Analysis Pies made mistakes.

[grokq]

Once he left Collingwood we have no control how he continues to develop. How is that relevant? Melbourne is a shambles of a club having said that Dawes had Clokes measure as a leading forward earlier this season.

What else have you got to go by, other that what they do after they leave? What you imagine they might have done if they stayed?

 

[MarkT2]

You always seem to forget that we actually finished top 4 in 2012. If you were Buckley what would you have done differently in 2013?

No I don't, in fact I often mention it. It is large part of why I think we f'd up. We had a bloody good list that should have pushed a lot further. 2012 was a good coaching performance given the long term injuries we had. We fell apart from there though. It all started with the culture rubbish IMO. It has been an unmitigated disater.

 

[good4footy]

Comparisons were made between Dawes and Cloke earlier this season and Dawes was on top so those completely saying Dawes has failed at the Dees clearly don't watch enough footy.

For the love of....are you really trying to make a point by comparing Dawes to Cloke during a part of the season where he was having his worse period in his career, like that is a positive for Dawes??

You do realise you are debating with adults right?

Dawes stats have been provided and they are similar to Lynch and White - both whilst with us and since. Not sure how many times this has to be pointed out to you.

 

[jmac70]

Obviously you don't but when posters say he left for money the record needs to be set straight. When told he was no longer required get got himself a $500,000k deal for 4 years so good on him.

Also whilst a 1st round pick sounds good pick 20 is obviously at the bottom end. BTW I think Dawes would have been much better than Lynch or White (both disasters) so package that up in your analysis of pick 20 being daylight robbery.

I would argue that White is marginally better than Dawes. He is a better athlete and does offer something in the ruck. Personally I think the club should perservere with him rather then recruiting Clark.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

I'd like us to persist with White AND recruit Clark. Clark plays 2nd KPF, White plays third tall/relieving ruck like he was always meant to. Reid goes back.

White should be fighting for his spot with one of Witts or Grundy, not Clark or Reid.

 

[jmac70]

No I don't, in fact I often mention it. It is large part of why I think we f'd up. We had a bloody good list that should have pushed a lot further. 2012 was a good coaching performance given the long term injuries we had. We fell apart from there though. It all started with the culture rubbish IMO. It has been an unmitigated disater.

This is where we disagree. Eddie was very clear that certain individuals put themselves before the team in 2013. Players cannot be allowed to dictate the direction of the club. In my view Buckley is doing what needs to be done for the long term benefit of the side.

 

[Gone Critical]

Wasn't just the 21 goals in 13 rounds it was the way he was able lead up and draw men from Cloke and double back. He was a running machine that gathered plenty of handy touches up there very similar to how Nick Riewoldt played.

Yeah he was having a good season. He wasn't AA and he wasn't anything like Reiwoldt.

 

[regpies]

Can Dermie or any of the Bucks haters name 1 player who has left or been moved on and have proven us wrong by their outstanding performance?

 

[jmac70]

Dawes was a forward and destroyed by going in to the ruck. We so how bad of a footballer Keeffe was when he players in the ruck against Port in the final.

Dawes played 20% in the ruck at the most. Most of the time he was a forward, and a very poor one at that. You often like to say that injuries are no excuse for the performance of the team, and yet you are willing to make excuses for Dawes because you see his trading as evidence of Buckley's incompetence. If Dawes were still with the club we would be no better off. In fact it could be argued we would be worse off. In either scenario his trading was not that significant.

 

[good4footy]

No I don't, in fact I often mention it. It is large part of why I think we f'd up. We had a bloody good list that should have pushed a lot further. 2012 was a good coaching performance given the long term injuries we had. We fell apart from there though. It all started with the culture rubbish IMO. It has been an unmitigated disater.

2010- premiers
2011 - grand final
2012 top 4
2013 top 6

Can you honestly say that we should have pushed further than the above with the same players? We would be St.Kilda if we did that or somehow would have defied history.

The players that people are bemoaning having left couldn't get the job done again in 2011 / 2012 - why we would keep going with them. We had a crack for 4 years - time to do exactly what we have done and reload.

Now there can be an argument whether we should have gone as hard with the list change but I am personally fine with the approach. Failures within the club in other areas such as our fitness department have helped pushed us back further than I am sure the club wanted to go this year.

 

[Starcevich90]

Its general knowledge he was told his spot was "not guaranteed" ie he needed to fight for his spot.
BUT I'll wait for the avalanche of support from other posters here to confirm your fanciful idea that Dawes was told "he wasn't part of our plans".
I suspect that you will be corrected far more than supported.

So you're backing away from your Dawes "greed" comment I gather? Good.
I don't really care who supports or opposes my view of his exit, it's very clear in my mind what happened.

 

[mike123]

Need also to factor in that if Leon had accepted his contract Macaffer was out the door. Leon changed his mind after most contracts were done and there was very little left. You can make an argument that Caff has been more important to the side going forward from 2011 than Leon would have been for another season or 2.

Maccaffer's role is overrated

 

[MagpieJoel]

Dawes was a forward and destroyed by going in to the ruck. We so how bad of a footballer Keeffe was when he players in the ruck against Port in the final.

He had one good season with us. One.

He has had no good seasons since (due to injury or form). But continue arguing....

 

[mike123]

All this talk about Leon Davis is very interesting. My view is that while he was all Australian in 2011, that was while he was playing in a backline of a team that finished with year with a percentage of 170. Leon Davis may have been exciting and a good kick, but I can't think of a time where he stood up against a hard, physical team. Year in, year out he underperformed against the better opposition teams.

Not a big loss

His finals series was great in 2011

 

[grokq]

His finals series was great in 2011

Apart from being owned by Varcoe in Q1 of the grand final

 

[mike123]

Apart from being owned by Varcoe in Q1 of the grand final

The first goal was poor rucking from Jolly not Davis's fault the second goal was from Thomas trying to take a speccy and going to ground.

 

[MarkT2]

This is where we disagree. Eddie was very clear that certain individuals put themselves before the team in 2013. Players cannot be allowed to dictate the direction of the club. In my view Buckley is doing what needs to be done for the long term benefit of the side.

Eddie was very clear in justifing what was done after the fact in light of the results and the pressure that brought. Nothing new there. Yes we disagree. The results are still the results.

 

[jmac70]

Eddie was very clear in justifing what was done after the fact in light of the results and the pressure that brought. Nothing new there. Yes we disagree. The results are still the results.

So basically you are calling Eddie a liar.

 

[MarkT2]

2010- premiers
2011 - grand final
2012 top 4
2013 top 6

Can you honestly say that we should have pushed further than the above with the same players? We would be St.Kilda if we did that or somehow would have defied history.

Pushed further - yes. With the same players - no, that never happens. Also we finished 8th in 2013.
Couldn't we be Geelong or Hawthorn though rather than a club that has won 1 flag in over 100 years by one point and that we beat no with standing having a younger list and a lot more yuong talent?

 

[grokq]

The first goal was poor rucking from Jolly not Davis's fault the second goal was from Thomas trying to take a speccy and going to ground.

The first one, my recollection, was Leon being a mile away from Varcoe who seized on the opportunity when the ball came his way. Poor defence. The second I'll have to take your word for since i can't bring myself to watch the game again. I was at the game so not sure what I missed on TV.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Maccaffer's role is overrated

Given the way gun opposition mids have killed us over the years I'd say his role is underrated.

 

[MarkT2]

So basically you are calling Eddie a liar.

FMD or course he lies if that's your definition of lying. It's justification. It happens all the time and Eddie deos it in his sleep. He's hardly alone though.

 

[Jasper84]

So you're backing away from your Dawes "greed" comment I gather? Good.
I don't really care who supports or opposes my view of his exit, it's very clear in my mind what happened.

You are clearly speaking in defence of Dawes and Wellingham, so can you give me a straight answer? If it was offered would you trade them for a first round pick?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He had one good season with us. One.

He has had no good seasons since (due to injury or form). But continue arguing....

Actually he had a late start in 2010 so its probably more fair to say he had 2/3 of a good season with us.

 

[MarkT2]

Given the way gun opposition mids have killed us over the years I'd say his role is underrated.

His role is under rated unless you have a midfield full of guns and the opposition have to do all the tagging. That's basically us in 2010 but sure as hell now we need a tagger. Even the Geelong flag sides had Lyng to call on when needed although he was always a lot more than just a tagger.