Analysis Pies made mistakes.

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

if you want to educate yourselves, take the team that played for Port last weekend and see what their draft position was. I did this exercise and it was an eye-opener. I knew about the high profile draft picks but there are a lot of low profile players at Port who were first round draft picks. Even the players that they have picked up like Schulz....I didnt realise he was such a high draft pick. Collingwood is trying to make fillet steak out of off-cuts. If you want to just continue to complain about our mistakes, go right ahead...

Excellent

Reposted to The Collingwood Blog

 

[Robroy22]

15 games...95 kicks...51 handballs....12 goals.....obviously he spent most of his time coaching Sav and didnt have much time for anything else..

So in 1995 (when Derm was alongside him) Sav suddenly goes from a 60 goal a year forward to a 93 goal a year FF?
Next three years after Derm left guess what? Sav goes back to 60's and 70's.
Derm was a beat up old man (think Qstick) in 1995 but his brain was as good as ever and he taught Sav and other kids a lot in his short time at the club.
Were you there?

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

So in 1995 (when Derm was alongside him) Sav suddenly goes from a 60 goal a year forward to a 93 goal a year FF?
Next three years after Derm left guess what? Sav goes back to 60's and 70's.
Derm was a beat up old man (think Qstick) in 1995 but his brain was as good as ever and he taught Sav and other kids a lot in his short time at the club.
Were you there?

Astute and accurate comment.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Love the historical revisionism that goes on. We didn't decide to do a full rebuild until the end of last year. In 2012, it was able spreading our talent age spread by moving on players we deemed replaceable and getting overs for them. Wellingham was very replaceable and Dawes had gone backwards at a great rate. Neither has shown us to be wrong yet.

Last year was when we cut deep after being more honest with ourselves about where we were. Thomas and Shaw were the only ones who still had something to give, but in Thomas's case we'd have been dumb to match Carlton's offer. Shaw was the only voluntary surrender of a player who had something left to give that year and we got Adams who will be crucial to us next year onwards.

Feels like the 50th time I've written that.

 

[Good_Old]

Love the historical revisionism that goes on. We didn't decide to do a full rebuild until the end of last year. In 2012, it was able spreading our talent age spread by moving on players we deemed replaceable and getting overs for them. Wellingham was very replaceable and Dawes had gone backwards at a great rate. Neither has shown us to be wrong yet.

Last year was when we cut deep after being more honest with ourselves about where we were. Thomas and Shaw were the only ones who still had something to give, but in Thomas's case we'd have been dumb to match Carlton's offer. Shaw was the only voluntary surrender of a player who had something left to give that year and we got Adams who will be crucial to us next year onwards.

Feels like the 50th time I've written that.

Say that again.

 

[Vicky Park]

Feels like the 50th time I've written that.

Yep, its often Groundhog Day around here.

Never mind. I haven't much to contribute to this thread, except to have a crack at Dermie. A great footballer, a successful footballer, and a sometimes incomprehensible commentator, but his main interest for me is to check out his latest hair do. Changes his 'look' on a nearly weekly basis.

 

[Krueger]

Brereton is 100% correct. We just havnt rebuilt the list we have absolutely gutted it! Whilst player turnover in inevitable we have gone far beyond the norm. Who cares is the coach is a good media performer or not! The aim is to win games of football and to have the team playing as a cohesive unit which has been a total disaster.

The only thing wrong with our culture was we had individuals and not robots as Buckley would have liked. Simple solution? Get rid of them because man management skills are non existant. The only culture Buckley has created is a losing culture and one of absolutely no loyalty to any player. This entire exercise is purely for the ambitions of 1 man and to the detrimant of the club.

Buckley must be the greatest speaker of all time. He bluffed his way to the coaching position with his rhetoric and idealism and fooled so many with his so called abilities. Make every excuse under the sun but the facts are we are years away from success at minimum and I cannot wait until this whole farcical exercise is over with.

 

[jmac70]

It would be great if this thread could be reserved for all those posters who want to concentrate on the past. Let the rest of us who understand the current situation have discussions without this topic being used to derail threads. What do you think 76woodenspooners?

 

[Robroy22]

It would be great if this thread could be reserved for all those posters who want to concentrate on the past. Let the rest of us who understand the current situation have discussions without this topic being used to derail threads. What do you think 76woodenspooners?

I think thats a positive step

 

[mike123]

I haven't listened but I'm going to assume the following names were mentioned;

Jolly
Didak
Thomas
Shaw
Davis
Brown

Now only Shaw and Thomas hadn't hit the end after 2011, in fact Didak, Jolly, Brown, and Davis were all gone by end of 2011 with their ability to influence (Davis one more year maybe).

That's not a witch hunt on your list it's natural attrition

The problem is we didn't have replacements for them

 

[mike123]

Love the historical revisionism that goes on. We didn't decide to do a full rebuild until the end of last year. In 2012, it was able spreading our talent age spread by moving on players we deemed replaceable and getting overs for them. Wellingham was very replaceable and Dawes had gone backwards at a great rate. Neither has shown us to be wrong yet.

Last year was when we cut deep after being more honest with ourselves about where we were. Thomas and Shaw were the only ones who still had something to give, but in Thomas's case we'd have been dumb to match Carlton's offer. Shaw was the only voluntary surrender of a player who had something left to give that year and we got Adams who will be crucial to us next year onwards.

Feels like the 50th time I've written that.

Then why haven't we replaced him yet?

 

[jmac70]

I haven't listened to Dermie but in HINDSIGHT I believe the succession plan was a mistake. Like almost every other poster I supported the decision at the time but I did not consider how much the personal feelings of those involved would influence the success of the plan. I do not subscribe to the theory that the succession plan was the reason we won the 2010 premiership. I believe that we still would have won had Malthouse simply been re-signed and we may well have won the 2011 premiership also.

The difference between my view and some others is that I think it is unfair to judge Buckley's performance by comparing where we are now to where we were in 2010. It is very probable that a number of players did not support the replacement of Malthouse and given these feelings it is remarkable that we made the preliminary finals in 2012. In my opinion Buckley had no choice but to rebuild the playing personel and whilst some errors have been made I believe he has the club on the right path. Given our age profile it will be a big achievement to make the finals next year and it is likely we may miss again. I am prepared for this because I support Buckley's vision for the future. Buckley will see out his contract and I would be shocked if he is not given a further 3 years.

I don't have an issue with people who want to discuss this topib but please can we stop using it as a reason why Buckley should be sacked?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

FFS.

Jolly started jumping again
Dids was a spring chicken
Dawes was a gun
Daisy was worth 700 grand
L. Brown, Johnno and Tarrant didn't retire
Shaw wasn't a dick and didnt realise that him and his mates bitching was destabilising.
Wellingham was a superstar
Leon said he'd definitely play in 2012 after the 2011 GF
Krak, Caff, Brown and a host of others didnt have season ending injuries
Reid has played a shit load of games in the last two years

Yeah that's right, TG, Kreuger, Dermie and co....all of the above occurred in your dreams.

 

[dansa]

It would be great if this thread could be reserved for all those posters who want to concentrate on the past. Let the rest of us who understand the current situation have discussions without this topic being used to derail threads. What do you think 76woodenspooners?

A separate thread? I'd prefer two separate boards.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Might actually want to listen to what he said to those commenting that haven't done so. If you live in the Collingwood bubble it might actually give you some perspective or another side of what's happened down there in past few seasons.

 

[Markfs]

So in 1995 (when Derm was alongside him) Sav suddenly goes from a 60 goal a year forward to a 93 goal a year FF?
Next three years after Derm left guess what? Sav goes back to 60's and 70's.
Derm was a beat up old man (think Qstick) in 1995 but his brain was as good as ever and he taught Sav and other kids a lot in his short time at the club.
Were you there?

well evidently "Dermie" taught them so much that Sav and the kids forgot all this wondrous knowledge when "Dermie" went into retirement to tell us about holiday locations. Maybe he overloaded them with all those theories that he loves to go on and on about..

and as for the three years after 1995, guess what? Leigh Matthews was replaced by Tony Shaw. I know that's a minor change compared to the great man retiring, but it might have had some impact on the Sav...

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Might actually want to listen to what he said to those commenting that haven't done so. If you live in the Collingwood bubble it might actually give you some perspective or another side of what's happened down there in past few seasons.

Could argue that you are well entrenched in the bubble where the ghosts of the past, who still think they're alive are haunting you.
The ghostly whispers of Dids and Jolly saying " we weren't done"
The ghostly whisper of Daisy saying "I was worth 700"
The ghostly whispers of Brown and Tarrant saying " we didnt retire, we're playing in the Magoos"
The ghostly whisper of Leon saying " I did get more cash at West Coast but was too heart broken to take it"
The ghostly whisper of Heater saying "I love Bucks, I was a good boy."
Plenty more ghostly whispers but I think you get the hint. Give up.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Could argue that you are well entrenched in the bubble where the ghosts of the past, who still think they're alive are haunting you.
The ghostly whispers of Dids and Jolly saying " we weren't done"
The ghostly whisper of Daisy saying "I was worth 700"
The ghostly whispers of Brown and Tarrant saying " we didnt retire, we're playing in the Magoos"
The ghostly whisper of Leon saying " I did get more cash at West Coast but was too heart broken to take it"
The ghostly whisper of Heater saying "I love Bucks, I was a good boy."
Plenty more ghostly whispers but I think you get the hint. Give up.

Don't think you can really include Leon in all this. He made AA in 2011 and was sensational all year, club turned around and told him to take a pay cut if he wanted to stay. That's bullshit.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Then why haven't we replaced him yet?

We have. His name is Broomhead. He's taken a little longer to come on than we hoped because he got glandular fever, but he's an upgrade on Sharrod. Plus we got Clint Young to keep tide us over for the couple of years it we knew it would take Broomy to develop.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Don't think you can really include Leon in all this. He made AA in 2011 and was sensational all year, club turned around and told him to take a pay cut if he wanted to stay. That's bullshit.

Leon was treated like crap. Didn't get the send off he truly deserved. Should've been chaired off the ground at the end of 2012 or 2013.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Don't think you can really include Leon in all this. He made AA in 2011 and was sensational all year, club turned around and told him to take a pay cut if he wanted to stay. That's bullshit.

Plenty of cases where pay cuts have been taken by greater players in the league than Leon. He had been looked after for a decade under Mick. I don't know what the pay cut was worth but if what you say is true, then perhaps Leon put himself before the club.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Then why haven't we replaced him yet?

Josh Thomas > Wellingham

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Plenty of cases where pay cuts have been taken by greater players in the league than Leon. He had been looked after for a decade under Mick. I don't know what the pay cut was worth but if what you say is true, then perhaps Leon put himself before the club.

He was asked to take a 150k cut, after an AA year where his influence and skill was astonishing. It was an insult.
Should have been offered a pay rise to stay. It was the beginning of our downfall.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

He was asked to take a 150k cut, after an AA year where his influence and skill was astonishing. It was an insult.
Should have been offered a pay rise to stay. It was the beginning of our downfall.

The 30% story hasn't been confirmed. For we all know, it could be a journalist making shit up and they don't do that very often. I don't even think Leon has confirmed that.
The beginning of the downfall would have meant not making top 4 in 2012. Don't overstate the Leon case as the catalyst for 'our downfall'.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

The 30% story hasn't been confirmed. For we all know, it could be a journalist making shit up and they don't do that very often. I don't even think Leon has confirmed that.
The beginning of the downfall would have meant not making top 4 in 2012. Don't overstate the Leon case as the catalyst for 'our downfall'.

It's common knowledge and has never been disputed.
Was the beginning of buckleys poor list management decisions.
We made top4 in 2012 but we were a shadow of 10/11 team.