What else have you got to go by, other that what they do after they leave? What you imagine they might have done if they stayed?
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What else have you got to go by, other that what they do after they leave? What you imagine they might have done if they stayed?
No I don't, in fact I often mention it. It is large part of why I think we f'd up. We had a bloody good list that should have pushed a lot further. 2012 was a good coaching performance given the long term injuries we had. We fell apart from there though. It all started with the culture rubbish IMO. It has been an unmitigated disater.
For the love of....are you really trying to make a point by comparing Dawes to Cloke during a part of the season where he was having his worse period in his career, like that is a positive for Dawes??
You do realise you are debating with adults right?
Dawes stats have been provided and they are similar to Lynch and White - both whilst with us and since. Not sure how many times this has to be pointed out to you.
jmac70
On the porch
I would argue that White is marginally better than Dawes. He is a better athlete and does offer something in the ruck. Personally I think the club should perservere with him rather then recruiting Clark.
I'd like us to persist with White AND recruit Clark. Clark plays 2nd KPF, White plays third tall/relieving ruck like he was always meant to. Reid goes back.
White should be fighting for his spot with one of Witts or Grundy, not Clark or Reid.
White should be fighting for his spot with one of Witts or Grundy, not Clark or Reid.
jmac70
On the porch
This is where we disagree. Eddie was very clear that certain individuals put themselves before the team in 2013. Players cannot be allowed to dictate the direction of the club. In my view Buckley is doing what needs to be done for the long term benefit of the side.
Gone Critical
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Yeah he was having a good season. He wasn't AA and he wasn't anything like Reiwoldt.
jmac70
On the porch
Dawes played 20% in the ruck at the most. Most of the time he was a forward, and a very poor one at that. You often like to say that injuries are no excuse for the performance of the team, and yet you are willing to make excuses for Dawes because you see his trading as evidence of Buckley's incompetence. If Dawes were still with the club we would be no better off. In fact it could be argued we would be worse off. In either scenario his trading was not that significant.
2010- premiers
2011 - grand final
2012 top 4
2013 top 6
Can you honestly say that we should have pushed further than the above with the same players? We would be St.Kilda if we did that or somehow would have defied history.
The players that people are bemoaning having left couldn't get the job done again in 2011 / 2012 - why we would keep going with them. We had a crack for 4 years - time to do exactly what we have done and reload.
Now there can be an argument whether we should have gone as hard with the list change but I am personally fine with the approach. Failures within the club in other areas such as our fitness department have helped pushed us back further than I am sure the club wanted to go this year.
Starcevich90
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So you're backing away from your Dawes "greed" comment I gather? Good.
I don't really care who supports or opposes my view of his exit, it's very clear in my mind what happened.
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Maccaffer's role is overrated
He had one good season with us. One.
He has had no good seasons since (due to injury or form). But continue arguing....
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His finals series was great in 2011
Apart from being owned by Varcoe in Q1 of the grand final
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The first goal was poor rucking from Jolly not Davis's fault the second goal was from Thomas trying to take a speccy and going to ground.
Eddie was very clear in justifing what was done after the fact in light of the results and the pressure that brought. Nothing new there. Yes we disagree. The results are still the results.
jmac70
On the porch
So basically you are calling Eddie a liar.
Pushed further - yes. With the same players - no, that never happens. Also we finished 8th in 2013.
Couldn't we be Geelong or Hawthorn though rather than a club that has won 1 flag in over 100 years by one point and that we beat no with standing having a younger list and a lot more yuong talent?
The first one, my recollection, was Leon being a mile away from Varcoe who seized on the opportunity when the ball came his way. Poor defence. The second I'll have to take your word for since i can't bring myself to watch the game again. I was at the game so not sure what I missed on TV.
Given the way gun opposition mids have killed us over the years I'd say his role is underrated.
FMD or course he lies if that's your definition of lying. It's justification. It happens all the time and Eddie deos it in his sleep. He's hardly alone though.
Jasper84
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You are clearly speaking in defence of Dawes and Wellingham, so can you give me a straight answer? If it was offered would you trade them for a first round pick?
Actually he had a late start in 2010 so its probably more fair to say he had 2/3 of a good season with us.
His role is under rated unless you have a midfield full of guns and the opposition have to do all the tagging. That's basically us in 2010 but sure as hell now we need a tagger. Even the Geelong flag sides had Lyng to call on when needed although he was always a lot more than just a tagger.
