Analysis Pies made mistakes.

[rustyg70]

Don't think you can really include Leon in all this. He made AA in 2011 and was sensational all year, club turned around and told him to take a pay cut if he wanted to stay. That's bullshit.

That's because he told the club that 2011 was to be his last year.
So the club signed up the other players in the team with the knowledge that Davis was retiring.
For him to do a back flip and declare he wanted to go on, threw a spanner in the works with the salary cap.

 

[Markfs]

Might actually want to listen to what he said tocti those commenting that haven't done so. If you live in the Collingwood bubble it might actually give you some perspective or another side of what's happened down there in past few seasons.

I know what you're saying. It goes back a couple of days when you were saying that you didnt have strong feelings for the club and the players anymore. It probably does give you an objective opinion of the situation, compared to those on the board that have strong feelings for the club. It also explains why you might identify with Dermott who sees himself as an objective analyst who has always been a bit of gun for hire.... changing clubs etc to suit his needs and ambitions. I suppose when more people in the forum give up on the club, they might see your perspective...

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

That's because he told the club that 2011 was to be his last year.
So the club signed up the other players in the team with the knowledge that Davis was retiring.
For him to do a back flip and declare he wanted to go on, threw a spanner in the works with the salary cap.

That's utter rubbish! Lol

 

[good4footy]

That's because he told the club that 2011 was to be his last year.
So the club signed up the other players in the team with the knowledge that Davis was retiring.
For him to do a back flip and declare he wanted to go on, threw a spanner in the works with the salary cap.

Beat me to it - thanks for your post.

Club were in dialogue a number of times on his decision to retire and then completed contracts with others when assured. Offered him what they had left.

More revisionism by the throng to suit their whinging needs.

 

[rustyg70]

That's utter rubbish! Lol

OK then.
Please enlighten us all on how it went down then.

 

[Krueger]

I haven't listened to Dermie but in HINDSIGHT I believe the succession plan was a mistake. Like almost every other poster I supported the decision at the time but I did not consider how much the personal feelings of those involved would influence the success of the plan. I do not subscribe to the theory that the succession plan was the reason we won the 2010 premiership. I believe that we still would have won had Malthouse simply been re-signed and we may well have won the 2011 premiership also.

The difference between my view and some others is that I think it is unfair to judge Buckley's performance by comparing where we are now to where we were in 2010. It is very probable that a number of players did not support the replacement of Malthouse and given these feelings it is remarkable that we made the preliminary finals in 2012. In my opinion Buckley had no choice but to rebuild the playing personel and whilst some errors have been made I believe he has the club on the right path. Given our age profile it will be a big achievement to make the finals next year and it is likely we may miss again. I am prepared for this because I support Buckley's vision for the future. Buckley will see out his contract and I would be shocked if he is not given a further 3 years.

I don't have an issue with people who want to discuss this topib but please can we stop using it as a reason why Buckley should be sacked?

Ok so you now believe the succession plan was a mistake. Good to see you realise that it probably cost a premiership or two.

Do you honestly believe given what you have seen over the last 3 years that Buckley is doing a good job? Is he the best man for the job currently? Why on Earth would you wait another 3-4 years to see if he turns it around and becomes a good coach? I mean the club is not a personal playground for anyone to see if they eventually come good? If so lets hire Eddy the Eagle and throw him at FF for 5-6 years to see if he can make it.

We have shown zero improvement in any area in 3 years and are going backwards. Look at Melbourne yeh sure they are a basket case but you can see they have improved under Roos.

 

[Bay Pie]

Then why haven't we replaced him yet?

Our VFL is the equivalent of the Peel thunder. Pick a kid playing there and he's the one who replaced Wellingham.

 

[Bay Pie]

Did Derm mention why we didn't win the flag in 2011? I mean, we had the messiah as coach and we had all these guns that no one wanted traded but we didn't get the job done.

It's really confusing that our best chance to win another flag after 2010, was 2011 but Bucks wasn't coach then and all these guns that have been traded/retired/delisted/let go were still around.

Now, don't mention how the players, that we have moved on etc, have performed since or other clubs willingness to pick these guys up nor the performance of the messiah since he's come back. 11-11 & 7-15. Hmmmmmm.

We could have remained competitive, like Geelong, without threatening to win the flag or we could have done like St.Kilda and waited until they were shite with their existing players then trade/let go players a couple of years to late resulting in worse draft picks than if they had have assessed their list more accurately a little earlier.

While there are many who can assess our list without rose-coloured glasses, there are still a few who think we had all these guns, despite the fact their form since leaving has shown their actual playing ability now.

Sigh....can't be long now that your serial whiners take a holiday from BF. They appear to have little interest in player signings, drafting etc. that's all a little too 'positive' for them.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

OK then.
Please enlighten us all on how it went down then.

Ok then I will. For starters Leon was on the veterans list so only half of his salary counted towards the cap so it's not like paying him a a decent wage was going to tip the cap over. Leigh brown had just retired and other players were becoming eligible for the veterans discount on cap. The insulting offer was put to him early in the trade period, the club knowing that he wanted to return to family interstate and would only stay for a fair contract. The club made it clear that was all they were prepared to offer and thought they could smooth talk him in to staying on a C-grader salary. He was so upset by it he went home to Perth, refused to speak to Pert or Walsh and left his manager to find a fair deal or not return. The club let him go and Walsh and Pert made out like it was his decision.

 

[mike123]

Our VFL is the equivalent of the Peel thunder. Pick a kid playing there and he's the one who replaced Wellingham.

I mean who has replaced Wellingham's role ffs

 

[mike123]

We have. His name is Broomhead. He's taken a little longer to come on than we hoped because he got glandular fever, but he's an upgrade on Sharrod. Plus we got Clint Young to keep tide us over for the couple of years it we knew it would take Broomy to develop.

That's Dais's replacement. Clint Young lol.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

No, Freeman is Daisy's replacement. And yeah, like all our free agent, Young was a purely stop gap measure to get us through a period where we thought we probably wouldn't be competitive for the flag and our kids developed. They cost us nothing, and had minimal expectations attached to them apart from be ok AFL players.

 

[Markfs]

Brereton is 100% correct. We just havnt rebuilt the list we have absolutely gutted it! Whilst player turnover in inevitable we have gone far beyond the norm. Who cares is the coach is a good media performer or not! The aim is to win games of football and to have the team playing as a cohesive unit which has been a total disaster.

The only thing wrong with our culture was we had individuals and not robots as Buckley would have liked. Simple solution? Get rid of them because man management skills are non existant. The only culture Buckley has created is a losing culture and one of absolutely no loyalty to any player. This entire exercise is purely for the ambitions of 1 man and to the detrimant of the club.

Buckley must be the greatest speaker of all time. He bluffed his way to the coaching position with his rhetoric and idealism and fooled so many with his so called abilities. Make every excuse under the sun but the facts are we are years away from success at minimum and I cannot wait until this whole farcical exercise is over with.

Total agreement with this one. We absolutely gutted the team in the last few years. I can see you're upset with how things have gone, and so am I, but all is not lost.

Alan Didak played a few games with North Heidelberg this year and reports are he hasn't lost any of his brilliance. The Bulldogs are a crack unit in the second division of the Northern League and evidently Dids put on a clinic. I think we could get him back if we squeeze the salary cap.

Taz is even better placed. He's playing Divi 1 in the same League. He's a big unit according to the coach and should slot back into full-back nicely.

As we know Jolls has been keeping himself fit doing some house renovations and should be ready to come back in and take over first ruck.

Leigh Brown is starring for Heyfield in the North Gippsland league. He should be ripe for next year.....I cant wait to get him back.

Ben Johnson was playing with Eastern Football League division two side Doncaster Sharks. We might have to give him a few games in the VFL to sharpen his skills but he should be fine.

I'm sure we could get more of these guys back and make a big run for the 2015 premiership....

 

[mike123]

Josh Thomas > Wellingham

Josh Thomas and Wellingham are different types of players. That comparison is just stupid.

Besides in terms of kicking Wellingham >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Josh Thomas

 

[Jasper84]

Ok then I will. For starters Leon was on the veterans list so only half of his salary counted towards the cap so it's not like paying him a a decent wage was going to tip the cap over. Leigh brown had just retired and other players were becoming eligible for the veterans discount on cap. The insulting offer was put to him early in the trade period, the club knowing that he wanted to return to family interstate and would only stay for a fair contract. The club made it clear that was all they were prepared to offer and thought they could smooth talk him in to staying on a C-grader salary. He was so upset by it he went home to Perth, refused to speak to Pert or Walsh and left his manager to find a fair deal or not return. The club let him go and Walsh and Pert made out like it was his decision.

So why didn't anyone else pick him up?

 

[ipswichpies]

The club and Buckley may have made mistakes but Malthouse made a number of mistakes in his final season as coach and he was as big a reason that we were unable to go btb as any.

Most of the players we have delisted or retired their careers were over as Collingwood players and the players we have traded we picked up better options for the future anyway.

Maybe if Jolly had been able to compete a little better against Ottens we may not be having this discussion again,but he could not and he was not able to anytime after 2011 he was finished and he was probably the only 1 who did not or would not accept it.

Of the others we traded out the only 1 have any sympathy for is Shaw but he signed his own papers and Dawes may still be at the club if Jolly had stood up.

There have been mistakes made Buckley and his team but list management is definitely not 1 of them we were going have to make changes whoever was coaching but whoever that may have been would not have handled it any better than Buckley.

I think some of our selections last season were very bad a couple of times very baffling and also our handling of injuries needs looking at but not our list management.

As for Jolly having a crack at Buckley that is a given but I am very satisfied to see our youngsters at least able to jump in ruck contests,I defy anyone to say Jolly was not finished the same with Didak and the same with Davis no one picked him up even if he was an AA defender.

 

[Jasper84]

I mean who has replaced Wellingham's role ffs

Buddy hired a chauffeur.

 

[Bay Pie]

I mean who has replaced Wellingham's role ffs

Easy big guy just having some fun in a rather morbid thread. I would think Broomy will eventually have that role as he has some very similar attributes to the ones Wellingham possessed when he was with us.. The wing/part time mid/part time forward has been shared among many players. I couldn't single one out.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

And who would you rather have now: Broomhead or Wellingham?

 

[rustyg70]

Ok then I will. For starters Leon was on the veterans list so only half of his salary counted towards the cap so it's not like paying him a a decent wage was going to tip the cap over. Leigh brown had just retired and other players were becoming eligible for the veterans discount on cap. The insulting offer was put to him early in the trade period, the club knowing that he wanted to return to family interstate and would only stay for a fair contract. The club made it clear that was all they were prepared to offer and thought they could smooth talk him in to staying on a C-grader salary. He was so upset by it he went home to Perth, refused to speak to Pert or Walsh and left his manager to find a fair deal or not return. The club let him go and Walsh and Pert made out like it was his decision.

It WAS his decision not to sign.
He decided to leave, he had a contract put in front off him and he did not sign it.
It must be hard to have to struggle through life playing footy and survive on $250000 a year (or what ever he was offered).

 

[ipswichpies]

And who would you rather have now: Broomhead or Wellingham?

Broomhead will be a very good player for the club for a long time injury permitting he is capable of 1.5 to 2 goals a game,he reads the play very well and when he fills out he will go through the middle and he also has a bit of ticker.

Whoever we traded to get him it might be a very good move and one you would do over and over again,his ball use is fine as is his kicking whether at goal or field no worries there either also his decision making is not bad for a 20 yo in his first games.Win win all around as far trading him in.

 

[Jasper84]

Did we make a mistake using our first round pick on Krakour?Could we have picked him later in the draft? I wouldn't mind any of Parker, Darling or Howe in the side right now. Not to mention nearly every player selected between the Krakour and Fasolo picks is still playing AFL. My point is it is really easy to identify potential mistakes with the luxury of hindsight.

 

[ipswichpies]

We did alright out of the Krakour trade because we scored Elliott in that and the way he is shaping up could play for a decade and no bullshit into the bargain definitely a win win trade.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Did we make a mistake using our first round pick on Krakour?Could we have picked him later in the draft? I wouldn't mind any of Parker, Darling or Howe in the side right now. Not to mention nearly every player selected between the Krakour and Fasolo picks is still playing AFL. My point is it is really easy to identify potential mistakes with the luxury of hindsight.

Krak was the reason we got to the grand final

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

It WAS his decision not to sign.
He decided to leave, he had a contract put in front off him and he did not sign it.
It must be hard to have to struggle through life playing footy and survive on $250000 a year (or what ever he was offered).

Leon was playing some of the best football in the whole competition, let alone at the club.
Far lesser players were getting paid good coin.
So when they turn around and say you aren't worth shit and lose him whose fault is it?
Poor management, and the start of our downfall.