Picola & District NW 2018

[wouldIlietoyou]

http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4432369/culture-shocked/?cs=10

Not ideal but this is only a cash weekly award incentive not a match payment. Would the concern be as great if say a sponsor offered expensive apparel as an award to thirds players? Say Albury Tigers gave players $200 of equipment would John scream? Cash is more attractive to this age group. Guess we will have a salary cap for this next.
But I agree with Roar and I know I warned about this and also actual match payments to juniors occuring as a result of the points system.
The salary cap allows for the payment of juniors so how can John complain about this and say it's against their philosophy??

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Not ideal but this is only a cash weekly award incentive not a match payment. Would the concern be as great if say a sponsor offered expensive apparel as an award to thirds players? Say Albury Tigers gave players $200 of equipment would John scream? Cash is more attractive to this age group. Guess we will have a salary cap for this next.
But I agree with Roar and I know I warned about this and also actual match payments to juniors occuring as a result of the points system.
The salary cap allows for the payment of juniors so how can John complain about this and say it's against their philosophy??

A concerning point for me is that the points system encourages clubs to get players into their club at a younger age and get the required 40 games up to qualify as a 'HOME' . Which as explained in the article introduces them at an even earlier age to being financial rewarded for football. Unfortunately this then becomes an expectation.
I suggest the article is even more damming given the O&M and Mr O'Donohue were allegedly significant drivers of the points system and I assume were made aware of concerns about this occuring.
Also IIRC the salary cap prevents payment of any kind to juniors ?

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

A concerning point for me is that the points system encourages clubs to get players into their club at a younger age and get the required 40 games up to qualify as a 'HOME' . Which as explained in the article introduces them at an even earlier age to being financial rewarded for football. Unfortunately this then becomes an expectation.
I suggest the article is even more damming given the O&M and Mr O'Donohue were allegedly significant drivers of the points system and I assume were made aware of concerns about this occuring.
Also IIRC the salary cap prevents payment of any kind to juniors ?

In this article it's says payments to underage permitted due to concerns over discrimination?? Perhaps it didn't go ahead that way?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...9a24d4f563e89ff45be2323f48a122b?client=safari

I'm aware this is intended re underage who play seniors and is included in salary cap but it's still payments to underage players and in this case match payments and as you suggested starts the whole expectation thing.

 

[Mairjimmy 321]

Mairjimmy might know apparently need plenty of help to cut onions up so maybe recruited a few to do that

Sorry dogs can't help you with that, only been to 1 com meeting in 5 months so wouldn't know. Early starts with harvest and all.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

In this article it's says payments to underage permitted due to concerns over discrimination?? Perhaps it didn't go ahead that way?

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...9a24d4f563e89ff45be2323f48a122b?client=safari

I'm aware this is intended re underage who play seniors and is included in salary cap but it's still payments to underage players and in this case match payments and as you suggested starts the whole expectation thing.

Surely the draft proposal wasn't sent out without confirming the legality of it especially surrounding 3 of the key components :
no payments to juniors
no sign on fees
consistant penalties.
Also be very interesting to see what happens if a league legally opposes a commissions disciplinary committees decison to take points off a club or impose a penalty .
Rumour has it a league or few down town have looked into it and are extremely confident of their findings.

 

[Stormy Blues]

The payments to under 17 in this particular case tells me more about the club than the actual system. They have struggled for years to field junior teams, having only one a handful of games in both grades in the last 3 years. It is a shame that they have resorted to this. Even recruiting U/17 players wont get them the 40 games required to be classed as a 'home' player. Perhaps they should align with a JFL club?

Popped into Tocumwal last week for a look, not to many at training, not sure who or if they have picked up any. Jerilderie, maybe Josh Hillary might drag a few back with him! (is he coaching?)

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

The payments to under 17 in this particular case tells me more about the club than the actual system. They have struggled for years to field junior teams, having only one a handful of games in both grades in the last 3 years. It is a shame that they have resorted to this. Even recruiting U/17 players wont get them the 40 games required to be classed as a 'home' player. Perhaps they should align with a JFL club?

Popped into Tocumwal last week for a look, not to many at training, not sure who or if they have picked up any. Jerilderie, maybe Josh Hillary might drag a few back with him! (is he coaching?)

Two posts defending the points system?

As I said before the rules now show you can pay underage players as such don't go whinging when clubs stretch the boundaries.
The rule is you can pay underage players so therefore that is now the philosophy of AFLVic. john trying to look like he is doing the right thing by bashing this club publicly is more than a little bit hypocritical.
Perhaps if AFLvic had bothered to check the legalities first they may have thought differently about a system that will continue to create more issues than it addresses.

Oh and Stormy Blues which club were you referring to in your first post when you alleged they were worse off this year despite spending good $$??

 

[TheOrangeRoughie]

Just a different way to look at it.

Unfortunately this is the society we live in. Kids get awards, ribbons and/or certificates for anything and everything they participate in these days. They get instant gratification through the technological world we live in and that's what they want at footy clubs. That's why successful junior clubs (obviously they are ran well as well) stay that way as the kids don't get anything for finishing 3rd or worse on the ladder they want to play in the winning sides for that gratification and not with their mates as it used to be(long term gratification IMO). Kids these days can't handle losing and if they are going to lose they want to be gratified in other ways in this case cash.

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Just a different way to look at it.

Unfortunately this is the society we live in. Kids get awards, ribbons and/or certificates for anything and everything they participate in these days. They get instant gratification through the technological world we live in and that's what they want at footy clubs. That's why successful junior clubs (obviously they are ran well as well) stay that way as the kids don't get anything for finishing 3rd or worse on the ladder they want to play in the winning sides for that gratification and not with their mates as it used to be(long term gratification IMO). Kids these days can't handle losing and if they are going to lose they want to be gratified in other ways in this case cash.

I think you are right, the tech world we live in is more the challenge. By that I mean often parents won't pay for the things they want so the kids find employment to pay for their phones, phone plans, games etc. (they aren't cheap if you have teenagers you will know)

That's why I thought a cash AWARD even if on what may seem high end for being in the best players wasn't quite the evil we may at first think.

I wouldn't want to see weekly match payments to underage especially in under 17s but AFLvic cannot try and say it's against their philosophy as such I find this pretty ordinary by John.

But, I have said from day one if clubs had the $$ to spend on senior players but are now restricted due to points and cap where could they focus their spending on to guarantee on going success and numbers going into the future?

Forget this being one struggling club think about what the cashed up clubs could do. Cashed up clubs won't openly promote what they are doing which I think this club did in a hope to attract players.

So what evil do you want stopped? Guess what I doubt you will stop the spending you have simply opened the door to spending on kids.

 

[Stormy Blues]

Two posts defending the points system?

As I said before the rules now show you can pay underage players as such don't go whinging when clubs stretch the boundaries.
The rule is you can pay underage players so therefore that is now the philosophy of AFLVic. john trying to look like he is doing the right thing by bashing this club publicly is more than a little bit hypocritical.
Perhaps if AFLvic had bothered to check the legalities first they may have thought differently about a system that will continue to create more issues than it addresses.

Oh and Stormy Blues which club were you referring to in your first post when you alleged they were worse off this year despite spending good $$??

I have no issue with the points system, its been operating in some leagues, although a little different, for some time and those who have used it have no problem with it. I also have no problem with the salary cap, as long as there is enough room for clubs to move in the short term. Player payments have been getting out of hand for a long time and something had to be done to protect clubs from spending beyond there means and on players who have no real interest in there club. When its all said and done it comes down to cash payments not been declared and the taxation office what it sorted. Some O&M clubs have been issuing group certificates for 20 years, its nothing new.

In relation to my earlier post, its a all to common practice that clubs will spend more than the previous year, on players that won't stack up and therefore they end up worse then they did the year before, putting them under financial and player pressure. I am not going to get into naming clubs, as tat would be disrespectful to them, as it is only January and I maybe proven wrong.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

1. I have no issue with the points system, its been operating in some leagues, although a little different, for some time and those who have used it have no problem with it.
2. I also have no problem with the salary cap, as long as there is enough room for clubs to move in the short term. Player payments have been getting out of hand for a long time and something had to be done to protect clubs from spending beyond there means and on players who have no real interest in there club.
3. When its all said and done it comes down to cash payments not been declared and the taxation office what it sorted. Some O&M clubs have been issuing group certificates for 20 years, its nothing new.

In relation to my earlier post, its a all to common practice that clubs will spend more than the previous year, on players that won't stack up and therefore they end up worse then they did the year before, putting them under financial and player pressure. I am not going to get into naming clubs, as tat would be disrespectful to them, as it is only January and I maybe proven wrong.

1. I believe you to be totally wrong , even to the point that SA who has had a point system for the longest time and many openly acknowledge that it disadvantages smaller communities and they have altered their system recently to attempt to address the issue.
2. The salary cap has been proven numerous times to cause angst amongst competing clubs and as is always the case , clubs are accused of making massive player payments. Administrators of clubs have an obligation to not spend beyond their ability. Interesting to note the large amount of facility improvement numerous PDFNL clubs continue to undertake. I'd suggest that PDFNL on average or collectively have invested more in their facilities over the past 5-10 years than any other league in the AFL GM has ever invested over the same period. The rights of the tax office are not altered by the salary cap and nor are the obligations of clubs, if a player wants XXX amount of dollars in his pocket at weeks end that is not altered on whether tax is or isn't taken out it merely alters the cost to clubs. Clubs have being taken tax out for 20 years at least , back to when it was 48% for a 2nd income and that includes many PDFNL clubs.

You have obviously come upon bigfooty to discuss the points system and salary cap, can I suggest as a returning person to the area you do a little research into the measures the league has undertaken to be a part of the points system ensuring it's clubs are treated fair and reasonably.
It should also be noted that the sides with the average lowest player points in each of the 3 AFL GM comps within the points system in 2016, won the senior premiership and none of them were within 15 points of the points cap.
So it is a system with good intent whose introduction was rushed and therefore wrongly structured or is it just a poor idea ?
Why would it not be considered that previous junior player numbers, population, recent success, distance to major cities, have an influence on a club to attract players .
If these factors were considered , perhaps the success peaks and troughs could be capped and the system would by accepted by all and results being seen ?
Every club experiences high and low periods and that includes influx or shortage of great local home grown talent.
Do we really want to see those periods inflated whether that be highs or lows.

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

I have no issue with the points system, its been operating in some leagues, although a little different, for some time and those who have used it have no problem with it. I also have no problem with the salary cap, as long as there is enough room for clubs to move in the short term. Player payments have been getting out of hand for a long time and something had to be done to protect clubs from spending beyond there means and on players who have no real interest in there club. When its all said and done it comes down to cash payments not been declared and the taxation office what it sorted. Some O&M clubs have been issuing group certificates for 20 years, its nothing new.

In relation to my earlier post, its a all to common practice that clubs will spend more than the previous year, on players that won't stack up and therefore they end up worse then they did the year before, putting them under financial and player pressure. I am not going to get into naming clubs, as tat would be disrespectful to them, as it is only January and I maybe proven wrong.

Given you've just returned to the area after what appears to be a stint at the O&M I guess you could be forgiven for thinking that's what clubs in our league do as I'm sure that's been happening in that league. Be wrong to assume the same applies here though.
Have a look around at the facilities and you will see they all put their community first I trust you will have the respect to acknowledge this as time goes on.

 

[Stormy Blues]

Looks like I got both barrels there!! I actually did not get the forum to talk soley about the points or salary cap, it has been a topic of conversation on here since last year and just offered an opinion, which is what this forum is all about.

1. I was not talking about the SA system, both the Hume league and Central Murray have had a points system in play for a long time, although not exactly the same. Neither league have had an issue with it and as far as I know the CM league have embraced the new system and are very happy with it.
2. I agree that the PDFNL clubs have made some significant improvements to some of the grounds and fascilities, I like your passions for the league 'roar is back' but MFL clubs have really been active in this department as well and I would suggest that they would be just ahead or at the very least on a par with the PDFNL.
3. I understand what you are saying about location, numbers and so on as to what allocation should be given to specific clubs, the system is not set in stone and can be adjusted changed to suit some situations, I agree that it not perfect, but its a start and until there is enough data, history or evidence to suggest clubs should have this many or that many then a flat quota across the board seems to be the logical fit. Clubs in the MFL, GV, O&M who recruit from the PDFNL as it stands will continue to have low points because these players only attract 1 point, if the PDFNL were in the points then they may not be that low or recruit the PDFNL top young talent.

As stated just my observation, I am sorry it does not agree with yours but that's what makes football a passionate game.

As a side note, I believe Blighty have only lost a couple and picked up a few, great for the redeyes and Kirch.

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Looks like I got both barrels there!! I actually did not get the forum to talk soley about the points or salary cap, it has been a topic of conversation on here since last year and just offered an opinion, which is what this forum is all about.

1. I was not talking about the SA system, both the Hume league and Central Murray have had a points system in play for a long time, although not exactly the same. Neither league have had an issue with it and as far as I know the CM league have embraced the new system and are very happy with it.
2. I agree that the PDFNL clubs have made some significant improvements to some of the grounds and fascilities, I like your passions for the league 'roar is back' but MFL clubs have really been active in this department as well and I would suggest that they would be just ahead or at the very least on a par with the PDFNL.
3. I understand what you are saying about location, numbers and so on as to what allocation should be given to specific clubs, the system is not set in stone and can be adjusted changed to suit some situations, I agree that it not perfect, but its a start and until there is enough data, history or evidence to suggest clubs should have this many or that many then a flat quota across the board seems to be the logical fit. Clubs in the MFL, GV, O&M who recruit from the PDFNL as it stands will continue to have low points because these players only attract 1 point, if the PDFNL were in the points then they may not be that low or recruit the PDFNL top young talent.

As stated just my observation, I am sorry it does not agree with yours but that's what makes football a passionate game.

As a side note, I believe Blighty have only lost a couple and picked up a few, great for the redeyes and Kirch.

You have been busy considering we haven't had any matches or even practice matches yet and you've managed to see our grounds and MFL. I'd suggest comparing our grounds to kdfnl would be a fairer comparison though. But I'll take us being on par with major leagues any day of the week.

Again you are talking about other leagues accepting their points system but again there system is different to ours and it may actually be designed to suit them?

there are many differentials within our league and no a blanket approach won't work you already acknowledge that by saying it's not perfect. Why not put in place the pdfnl suggestions and see how things go? ive always found when organisations try to implement change in areas they have no knowledge of and refuse to listen to the concerns of the locals things always turn out how the locals predicted because whether you care to ackowledge this or not those locals just know how things will play out for them.

Still not much positive to say about pdfnl from you yet are you sure arent from AFLGM

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Looks like I got both barrels there!! I actually did not get the forum to talk soley about the points or salary cap, it has been a topic of conversation on here since last year and just offered an opinion, which is what this forum is all about.

1. I was not talking about the SA system, both the Hume league and Central Murray have had a points system in play for a long time, although not exactly the same. Neither league have had an issue with it and as far as I know the CM league have embraced the new system and are very happy with it.
2. I agree that the PDFNL clubs have made some significant improvements to some of the grounds and fascilities, I like your passions for the league 'roar is back' but MFL clubs have really been active in this department as well and I would suggest that they would be just ahead or at the very least on a par with the PDFNL.
3. I understand what you are saying about location, numbers and so on as to what allocation should be given to specific clubs, the system is not set in stone and can be adjusted changed to suit some situations, I agree that it not perfect, but its a start and until there is enough data, history or evidence to suggest clubs should have this many or that many then a flat quota across the board seems to be the logical fit. Clubs in the MFL, GV, O&M who recruit from the PDFNL as it stands will continue to have low points because these players only attract 1 point, if the PDFNL were in the points then they may not be that low or recruit the PDFNL top young talent.

As stated just my observation, I am sorry it does not agree with yours but that's what makes football a passionate game.

As a side note, I believe Blighty have only lost a couple and picked up a few, great for the redeyes and Kirch.

The data is there and it is categorical, for those who wish to consider it and aren't just looking to benefit leagues which they have an alliance with or wish to see strive , to the detriment of others, in this case PDFNL clubs.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

You have been busy considering we haven't had any matches or even practice matches yet and you've managed to see our grounds and MFL. I'd suggest comparing our grounds to kdfnl would be a fairer comparison though. But I'll take us being on par with major leagues any day of the week.

Again you are talking about other leagues accepting their points system but again there system is different to ours and it may actually be designed to suit them?

there are many differentials within our league and no a blanket approach won't work you already acknowledge that by saying it's not perfect. Why not put in place the pdfnl suggestions and see how things go? ive always found when organisations try to implement change in areas they have no knowledge of and refuse to listen to the concerns of the locals things always turn out how the locals predicted because whether you care to ackowledge this or not those locals just know how things will play out for them.

Still not much positive to say about pdfnl from you yet are you sure you aren't from AFLGM

Reckon your a little off and with those detective skills " you'd struggle to find a elephant with a blood nose in the snow ".
TIP- The little snipe alleging a club is spending big for no success again and then the final sentence including personal reference.
Is not returning to the area and is not 60 .

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Reckon your a little off and with those detective skills " you'd struggle to find a elephant with a blood nose in the snow ".
TIP- The little snipe alleging a club is spending big for no success again and then the final sentence including personal reference.
Is not returning to the area and is not 60 .

Hang on a second i bet I'm closer than you think how about I go with AFLGM wannabee then??

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Today's Shepp News reporting that the PDFNL has agreed to a deal which sees both senior votes and senior grand finals live steamed via the Shepp News Website ,for the next two years, as well as the Shepp News becoming a major sponsor of the league.

 

[mischief]

Heard tonight toc set to get star midfielder back who could it be.

 

[mixed emotions]

Looks like I got both barrels there!! I actually did not get the forum to talk soley about the points or salary cap, it has been a topic of conversation on here since last year and just offered an opinion, which is what this forum is all about.

1. I was not talking about the SA system, both the Hume league and Central Murray have had a points system in play for a long time, although not exactly the same. Neither league have had an issue with it and as far as I know the CM league have embraced the new system and are very happy with it.
2. I agree that the PDFNL clubs have made some significant improvements to some of the grounds and fascilities, I like your passions for the league 'roar is back' but MFL clubs have really been active in this department as well and I would suggest that they would be just ahead or at the very least on a par with the PDFNL.
3. I understand what you are saying about location, numbers and so on as to what allocation should be given to specific clubs, the system is not set in stone and can be adjusted changed to suit some situations, I agree that it not perfect, but its a start and until there is enough data, history or evidence to suggest clubs should have this many or that many then a flat quota across the board seems to be the logical fit. Clubs in the MFL, GV, O&M who recruit from the PDFNL as it stands will continue to have low points because these players only attract 1 point, if the PDFNL were in the points then they may not be that low or recruit the PDFNL top young talent.

As stated just my observation, I am sorry it does not agree with yours but that's what makes football a passionate game.

As a side note, I believe Blighty have only lost a couple and picked up a few, great for the redeyes and Kirch.

 

[mixed emotions]

In regard to stormy blues and the CMFL, the comp is stuffed, Kerang have won the last 5 senior flags because they have the biggest player base to call on (given that Swan Hill is split into 7 clubs), their kids can go to uni in Bendigo and come home (120kms) to play footy, the points system is aimed at killing the small off and centralising. If a club wants to have a crack, good on them, go Picola, wish Deni rovers would do that a get something on their wall after 45 years.

 

[The Possum]

Hey guys

I'm interested in watching some practice matches, so who's playing who, where and when? Also is there any new recruits that's going to excite the league?

 

[TheOrangeRoughie]

Heard tonight toc set to get star midfielder back who could it be.

Did they sign said player? If so who is it?

 

[JimmyB#3]

Did they sign said player? If so who is it?

It's Lee Warnett

 

[Stormy Blues]

It appears I am being mistaken for someone I am not. I now know who you think I am, but I can assure you I am not that person. He has no interest in Big Footy.

Lee Warnett would add valuable experience to Tocumwal, there are also a couple from Mulwala heading that way.