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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Peter Siddle
- Thread starter mcphee_is_a_gun
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Bucking Beads
Brownlow Medallist
He still bowled a lot of rubbish, he certainly is a trier.
He's lion hearted
Like every wicket bar the Smith one - and even then.... - Siddle's wickets were handed to him by insane batting but at least he was getting it up there for once. Now next step is to employ a third man.
Like every wicket bar the Smith one - and even then.... - Siddle's wickets were handed to him by insane batting but at least he was getting it up there for once. Now next step is to employ a third man.
- May 10, 2004
- 24,853
- 5,691
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Pistons/Hammers/Sri Lanka/The Exers
He did get some wickets with rubbish.
But then he was also unlucky with some very good deliveries.
It all evened out in the end.
But then he was also unlucky with some very good deliveries.
It all evened out in the end.
I didn't think his wickets were rubbish at all. He used the short ball perfectly IMO. Adopting a plan to primarily bowl full doesn't mean you have to expect your wickets to come from full balls. You bowl full, get the ball swinging, get the batsmen worrying about that, and then, just occasionally, you fire in a short one at the body. If the batsman's concentration isn't quite perfect, they're likely to play a rash shot, and possibly sky it. That's exactly what Siddle did, and he was well rewarded for it. It's the beauty of building pressure, and NOT trying to take a wicket with every ball.
That said, I'm not foolish enough to believe that this is finally the moment it all clicks for Siddle. It may be, but I've thought that before and been burnt. It is a good sign though.
That said, I'm not foolish enough to believe that this is finally the moment it all clicks for Siddle. It may be, but I've thought that before and been burnt. It is a good sign though.
- May 10, 2004
- 24,853
- 5,691
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Pistons/Hammers/Sri Lanka/The Exers
His wickets weren't rubbish. Just the deliveries that got them weren't exactly jaffas. But as I said, the jaffas he did bowl didn't get him the wickets they possibly should have (in fact a few of them cost him 4).
Siddle is 26 and will never give in, I wish some of the batsman had his dedication and heart.
Long term I feel if we want to build a balanced attack, it almost becomes horses for courses. On a dead or slowish wicket, Siddle is a genuine slot machine as he does very little with the ball in the air and doesn't have the pace through the air to trouble good players. He relies on the pitch for movement and can't produce natural movement off the seam like Copeland as an example.
On pitches with a little bit in them, he is ideal as he will keep banging it in, will bowl long consistent spells and will put the same effort in after tea that he puts in his first spell.
Long term I feel if we want to build a balanced attack, it almost becomes horses for courses. On a dead or slowish wicket, Siddle is a genuine slot machine as he does very little with the ball in the air and doesn't have the pace through the air to trouble good players. He relies on the pitch for movement and can't produce natural movement off the seam like Copeland as an example.
On pitches with a little bit in them, he is ideal as he will keep banging it in, will bowl long consistent spells and will put the same effort in after tea that he puts in his first spell.
I look forward to the day that Clarkey gives him more than 3 over spells...
A bit of an FYI on Johnson. And Siddle too,
For test cricket, his (Mitch Johnson) recent form (roughly the last 12 months) - going back to and including India last year leading into the Ashes.
He's got 31 wkts at 41.3
However, he got 9 for 82 at the WACA.
The tests before the WACA, he had 8 for 431 at pretty well 54.
and before last night, after the WACA,
he had another 13 for 702 at 54.
So, other than at the WACA, he's a 54 avg bowler!! Well, the post WACA stretch is now 14 at almost 55. Not good.
For comparison - since that WACA test,
Johnson......... Siddle........Copeland
Tests 7* 5* 3
Wkts 14 15 6
Wkts/test 2 3 2
Avg 54.93 27.4 37.8
Econ 3.87 3.15 2.10
S/R 85 52 108
That Johnson is considered a test quality new ball strike bowler is quite frankly astounding. And age is catching him up, I'm really not sure that there's much 'up side' about him anymore. Just, unrealised potential, both with bat and ball.
Siddle v Johnson over the last 12 months, okay, Siddle wasn't used in India, and only got the last test in SL. Siddle did get to bowl at Adelaide though which was perhaps well missed by Johnno.
Johnson......... Siddle
Tests 11* 8*
Wkts 31 22
Wkts/test 2.8 2.75
Avg 41.35 32.22
Econ 3.67 3.32
S/R 67.5 58.2
BBI 6/38 6/54
BBM 9/82 6/75
5wI 1 2
3w+ 5 4
And, it leaves me wondering just why Johnson is considered a walk up start while Siddle is always seemingly just one test from oblivion. Or, is that just the NSW cricket media who seem to think Siddle is the man to replace with any of Cummins, Starc, Copeland, Bollinger.........
Anyway, Johnson is the new ball bowler and Siddle first change (often 4th in line, such as,.....at the bowlers paradise WACA last summer).
For test cricket, his (Mitch Johnson) recent form (roughly the last 12 months) - going back to and including India last year leading into the Ashes.
He's got 31 wkts at 41.3
However, he got 9 for 82 at the WACA.
The tests before the WACA, he had 8 for 431 at pretty well 54.
and before last night, after the WACA,
he had another 13 for 702 at 54.
So, other than at the WACA, he's a 54 avg bowler!! Well, the post WACA stretch is now 14 at almost 55. Not good.
For comparison - since that WACA test,
Johnson......... Siddle........Copeland
Tests 7* 5* 3
Wkts 14 15 6
Wkts/test 2 3 2
Avg 54.93 27.4 37.8
Econ 3.87 3.15 2.10
S/R 85 52 108
That Johnson is considered a test quality new ball strike bowler is quite frankly astounding. And age is catching him up, I'm really not sure that there's much 'up side' about him anymore. Just, unrealised potential, both with bat and ball.
Siddle v Johnson over the last 12 months, okay, Siddle wasn't used in India, and only got the last test in SL. Siddle did get to bowl at Adelaide though which was perhaps well missed by Johnno.
Johnson......... Siddle
Tests 11* 8*
Wkts 31 22
Wkts/test 2.8 2.75
Avg 41.35 32.22
Econ 3.67 3.32
S/R 67.5 58.2
BBI 6/38 6/54
BBM 9/82 6/75
5wI 1 2
3w+ 5 4
And, it leaves me wondering just why Johnson is considered a walk up start while Siddle is always seemingly just one test from oblivion. Or, is that just the NSW cricket media who seem to think Siddle is the man to replace with any of Cummins, Starc, Copeland, Bollinger.........
Anyway, Johnson is the new ball bowler and Siddle first change (often 4th in line, such as,.....at the bowlers paradise WACA last summer).
They are both 1st change bowlers, but because he is a left armer they prefer Johnson so try and stick with him
Yes, agree there.
With rubbish shots would be a better way of putting it tough. They weren't exactly bowled or caught with nice edges in slips. Even if he was unlucky still went for way too many runs. 4.6 per over and that included a spell where he went 19 balls straight without a run being scored from his bowling. Way too much. Too short, too full, still the wrong length. Might not get the benefit of the opposition helping him next time.The new kid only went for 2.5 an over in a day the opposition were trying to smash us everywhere.
Hopefully Harris is back and Pattinson gets a call up for the home Tests to play with Cummins.
I was having a bit of a read through cricinfo's commentary this morning, and Siddle conceded 7 boundries from streaky shots. If any of those had of gone to hand or a third man been in his figures would have been even better and his economy rate would have been much lower. I thought he actually bowled reasonably well in what I watched.
He was swinging it and keeping it full, which caused him to over pitch some (far from alone there). Good stats to back up why is it always Siddle to go and Johnson gets free reign to help the opposition win.
He was swinging it and keeping it full, which caused him to over pitch some (far from alone there). Good stats to back up why is it always Siddle to go and Johnson gets free reign to help the opposition win.
Because if Johnson clicks, he's unplayable; probably the best in the world.
They keep him in the hope that he'll click frequently, but he never does.
Siddle was better last night, I agree, but he's shown glimpses before; will take more than one decent innings for me to believe he should be in hte side.
They keep him in the hope that he'll click frequently, but he never does.
Siddle was better last night, I agree, but he's shown glimpses before; will take more than one decent innings for me to believe he should be in hte side.
Yeah that's pretty much the basic reasoning for 'No Siddle and MJ'. I thought Siddle bowled much better than normal but really, AB and Boucher played a couple of shots akin to Hussey and Haddin last match. Still encouraging signs......and worrying. Looks like it's Siddle and MJ at the GABBA. I do believe that's Siddle first - or maybe second - 3 wicket haul since the end of the 2009 Ashes
And you know it's not a crime to get wickets through rubbish batting. Every wicket last night bar one came through that. But you know keep it in mind, or something.
5th actually....
2nd in just 3 matches this year as well
2nd in just 3 matches this year as well
I watched every ball and he was enticing Kallis to drive and Kallis took him on.
Quite a few were very very streaky, the outfield was lightening and defensive prods that beat the in-field went to the fence. Kallis hit one boundary through cover off Siddle where he tried to defend to mid on and got a leading edge, thats how quick it was.
He also got a few thick edges between slips and gully, but I'll give Kallis credit for those as I think if Clarke had put a 4th slip in, he wouldn't have played the shot
Nope. 2nd http://howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerBowlGraph.asp?PlayerID=36185th actually....
2nd in just 3 matches this year as well
Gee Ed I thought you paid close enough attention to know I'm a deep hater of Siddle and MJ's 0-1 wicket or 5-6 wicket pattern. He is getting more red lines in there
No I dont really pay that much attention, I actually thought you were one of the reasonable onesNope. 2nd http://howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerBowlGraph.asp?PlayerID=3618
Gee Ed I thought you paid close enough attention to know I'm a deep hater of Siddle and MJ's 0-1 wicket or 5-6 wicket pattern. He is getting more red lines in there
Didnt realise you meant exactly 3
along with the basic new ball problem, that's the other thing with MJ and Siddle. You can carry that 'all or nothing' stuff as the 3rd seamer. Indeed it's particularly acceptable given we have Watson. But when you put them together....the funny thing is Siddle in the shield iirc is pretty much the opposite of that. Very very good at getting 2-3-4 wicket hauls.
what an odd comment.
In the 2010/11 Ashes Siddle took two bags of 6 fer. The Gabba match including a great spell around lunch and then the hatrick later in the day.
And the lionhearted 6 fer at the MCG when the rest went missing. Yep, okay, he got taken to the cleaners at the Adelaide oval, but wasn't the only one, and taken to the cleaners in the 2nd dig at the Gabba.
In SL he only played 1 test and got a nice 4/91 to lead the attack.
At the WACA where bowlers made hay, he only got 9 and 4 overs in the two inns as Harris in the first and Johnson in the 2nd cleaned up with the new ball and then second spell.
Likewise last week at Capetown in the first dig, he only got 4 overs. Although Johnno did nothing and it was Harris and Watson that shared the spoils.
So, with his 3 fer last night, that's 4 times 3 or more in his last eight tests (11 times at the crease and this test 1 day in). Over that same time frame, Ashes to now, Johnson has doe 3 or more wkts a massive 3 times from 9 tests with 14 times at the crease. So, Siddle is one up on Johnno for 3 times less at the crease.
Note too - the last 2 and bit tests of head to head -
Siddle 66,2-13-225-8 vs Johnson 67,1-11-276-4.
Siddle manages a pass mark with avg 28, and Johnson a massive fail with avg 79 and over 4 runs an over conceded and a wicket roughly every 100 balls compared to one roughly every 50 balls.
yeah siddle took two six wicket hauls in the ashes.
and he took 14 wickets for the series. MJ actually ended up taking more. that's the whole problem with him and mj. it's all or nothing. so you only play one. and right now siddle is ahead.
and he took 14 wickets for the series. MJ actually ended up taking more. that's the whole problem with him and mj. it's all or nothing. so you only play one. and right now siddle is ahead.
I believe he is making the point that when conditions are suited to fast bowlers, Johnson (and others) always get first crack and extended spells, while Siddle stands at mid-on waiting for a chance.
Then when we are struggling on a flat track and the others have failed, Siddle gets tossed the ball and bowls 15-20 in a day and usually takes 3 or 4 wickets.
Then when we are struggling on a flat track and the others have failed, Siddle gets tossed the ball and bowls 15-20 in a day and usually takes 3 or 4 wickets.
That's probably related to the fact Siddle gets the ball to move pretty much never. Swing/seam conditions don't really suit Siddle at all. It may suit Butterworth but not him. Of course it doesn't suit MJ either but he at least gets the ball to move once in a blue moon, which is a better rate. Siddle is more bounce of pitch.
There were 3 in a row from Prince that went to third man as part of the 7.
Kallis took Siddle on and Siddle got him out, while Kallis scored quickly I think he had a big hundred in his mind the way he was batting.
That leading edge was ridiculous.
Simple stat.
All tests that Johnson and Siddle have played together. Same conditions, same opponents. All this analysis only refers to those tests - not the 23 or so Johnson has played without Siddle.
24 Tests
Johnson - 99 Wickets, avg 31.3 S/R 54.5
Siddle - 82 wickets, avg 30.2, SR 59.3
Bugger all in it. Johnson has bowled a bit more, has a better strike rate, but is obviously more expensive and has a worse average.
Both have spent more time at first or second change than new ball bowlers.
Johnson gets a higher percentage of top order batsmen - that's good. Siddle has a better record at cleaning up the tail - that's good, too.
As for batting - Johnson averages 24 (that includes those innings in SA where he was at his peak). Siddle averages 18. Siddle has a better batting total and average the last 2 years - Johnson has made a couple of 50s. it seems like his batting is like his bowling - all or nothing.
Your choice.
All tests that Johnson and Siddle have played together. Same conditions, same opponents. All this analysis only refers to those tests - not the 23 or so Johnson has played without Siddle.
24 Tests
Johnson - 99 Wickets, avg 31.3 S/R 54.5
Siddle - 82 wickets, avg 30.2, SR 59.3
Bugger all in it. Johnson has bowled a bit more, has a better strike rate, but is obviously more expensive and has a worse average.
Both have spent more time at first or second change than new ball bowlers.
Johnson gets a higher percentage of top order batsmen - that's good. Siddle has a better record at cleaning up the tail - that's good, too.
As for batting - Johnson averages 24 (that includes those innings in SA where he was at his peak). Siddle averages 18. Siddle has a better batting total and average the last 2 years - Johnson has made a couple of 50s. it seems like his batting is like his bowling - all or nothing.
Your choice.
