Pendles as captain, not so keen

[magpies42]

Does anybody really think pendles deserves to be captain. Yes he is outstanding, but he is soft (not lonie soft but not didak soft either) and not hard enough to captain in my opinion.

I think captains need to lead by example, when the chips are down you need everyone going 110 %. If you need to back into a pack you need to back into a pack. How can a captain bark "hardn the fak up" if he doesnt do it himself?!

I think we allow maxy to do his job, when he is done appoint one of the emerging youngsters. Some of which have showed promising signs Beams, Mccarthy, Brown, Reid, Clarke, T.clo, Shaw.

If you cant be bothered reading all this, MY POINT IS CAPTAINS CAN NOT BE SOFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mattys123]

So he has one strange game where he does some things he hasnt done all year, and everyone wants to write him off as captain.

He didnt have a great game today, but leading into today's game his form had been very good, and he had done some fairly tough things in games.

Whether he should be captain or not is a hard one, but I believe we made the right choice based on "leadership ability" rather then toughness.

Pendlebury isnt soft, he just has the odd moment when he hesitates, and I think this is due to his basketball background where phsyical contact is penalised serverley.

Give him some more time to develop too, compare him to Thomas maybe, and then get a greater appreciation at how quickly he has developed into a very good AFL footballer, but that he has so much more room and time for improvement.

Just remember, Nathan Buckley would have been a terrible captain at age 21/22 and was also questioned for his "toughness" around this age.

 

[Blur]

I'm quite unsure on who to pick for our next captain. I think Maxwell is an alright pick for the moment, and shows the occasional bit of leadership, but I think we need someone who can lift the whole team. Could Pendles do that in the next few years? Sure he's a good ball winner, but is he a good leader? Who else could be an option?

 

[magpies42]

So he has one strange game where he does some things he hasnt done all year, and everyone wants to write him off as captain.

He didnt have a great game today, but leading into today's game his form had been very good, and he had done some fairly tough things in games.

Whether he should be captain or not is a hard one, but I believe we made the right choice based on "leadership ability" rather then toughness.

Pendlebury isnt soft, he just has the odd moment when he hesitates, and I think this is due to his basketball background where phsyical contact is penalised serverley.

Give him some more time to develop too, compare him to Thomas maybe, and then get a greater appreciation at how quickly he has developed into a very good AFL footballer, but that he has so much more room and time for improvement.

Just remember, Nathan Buckley would have been a terrible captain at age 21/22 and was also questioned for his "toughness" around this age.

Let me get this straight i am in no way downgrading his footballing nous and ability. He is a star player, put him in the geelong midfield and he would win a brownlow.

I dont think i can ever recall buckley shirking a contest or not backing into a back when needed. If like you say he grew into this, that is a credit to him. If pendles does this i will be rapt, but i dont think we can appoint him captain and hope that he hardens up.

He did have a poor game hitting targets, everybody does. my point is that he is consistently tinmanish and will be a great player despite this.
i am affraid he wont be a great captain

 

[the mighty T]

Pendles i think has the quality to develop into a great captain. I see a lot of qualities in him that ive seen in Judd. Hes got generally good disposal but i recon he needs to be more damaging in front of goal. The leadership skills take time.

Though i didnt like the idea of Maxy as captain at first i think he's grown into the role as well as into a more complete player.

However at the start of the year i would have preferred tarks as captain. Hes always been a terrific servant of the club and he knows how to get the crowd pumped up.

 

[Strachuniee]

Knee jerk reaction. Three weeks ago, people were writing of our season, now we are top 4 material. Pendles didn't have his greatest game, although he did amass 39 possies, is no longer worthy of being considered as captain material. In the future pendles will be the difference in a game and people will be calling for him as captain

My point if you cannot be bothered reading this is judge someone over a greater sample than one game

 

[Pie eyed]

Firstly Pendles is not Captain and won't be as long as Maxwell continues to exhibit the leadership he has since taking the helm.
The right decision was made as to who should be and is Captain.
Pendles may be in the running for the next Captain but I reckon he'll have some stiff competition from a few others not the least being Dayne Beames in about 2013.

 

[Ramere]

Let me get this straight i am in no way downgrading his footballing nous and ability. He is a star player, put him in the geelong midfield and he would win a brownlow.

I dont think i can ever recall buckley shirking a contest or not backing into a back when needed. If like you say he grew into this, that is a credit to him. If pendles does this i will be rapt, but i dont think we can appoint him captain and hope that he hardens up.

He did have a poor game hitting targets, everybody does. my point is that he is consistently tinmanish and will be a great player despite this.
i am affraid he wont be a great captain

I probably tend to agree with you but have hopes he can develope the tougher side of his game. Bucks himself said in his book that he needed to learn how to play tougher so here's to hoping Pendles take a leave from his book.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

I'm quite unsure on who to pick for our next captain. I think Maxwell is an alright pick for the moment, and shows the occasional bit of leadership, but I think we need someone who can lift the whole team. Could Pendles do that in the next few years? Sure he's a good ball winner, but is he a good leader? Who else could be an option?

I think there's a reason Pendles was in the leadership group so young - he also still has huge room to improve. People forget that we put him up for trade after his first 9 games and 20-something later he was in the leadership group. This guy's development has been steeper than anyone in the comp in the last 2 seasons and it will continue.

That said, i think Heath Shaw has captain written all over him and would have been next in line if it wasn't for his actions last year. Shows huge leadership, gives direction, a creative footballer, hard as nails, plays bigger than he is and all of these things are important in a captain. Unless you have a once in a lifetime player like Bucks who will eventually be a good leader no matter what type of player he is I agree that toughness is an important attribute in a captain. When the chips are down, they are the type that lead the way through sheer will. I think Heath shows this more than Pendles does..

 

[magpies42]

I think there's a reason Pendles was in the leadership group so young - he also still has huge room to improve. People forget that we put him up for trade after his first 9 games and 20-something later he was in the leadership group. This guy's development has been steeper than anyone in the comp in the last 2 seasons and it will continue.

That said, i think Heath Shaw has captain written all over him and would have been next in line if it wasn't for his actions last year. Shows huge leadership, gives direction, a creative footballer, hard as nails, plays bigger than he is and all of these things are important in a captain. Unless you have a once in a lifetime player like Bucks who will eventually be a good leader no matter what type of player he is I agree that toughness is an important attribute in a captain. When the chips are down, they are the type that lead the way through sheer will. I think Heath shows this more than Pendles does..

yeah heath would be the obvious choice if it were not for his poor camera work...having said that i think its easier to learn how to speak in front of camera then to grow a heart.

 

[Nine]

He's IMO the best candidate atm.
I think giving him the responsibility as captain would allow him to step up.
Sometimes responsibility does that.

 

[madsta1234]

no he shouldnt be captain hes to young maxwelll sucks as captain dane swan should he deserves it really

 

[Jedi01]

Is this thread for real?????

The guy got 39 possies, was BOG and it was pouring down rain most the day.

Not all players are bash and crash, that's not the only way to inspire a team.

Pendles is a young up and coming champ of our club and anyone starting pointless threads to question one point of his game must be kidding themselves.

 

[zorbadunde]

Is this thread for real?????

The guy got 39 possies, was BOG and it was pouring down rain most the day.

Not all players are bash and crash, that's not the only way to inspire a team.

Pendles is a young up and coming champ of our club and anyone starting pointless threads to question one point of his game must be kidding themselves.

mate BOG? where you watching any of the game.

he cost us probably 3 goals in turn overs. couldnt hit the side of a barn all day. shirked the issue on a few contests and turned the ball over so many times i cant even count.

look he will be a good player, but he needs to learn how to kick as a few people i was sitting next to started to call him the turn over king... and to be honest im starting to see it as well.

Also who cares he got 39 possies, if you use only 15 of them? i mean wouldnt you prefer 15 possesions that are more damaging?

 

[twoforjoy]

Pendles is a skilled young player who has tons of potential to improve. That being said I'm not sure I favour him as Captain. I think he tends to play his own game, and be in the right spot at the right time, but I'm not sure his focus is on bringing others into the the game, and sometimes I think his disposal can sell another player into trouble. But hey he is young and still learning the game. I still think Heath is ahead of him as Captain material and I don't think Maxy was a bad choice. His football talent may be limited but his effort and leadership can not be questioned.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

I agree with the OP.

I would say, though, that critiques of his match-day performances shouldn't come into consideration for this. He's either good enough or not good enough and that isn't something that changes week-by-week.

He's - what - 21 now? How about letting him mature both physically and emotionally so when the time is right he's able to put his hand up for the position knowing he has the capability to handle his on-field duties both as a player and as a leader.

 

[Jedi01]

mate BOG? where you watching any of the game.

he cost us probably 3 goals in turn overs. couldnt hit the side of a barn all day. shirked the issue on a few contests and turned the ball over so many times i cant even count.

look he will be a good player, but he needs to learn how to kick as a few people i was sitting next to started to call him the turn over king... and to be honest im starting to see it as well.

Also who cares he got 39 possies, if you use only 15 of them? i mean wouldnt you prefer 15 possesions that are more damaging?

He was awarded BOG and the TV by Robert Walls after the game.

So he had a poor kicking game in pouring rain, no big surprise. His skills are normally fine. Seriously, what more can the poor guy do.

 

[Gone Critical]

mate BOG? where you watching any of the game.

he cost us probably 3 goals in turn overs. couldnt hit the side of a barn all day. shirked the issue on a few contests and turned the ball over so many times i cant even count.

look he will be a good player, but he needs to learn how to kick as a few people i was sitting next to started to call him the turn over king... and to be honest im starting to see it as well.

Also who cares he got 39 possies, if you use only 15 of them? i mean wouldnt you prefer 15 possesions that are more damaging?

No offense but have you been watching his career, "will be a good player" he went past being a good player long ago, he is A grade heading to elite already

His kicking is spot on , he creates plenty with his kicking and handpassing in traffic putting teammates into the open.

He is way way better than you imply and his real beauty is he has so much room for further improvement

If yesterdays effort becomes his benchmark for a poor game I am rapt

 

[shawthing09]

I think people who accuse Pendles of being soft either need to A) Reasses the way the use the word or alternatively B) Get a better understanding of the game.

On "On the Couch" about a fortnight ago they were going through a Judd love fest and showed the stats for clearances, contested and hardball gets and demonstrating what large percentage of these he wins in comparison to the clubs overall. I think Judd was second at about 10%, On the same list Pendles was 5th at around 8.5%.

Now I am not a fan of stats as a guage for judging a player but if Pendles is in the top 5 for the league and gets just under 10% of the clubs total contested / hard ball / clearance ball, I think it is fairly conclusive that he can't be "soft"

I understand there are times where his attack on the ball doesn't look all that inspiring. On the weekend the incident that I think would have most people throwing up "soft" allegations was the one on the flank in which Davis set him up with a terrible handpass and Pendles was left flat footed whilst Jones charged at him. Of course Jones is going to look like he attacked the contest harder he had the pace and momentum. In that situation whilst it isn't the best looking attack on the ball Pendles did what he does best and played the percentages. Kept his feet and got the ball out of bounds rather then attacking it from a standing start where Jones with the momentum was likely to win and the ball spills.

I think his laconic / cruise control movement means he is often left in situations where he does not have the momentum and for him to go in and try and collide is just not the right decison.

On the other hand he is always in the thick of the tough stuff. Is more then happy to try and free the arms and stand up in a tackle and dish to a better option and is the one as I said who so often wins the ball in tight and frees it out to our more outside guys.

Gone Critical's point above is very valid too. He has had too weeks where we have all admitted he was below his best and by many other players standards he was fine. No one seems to be so harsh on Swan when like against Carlton last year, he racks them up and turns a high % of them over.

Soft is absolutely the wrong word.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Agree with the OP. Pendles is a fine talent, and is probably leading the Copeland at the moment, but he doesn't attack the ball hard enough regularly enough to be captain.

I was dead against making Maxwell captain this year because I simply didn't think he was a good enough player. His recent form has been good, however. If he can maintain that, then he could be captain for a good few years. One thing you could never question about Maxwell is his willingness to put his body on the line (sometimes unnecessarily so, in fact).

On what we've seen this year there's no obvious captaincy alternative to Maxwell, so I wouldn't be rushing to take it off him unless lack of form gives you no alternative.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Now I am not a fan of stats as a guage for judging a player but if Pendles is in the top 5 for the league and gets just under 10% of the clubs total contested / hard ball / clearance ball, I think it is fairly conclusive that he can't be "soft"

In static situations like stoppages where you don't have bodies flying in at the ball at a million miles an hour, he's fine. He's more than happy to wear body contact. It's when the ball is in motion, and so are the players around it, that he's very 'calculated' in his attack on the footy. I've heard it described as 'collision avoidance', which I think is an apt term. That explains how he can rack up lots of contested possessions and clearances etc yet still fail to commit his body on a few occasions each match.

He can't be relied on to bodyline the ball. He'll put his hands and arms in when he should get his body behind the ball, and his efforts when the ball is in the air and he's attempting to mark or spoil can be ordinary.

Posters don't like to hear the word 'soft' bandied around in relation to one of our best, if not our best, young player. And each time it's raised we get some ripping explanations of why he isn't soft, usually quoting from the one stats bible or other. But his attack on the footy sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. That doesn't mean he's not a ripping young player in a lot of other areas.

And Shawthing, my understanding of the game is fine, and he's soft.

EDIT: To be fair, I should say he CAN BE soft, because I've seen him do brave things on the footy field.

 

[ant22]

no he shouldnt be captain hes to young maxwelll sucks as captain dane swan should he deserves it really

If swan had the ability to communicate clearly with adults id agree. Dont get me wrong I love swanny and the way he goes about it but he is the reason people make comments like "thank god that bloke can play football" Nothing wrong with not being the most articulate bloke going around but one of the number 1 traits of being a good leader is being able to communicate and swan does not have it. He is not even in the leadership group and I have never heard him express and interest to be in it. Just let him play, I get the impression he prefers it that way.

I tend to agree with the original poster. Pendles to a dead set gun and now one of the elite mids in the comp. He wins his own footy and leads our hardball gets and clearances but he wins these through his freakish skills rather than putting his head over the footy like a judd type would. He ticks every box except this one but I tend to agree that this is a box that can be left empty if you are captain. In most games this year no matter how good he has played I have been able to find instances where I have though, oh pendles you really should have gone a bit harder there. Its normally contests in the air that are a problem. For the bloke who said it was because of a basketball background, sorry but thats a copeout. Pendles knows the rules and we are talking about the kind of contact where if he goes in he will probably win a free and not the other way around.

He is a deadset gun and great leadership qualities but I agree he needs to improve considerably in this area to be considered for captaincy

 

[Quicky]

I think it's easy to come out and make these sort of calls after two ordinary games (by Pendles standard). I think at the moment Maxwell is doing a fantastic job (although tbh had a dirty start to the year) so it's not really relevant to discuss in the near future. A bit down the track though I think Pendlebury will be a fantastic candidate for captaincy - probably the frontrunner to replace Maxwell if and when his time comes. I'd be hoping by then there will be some healthy competition coming from guys like Anthony, Beams and Sidebottom though.

 

[shawthing09]

Palmer I actually agree with your assesments completely and have said as much myself on different occasions. So I think where we differ is in our defenitions of what makes a player "soft."

I was prior to the end of last year pretty critical on his attack on the ball in motion too. I think he has improved greatly in this area. He is much more willing to go to ground to contest a ball etc.

I agree that the area where most of us are critical is when there is a chance of high impact collisions and again I have acknowledge this myself previously.

I also think as I said above some / a lot of that has to do with the fact that his often cruising laconically around the ground and if he is the person closer to the ball and someone is has momentum up he is more often then not going to lose the physical contest.

I think the issue now is as much about his decisions to play the percentages. For example stand stagnat and try to take possesion of the ball or get the ball out of bounds rather then make a physical contest which he is likely to lose and have the ball spill free.

I agree that there are times where he can / should attack the pill harder and it is frustraighting at the times.

I still don't think that constitutes being soft, rather an issue of not being as hard as some would like.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Palmer I actually agree with your assesments completely and have said as much myself on different occasions. So I think where we differ is in our defenitions of what makes a player "soft."

I was prior to the end of last year pretty critical on his attack on the ball in motion too. I think he has improved greatly in this area. He is much more willing to go to ground to contest a ball etc.

I agree that the area where most of us are critical is when there is a chance of high impact collisions and again I have acknowledge this myself previously.

I also think as I said above some / a lot of that has to do with the fact that his often cruising laconically around the ground and if he is the person closer to the ball and someone is has momentum up he is more often then not going to lose the physical contest.

I think the issue now is as much about his decisions to play the percentages. For example stand stagnat and try to take possesion of the ball or get the ball out of bounds rather then make a physical contest which he is likely to lose and have the ball spill free.

I agree that there are times where he can / should attack the pill harder and it is frustraighting at the times.

I still don't think that constitutes being soft, rather an issue of not being as hard as some would like.

Fair enough, shawthing. I obviously read your post a bit too quickly. Apologies for that.