tests from seperate competitors and allowed them to compete anyway. Raises questions as to why it was allowed.

The IOCs statement explains why they disregarded it, but testosterone isn’t some catch all for performance. You’d probably find some intersex traits in a lot of high performing women athlete's. In the same way you’d find elevated testosterone in high level male athletes than say the guy trying to crack sub 14 running the Tan.

 

[outabounds]

I feel a bit awkward commenting on this Boxing saga. Do we actually know about Khelif's past gender identity? On one side its a very poor look for the sport and on the other side it is very sad for this individual that the the whole world id debating her gender. Honestly do not know what to think.

 

[Underarm]

I feel a bit awkward commenting on this Boxing saga. Do we actually know about Khelif's past gender identity? On one side its a very poor look for the sport and on the other side it is very sad for this individual that the the whole world id debating her gender. Honestly do not know what to think.

She's always been biologically a woman. She's got Ovaries, Womb, bleeds once a month and nothing dangles. She just happens to have a rare condition where she also has Y chromosomes.

If she was Transgender She'd be more likely behind bars in Algeria than competing for her country.

 

[Alfonz]

What's the story with the windsurfing? Karl mentioned we have a guaranteed medal coming?

Our rider Grae Morris qualified in 1st and straight into the 3-man final. There's a "quarter final" for the 4th-10th qualifiers, with the top 2 then going into a "semi final" with the 2-3 qualifiers. The top 2 from that go into the final with the Aussie. Big advantage for qualifying 1st.

Former schoolboy rugby player weighing in at 100kg. Born in Sydney to Kiwi parents and grew up idolising the All Blacks. There's also an actual Kiwi in the mix who qualified 3rd.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Bleedin' heck!

Why are the Aussie commentary team suddenly such an unrelentingly grim bunch this Olympics?! Say what you like about him but they are in serious need of a good dose of the McAvaney's right now!

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[Satan]

Vale North Korean Medallists

Efa

 

[Cam Payne]

She's always been biologically a woman. She's got Ovaries, Womb, bleeds once a month and nothing dangles. She just happens to have a rare condition where she also has Y chromosomes.

If she was Transgender She'd be more likely behind bars in Algeria than competing for her country.

TERF's gotta TERF.

 

[2 eazy]

Is that boxer chromosomes XX or XY that should be deciding factor. I don't know it is for the Algerian competitor.

 

[dogs105]

TERF's gotta TERF.

It's been interesting seeing all the "XY means you're a man" posting on Twitter. I can't imagine them thinking a couple of weeks ago that they'd be saying "men can be born with vaginas and fallopian tubes". The twisting of logic is pretzel like.

 

[dogs105]

It's been interesting seeing all the "XY means you're a man" posting on Twitter. I can't imagine them thinking a couple of weeks ago that they'd be saying "men can be born with vaginas and fallopian tubes". The twisting of logic is pretzel like.

And no evidence she has X and Y chromosomes yet, just the one unsubstantiated Russian report.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

She's always been biologically a woman. She's got Ovaries, Womb, bleeds once a month and nothing dangles. She just happens to have a rare condition where she also has Y chromosomes.

If she was Transgender She'd be more likely behind bars in Algeria than competing for her country.

I reserved my commentary on this until I knew the parameters around her gender eligibility test failures

Again, this comes down to the governing body - not the athlete

If the IOC was serious they’d have divisions for:
Men
Women
Intersex
Transgender

But they aren’t serious about inclusivity - it’s just virtue signalling

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

My end of Day 6 medals table vs medals handed out table. Getting harder to do these, so no doubt by the weekend I will fall way behind.

Adjustments in Day 6 was the following
Rowing 1) Men's and 2) Women's Double Skulls finals so handed out 2 medals for 2 x 3 placings
Rowing 1) Men's and 2) Women's Coxless 4's finals so handed out 4 medals for 2 x 3 placings
Fencing Women's Team Foil handed out 4 medals per placing
Swimming Women's 4x200m Free relay with heat swimmers handed out Australia 6G, USA 7S, China 6B

Notes for day 6 - Judo like all combat sports give out 2 bronze medals, and 2 Judo events had finals on Day 6.

To the left is national medal count, to the right is medal count to individuals for that nation.

Some time down the track I will add % of athletes who win a medal. I will also add how many teams in team sports countries have and how many athletes those teams supply.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

My end of Day 6 medals table vs medals handed out table. Getting harder to do these, so no doubt by the weekend I will fall way behind.

Adjustments in Day 5 was the following
Rowing 1) Men's and 2) Women's Pairs finals so handed out 2 medals for 2 x 3 placings
Rowing 1) Men's and 2) Women's Coxless 4's finals so handed out 4 medals for 2 x 3 placings
Fencing Women's Team Foil handed out 4 medals per placing
Swimming Women's 4x200m Free relay with heat swimmers handed out Australia 6G, USA 7S, China 6B

Notes for day 5 - Judo like all combat sports give out 2 bronze medals, and 2 Judo events had finals on Day 6.

To the left is national medal count, to the right is medal count to individuals for that nation.

Some time down the track I will add % of athletes who win a medal. I will also add how many teams in team sports countries have and how many athletes those teams supply.

View attachment 2066245
View attachment 2066246

China #1

Kings of the pool!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Athletes who have won 3 medals - all swimmers. The gymnasts will join this lot soon. Plus 3 who have won 2 golds. There are 4 more to have 7 with 2G 0S 0B and of these other 4, 2 are fencers, and 2 gymnasts, See full list at

https://olympics.com/en/paris-2024/medals/medallists

 

[Underarm]

I reserved my commentary on this until I knew the parameters around her gender eligibility test failures

Again, this comes down to the governing body - not the athlete

If the IOC was serious they’d have divisions for:
Men
Women
Intersex
Transgender

But they aren’t serious about inclusivity - it’s just virtue signalling

The amount of Intersex or Trans Females in the world is incredibly small - let alone the amount that actually want to subject themselves to the public ridicule of going to the Olympics.

If anyone could bring evidence that Whatever Imane Khelif has going on is giving her an advantage, then a conversation should take place - But by the looks of her career shes a fairly mediocre Boxer on the International stage who beat and even more mediocre boxer.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

The amount of Intersex or Trans Females in the world is incredibly small - let alone the amount that actually want to subject themselves to the public ridicule of going to the Olympics.

If anyone could bring evidence that Whatever Imane Khelif has going on is giving her an advantage, then a conversation should take place - But by the looks of her career shes a fairly mediocre Boxer on the International stage who beat and even more mediocre boxer.

I also agree with this too, there is definitely a balance to inclusion as to minimise public ridicule or even exposure of private details

Probably another decade from getting it right

Empirical evidence for intersex individuals would be hard to baseline thus difficult to establish anything beyond a higher testosterone having a correlation to athletic performance broadly.. though, even that metric is flawed as there’d be men with low normal test ranges and men with high or near supra-physiological endogenous test who perform in the same capacities.

I’m just a nuffy with interest in human performance and endocrinology - I don’t claim to have the solution.

I do absolutely agree with you though, a lot of these ammo boxers are very average as those who have capacity to do well in the sport in the modern era tend to go pro early. Gone are the days of cutting your teeth and getting fast tracked to the pros via the Olympics.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

I also agree with this too, there is definitely a balance to inclusion as to minimise public ridicule or even exposure of private details

Probably another decade from getting it right

Empirical evidence for intersex individuals would be hard to baseline thus difficult to establish anything beyond a higher testosterone having a correlation to athletic performance broadly.. though, even that metric is flawed as there’d be men with low normal test ranges and men with high or near supra-physiological endogenous test who perform in the same capacities.

I’m just a nuffy with interest in human performance and endocrinology - I don’t claim to have the solution.

I do absolutely agree with you though, a lot of these ammo boxers are very average as those who have capacity to do well in the sport in the modern era tend to go pro early. Gone are the days of cutting your teeth and getting fast tracked to the pros via the Olympics.

Having an unnecessarily long amateur career is a fantastic way to riddle yourself with CTE for little monetary reward.