Player X or Player Y

[docker_champ29]

Thought I'd start this up again. Basically the person above you asks you who they should choose between two players. You choose for them and explain why then put your own two players on the table for the next person to answer.

I'll Kick things off...

Brett Deledio or Jack Grimes + about 30k

Brett Deledio doesn't seem to have much room for improvement if he continues to play down back. Grimes has moore scoring potential. But Deledio is one of the most durable players in the comp and Grimes is one of the least.

 

[Buddyman]

Personally neither, but it all depends on Grimes's preseason he can average 95+ but it means taking a risk with his 'injury prone' body. I have an uncommon view on injuries that I will not take it as much of a negative if such n such is injury prone. If he has a good ps, get on I say. Just personal preference. Deledio I can not see improving much and in my view will be one who you can get in cheaply later in the season for about a 90 average. Just my 2 cents anyways...
Ahhh Vince v Jack

 

[Off Tap]

Thought I'd start this up again. Basically the person above you asks you who they should choose between two players. You choose for them and explain why then put your own two players on the table for the next person to answer.

I'll Kick things off...

Brett Deledio or Jack Grimes + about 30k

Brett Deledio doesn't seem to have much room for improvement if he continues to play down back. Grimes has moore scoring potential. But Deledio is one of the most durable players in the comp and Grimes is one of the least.

I've had both over the last 2 years and won't be going back there again. Grimes in 2009 was a good cash cow, that was all.

Better value elsewhere for Deledio but things might change this year with a couple of young blokes coming through to help him.

 

[archiemoses]

You guys are assuming that deledio is a back right?

If he is a back, then I think Deledio wins hands down.

More durable, more consistent and with an improving midfield can improve his output.

 

[Activ8]

Vince v Jack

I'll have a go.

Vince proved in 09 that he has the potential to reach elite status. My concern with him is the departure of the retired Crows midfielder stars. With the departure of Edwards, Goodwin and Mcleod, believe the Crows may improve next year compared to this year, however a point made by a couple of posters in the "Picks 2011" thread, you really need a top 4 team midfield around you to be a top scorer. With Thompson, Mackay, Van Berlo, Douglas and Dangerfield I can't see the Crows performing to the ilk of Collingwood, St Kilda, Geelong next year. Also the recruitments of Tambling and Callinan only proves that their midfield is in dire straits.

Kieran Jack is an interesting player. I really like the way he goes about his footy, ruthless and hard at the ball. I'd really like to see him in a Port jumper...anyway. My assumption is the Swans are in a similar position to the Crows in that they don't have the big guns apart from Goodes who is also aging. Last year he did tend to have quite a few scores around the 70 mark. From what I recall, he did take tagging duties occasionally which is probably reason behind his mediocre scoring.

So in summary, neither.

Sylvia vs Higgins

 

[54Dogs]

Higgins vs Sylvia

Hmmmmmm...........

Higgins has missed a minimum of 5 games in each of the last 2 years plus 18 missed the year before that. Huge concerns with his body. Had 3-4 different injuries last year and even when he played often went off during matches with "niggles". Has scoring upside but impossible to consider when durability will be so important with the byes next year. Despite the recent fluff article that he is over his injuries.

Sylvia has also never played more than 18 games in a year, similar durability problems although his have also related to off field headcase issues. Could not consider, especially at his price because he will miss games plus the byes.

If they were the only 2 players left and I had to choose 1 I'd take Higgins as he's cheaper.


Sandilands vs Jolly

 

[JimmyRecard]

Higgins vs Sylvia

Hmmmmmm...........

Higgins has missed a minimum of 5 games in each of the last 2 years plus 18 missed the year before that. Huge concerns with his body. Had 3-4 different injuries last year and even when he played often went off during matches with "niggles". Has scoring upside but impossible to consider when durability will be so important with the byes next year. Despite the recent fluff article that he is over his injuries.

Sylvia has also never played more than 18 games in a year, similar durability problems although his have also related to off field headcase issues. Could not consider, especially at his price because he will miss games plus the byes.

If they were the only 2 players left and I had to choose 1 I'd take Higgins as he's cheaper.


Sandilands vs Jolly

personally im locking in both, but if i had to make a choice i would say Jolly.

The reasons:

- Sandilands TOG will drop as he was overworked during the year and he paid the price at the back end of the year pyshically. Freo coaching staff will avoid this and his average will suffer.

- Jolly still has upside IMO, hes start to the season was shocking but once he worked out the pies gameplan he dominated. the new interchange rules will also benefit Jolly whos handy up forward. Finnally hes durablility is unrivalled amongst ruckman.

Nathan Van berlo VS Bernie Vince

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Nathan Van berlo VS Bernie Vince...

Vince has previously averaged over 100 and will be priced at an 85 avg.
Van Berlo in his six seasons, has ony managed a best avg of 85 and will be priced accordingly.

Both don't lay enough tackles for consistantly high DT output but Vince would be my pick between the two.


------------------------------
Cheap starting midfield options:

Brock McLean vs Nathan Foley

 

[Lazarus]

Personally neither, but if i had to choose - McLean. Don't know if Foley is over injuries.

Gibbs v Murphy

 

[Crows88]

Bryce Gibbs - heading into his fifth season.
2008 Avg - 87 from 21 games
2009 Avg - 104 from 22 games
2010 Avg - 95 from 22 games

Marc Murphy - heading into his sixth season.
2008 Avg - 97 from 22 games
2009 Avg - 102 from 22 games
2010 Avg - 99 from 21 games


Gibbs and Murphy are two previous first draft picks and are the sort of footballers that we would all love to have at our football club. They are loved by Ratten and seem like the perfect AFL footballers. They are both extremely durable right throughout their careers with each of them only missing a couple of games here and there. Last season Murphy had his surgery in the pre-season and there were questions raised about whether he would be ready for the start of the season or whether his fitness level would be ready to partake in the start of the AFL season. However, murph made it in time for round 1 and proved the doubters wrong. Murphy usually averages more disposals than Gibbs and it is not uncommon to see Marc get forward and kick a goal which is what us DT'ers love. He is a player who seems to lift his side and he is always going to get midfield time. He has been bouyed by the arrival of Juddy as Juddy does seem to feed him the ball nicely and he will be an important cog in the future blues midfield and with the likes of gibbs, juddy and kreuzer around him he will get good support.

Gibbs is an interesting one and it is all about role selection from Ratten as to whether he is a positive DT prospect or not. Some say he may be named as a back and if he is he will be in the majority of sides for 2011. However, I personally believe he will only be a mid. He has stated he wants to get more time back in the midfield for 2011, however, the question is - Does ratts agree? Although he averages less disposals and goals than Murph he is a marker. He has a great set of hands and is one of those DT mids who loves to get space and take a grab. He was moved on the HB line this season to utilise his fantastic foot skills and he was given that quarter back role which we have seen the like of Scotland and Carrots fill in recent years. He is also a known tagger of elite opposition and when the blues play sydney it is a given that Gibbs will go to Goodes as he has a fantastic record against him. I personally hope Ratten throws him back in the guts as I love watching him play through the middle rather than through that quarter back role.

The other consideration is I think Gibbs may start getting tags if he is played through the midfield due to his elite foot skills. Judd will almost always get the number one tag, however, I believe if Gibbs is played through the middle he will be getting the number 2 tag throughout the season. The other consideration is Gibbs is known for getting those big 140 point style games throughout his career whereas Murph is more consistent with less deviation. Gibbs does have the potential to average 110 though whereas some believe Murphy may have hit his straps and won't ever average the 105 standards that we are now expecting from our final mids.

Personally I would take murph due to the fact that he si going to have a full pre-season with no off-season surgery and the fact that there is uncertainty over Gibbs's role and the fact that with Gibbs's deviation he may be picked up later in the season once we are more aware of what his role may be. However, I will be watching closely throughout the pre-season and would not be surprised to have one of them in my side. Plus I love watching them play.

Trent Cotchin v Justin Sherman + 31k v Callan Ward + 82k

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Personally neither, but if i had to choose - McLean. Don't know if Foley is over injuries.

Good work... food for thought.

 

[54Dogs]

Good work... food for thought.

Haha, I'll have a crack

Foley - Inside mid with a poor DT game but priced too well to ignore. Kick > HB ratio is terrible and takes very few marks. That said, he is an required best 22 player by the Tigers, 25 years old is perfect and entering his 7th year with a hardened AFL body. He has also averaged 85 in the days before DT scoring increased which shows he has the capacity to average over 90. Strong watch this PS to see how he's recovering from last years injuries. He's priced similar to Swallow and will cost a trade but is definitely a solid watch this PS.

McLean- Recruited by the Blues for the grunt work to protect Judd and allow him to play more outside. Was flying last PS but didn't carry that into the NAB Cup and as usual was struck down with injury during the year. Seems to slow for the modern game to my eye, has never played more than 20 games and the Blues want him inside rather than outside. Has always struggled with a tag although would miss the tag at the Blues.


For me, Foley by a long way assuming a solid PS



Knights vs Petterd

 

[Lazarus]

Good work... food for thought.

Don't really have much to say about two players neither of which I was anywhere near picking. Having said that, I might watch Foley's PS but still unlikely I'll pick him, depending on his price

 

[castro]

Bryce Gibbs - heading into his fifth season.
2008 Avg - 87 from 21 games
2009 Avg - 104 from 22 games
2010 Avg - 95 from 22 games

Marc Murphy - heading into his sixth season.
2008 Avg - 97 from 22 games
2009 Avg - 102 from 22 games
2010 Avg - 99 from 21 games


Gibbs and Murphy are two previous first draft picks and are the sort of footballers that we would all love to have at our football club. They are loved by Ratten and seem like the perfect AFL footballers. They are both extremely durable right throughout their careers with each of them only missing a couple of games here and there. Last season Murphy had his surgery in the pre-season and there were questions raised about whether he would be ready for the start of the season or whether his fitness level would be ready to partake in the start of the AFL season. However, murph made it in time for round 1 and proved the doubters wrong. Murphy usually averages more disposals than Gibbs and it is not uncommon to see Marc get forward and kick a goal which is what us DT'ers love. He is a player who seems to lift his side and he is always going to get midfield time. He has been bouyed by the arrival of Juddy as Juddy does seem to feed him the ball nicely and he will be an important cog in the future blues midfield and with the likes of gibbs, juddy and kreuzer around him he will get good support.

Gibbs is an interesting one and it is all about role selection from Ratten as to whether he is a positive DT prospect or not. Some say he may be named as a back and if he is he will be in the majority of sides for 2011. However, I personally believe he will only be a mid. He has stated he wants to get more time back in the midfield for 2011, however, the question is - Does ratts agree? Although he averages less disposals and goals than Murph he is a marker. He has a great set of hands and is one of those DT mids who loves to get space and take a grab. He was moved on the HB line this season to utilise his fantastic foot skills and he was given that quarter back role which we have seen the like of Scotland and Carrots fill in recent years. He is also a known tagger of elite opposition and when the blues play sydney it is a given that Gibbs will go to Goodes as he has a fantastic record against him. I personally hope Ratten throws him back in the guts as I love watching him play through the middle rather than through that quarter back role.

The other consideration is I think Gibbs may start getting tags if he is played through the midfield due to his elite foot skills. Judd will almost always get the number one tag, however, I believe if Gibbs is played through the middle he will be getting the number 2 tag throughout the season. The other consideration is Gibbs is known for getting those big 140 point style games throughout his career whereas Murph is more consistent with less deviation. Gibbs does have the potential to average 110 though whereas some believe Murphy may have hit his straps and won't ever average the 105 standards that we are now expecting from our final mids.

Personally I would take murph due to the fact that he si going to have a full pre-season with no off-season surgery and the fact that there is uncertainty over Gibbs's role and the fact that with Gibbs's deviation he may be picked up later in the season once we are more aware of what his role may be. However, I will be watching closely throughout the pre-season and would not be surprised to have one of them in my side. Plus I love watching them play.

Trent Cotchin v Justin Sherman + 31k v Callan Ward + 82k

Big expectations on Cotchin this year with a full preaseason under his belt - too risky for mine as I don't think he is a premium for at least another year yet. Ward at that price can't be ignored as he is a guaranteed starter and with improved fitness this season I would expect scoring potential similiar to Andrew Swallow in respect to tackling.

 

[castro]

Knights v Duncan v Yarran

 

[Tom12]

Haha, I'll have a crack

Foley - Inside mid with a poor DT game but priced too well to ignore. Kick > HB ratio is terrible and takes very few marks. That said, he is an required best 22 player by the Tigers, 25 years old is perfect and entering his 7th year with a hardened AFL body. He has also averaged 85 in the days before DT scoring increased which shows he has the capacity to average over 90. Strong watch this PS to see how he's recovering from last years injuries. He's priced similar to Swallow and will cost a trade but is definitely a solid watch this PS.

McLean- Recruited by the Blues for the grunt work to protect Judd and allow him to play more outside. Was flying last PS but didn't carry that into the NAB Cup and as usual was struck down with injury during the year. Seems to slow for the modern game to my eye, has never played more than 20 games and the Blues want him inside rather than outside. Has always struggled with a tag although would miss the tag at the Blues.


For me, Foley by a long way assuming a solid PS



Knights vs Petterd

McLean has the potential to bounce back and put up good numbers if he gets his body right. Being so heavily discounted he is certainly worth the punt and 75+ looks likely.
You can treat both of these guys like higher priced rookies (according fanfootys FP anyway) and bank on heavy improvement to make the investment worthwhile to fund an upgrade.
I like Carltons fixture so that works for Mclean.
Foley is one who could surprise alot of us, in an improving side and coming back from injury. I'm looking at both of these players as they'll start round 1 if injury free which is an advantage over GC17.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Will be looking at both Foley and Mclean both best 22 players who have good midfields around them. Both will be dirt cheap by the sounds of it, around 200-220k??. Cant see why you wouldnt take them ahead of high draft picks.

As for Cotchin im expecting a massive season from him, just unsure if he is able to put up the DT numbers, wont be a keeper in the mids which is a problem and with that comes injury. So hes a no. I can see him avg 80-85 a significant improvment but with injury and a trade needed to get a keeper i probably wont pick him.

Ward is in the same boat as cotchin. The midpricers could be back this year, plenty of good ones that have either been injured in the past or some young kids looking to improve there avg by 15-20 but not quite hit keeper status. Could be back in SD's domain.

Dont think Knights vs Petterd has been done if so

Yarran vs Duncan vs

 

[Crows88]

Going back as there are a few that haven't been answered...

Knights v Petterd

Chris Knights:
2009 avg - 84.7 from 18 games
2010 avg - 66.8 from 5 games

Ricky Petterd:
2009 avg - 67.3 from 18 games
2010 avg - 76.7 from 6 games

The big question mark around these guys is all about durbaility. Chris Knights showed us all what he could do during the 2009 season and many experts believe that he was one, if not the key factor that led to the crows success in that season. He was drafted as a midfielder, however, he has moulded his game to be on of the most dangerous half forwards in the game. He is different to the Steve Johnson types as he likes to get the ball on the wing and have a bounce and have a shot from outside 50. It is because of this damaging left boot that the crows love the ball in his hands. He is a great prospect who loves DT but his injury proneness has made question marks around whther he can be a potential prospect for the 2011 season or not. He is heading into his 7th season and has only twice played more than 15 games in a season. However, he is almost too good to pass up as he could easily average 85....until an injury hits, however hopefully by this point he wouldve made you some solid cash. The other thing is he will leave you with less hair than you currently have as his injury will be either a quad, hammy, calf, glute, somthing leg related where the injury list wil say 2-6 and leave you pondering....

Ricky Petterd is an interesting one as I believe he was originally drafted as a running HBFer. I remember watching his forst couple of AFL games and he was magnificent. He is heading into his 5th AFL season and was a real reason why Melborune started the season so well last year. However, he was injured early in the season and did not make a return after round 6. He has a nice little discount and priced similarly to the top draft picks it is easy to see why he has people scratching their heads. He struggles for durability but is a ball magent. However, personally I believe here are too many question marks around him at the moment in terms of role and his job security. He will be one that I will be watching extremely closely throughout the pr-season as I want him in my side. However, with guys like Knights, Fevola, Petrie, Williams at a similar price range he wll need to be considered.

I can see both of them being in my team come round 1, however, if I was to choose only 1 of them it would be Knights for me.

Joel Corey v Liam Anthony +35k

 

[rooke33]

Joel Corey v Liam Anthony +35k

Joel Corey:
2009 avg – 20 games @ 106.7
2010 avg – 11 games @ 93.8

Liam Anthony:
2009 avg – 10 games @ 96.2
2010 avg – 7 games @ 95.1

In the 4 seasons prior to this year Joel Corey has only missed 2 games so durability has generally not been a big question mark, however he spent most of last season with a niggling knee injury. So the 2 questions are how he will come back from the knee and how will Abletts absence from the geelong midfield effect Coreys output. In the past he has scored well in Abletts absence and I believe Selwood and Chapman will be the first to players to cop a tag so he should be alright there. If he can get back to his best will be a steal at his price as he is 13 pts below his 2009 average.

I can say that Anthony has started both his seasons in my team, found out about the stress fractures after rd 1 lockout in ’09…Laidley. However from his debut in rd 13 on it was clear why there was so much hype about him as set about braking 100 4 times in his 10 games and went on to average 96. He started 2010 with a bang scoring 136, but was up and down scoring 3 big hundreds and being in the 70’s for most of the others on his way to 7 games before dislocating his shoulder putting him out for the season.
There are 2 worries with Anthony 1. Coming back from a shoulder reco, a lot of players have had recurring issues with shoulder injuries 2. The depth of Norths mids worries me so I fear he might get tagged however having said that Harvey and swallow should be the first two tagged. He is discounted at 10% in the fanplanner pricing him at an av of 85. Could easily average 100 so there is good risk vs reward.

Personally at this stage I will not be starting with either of these 2, but I would put corey ahead as he has consistently averaged over 104 for the 2007 – 2009 seasons and if he is fit and well preseason could be a steal, Anthony has a lot of upside but is yet to put a full season together yet.

Gram vs Ellis + 32k

 

[Buddyman]

Gram v Ellis + 32k
I'll give it a go...
Gram is a proven gun as seen by his previous averages of; 91 and an injury plagued 84. His reaching a prime dt age of 26/27 and is also in a top 4 team with the added element of being fairly durable up until last year of course. The cons about him are that he commonly starts seasons very poorly (usually 5-10 pts down on yearly average) unusual but he seems to be a much better player in the run home than from the start. The argument is that he has potential to average about 90 leaving him priced a bit cheaper than what he should be. The balls really in your court with Gram because he's a fairly realiable pick if your looking at him playing matches but he will most likely stagnate with him having 'reached' his potential. My prediction is for him to stagnate around the same average (85) but play about 20 games, Now onto Ellis
With this young Hawk of course you are looking for a break out year. X averaged 76 in his first full season with a high of 111. Now he has the potential to average around 90+, the question on everyones lips is when not if he will acheive this scoring. My predicted average for him is about 85, but you must counteract that with the knowledge that 2 out of his 4 seasons he has had major injury issues. A positive is that he's had a positive preseason adding a bit of muscle to his light frame, something which will help him deal with the heavy blows that are part and parcel of this game.

For me I would take Ellis just because I reckon if his preseason remains a positive one he can average similar numbers to that of Gram. Also the 32k can be handy to find a minor premium upgrade.A bit of bias I guess but I just reckon with a breakout on the cards it's better going for someone with uncapped potential than Gram who will most likely stagnate. Just my two cents...
Ahhhhh Higgins v Rioli

 

[54Dogs]

Cyril vs Higgins

Cyril is headed for the midfield, at least in patches this year. Showed he can go very high with time in the middle last year and being touted as potentially the next Ablett when he finally builds the tank to run through there full time. That won't be this year, which will be more a combination of fwd/mid. With Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Sewell, Bateman and co already in the middle it also remains to be seen how much time he gets in there. Add to that the soft tissue injury concerns, the lack of crumbing fwds at the Hawks and there are a few red flags. The potential to average 95-100 is certainly there but with that comes plenty of risk and uncertainty.

Higgins has plenty of injury concerns as well. Already commented on earlier in the thread he presents potential upside with plenty of injury risk and the possibility of a declining team. The fwd / midfield mix also remains uncertain but there is 10 points upside if he stays healthy.

Cyril for me from these 2.


Franklin vs Didak

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Franklin vs Didak

I'll return fire and have a crack Dogs.

Both players averaged 99 for 2010 and ended up being the 2nd and 3rd ranked forwards (after Chapman). Both are DT guns but the question is should you start with them?

Didak
Didak ripped the pectoral muscle clean off the bone late in the season (shooting accident apparently) and is currently recovering from post-season surgery. He may miss some pre-season games according to the club and could be a little underdone for the season proper.

He's likely to be assigned DP status which significantly ramps up his DT currency. The Collingwood byes are in rounds 7 and 13 which is a positive in terms of missing the "horror" bye rounds of 4, 5, 6, 16 and 19.

"Dids" is fully priced and is unlikely to increase his DT average much beyond 100 due to occassional hard tags and time spent up forward.


Buddy
Buddy had a great 2010 and increased his DT average by 20 from the previous year. The Hawks seem to be gearing up for a better 2011 which means the Sherrin could be delivered to Buddy more regularly and with greater precision. The possbility of some BIG scores from Buddy is tantalising.

DP eligibility is unlikely and the Hawks first bye is in a horror round (round 6 with Gee and Fre) and overall team coverage could be a problem. To cover Buddy, decent forward rookies will be needed or even perhaps a "DP Dylan" type bench option.


I'm tempted to start with both but the fact Buddy won't have DP and I have Geelong and Frematle players earmarked for the initial lineup means round 6 could present coverage problems.

Dids for me due to DP. If I can't resolve the coverage issues then Buddy will be an upgrade target from round 7 onwards.


Kane Cornes vs Luke Hodge

 

[egosbar]

I'll return fire and have a crack Dogs.

Both players averaged 99 for 2010 and ended up being the 2nd and 3rd ranked forwards (after Chapman). Both are DT guns but the question is should you start with them?

Didak
Didak ripped the pectoral muscle clean off the bone late in the season (shooting accident apparently) and is currently recovering from post-season surgery. He may miss some pre-season games according to the club and could be a little underdone for the season proper.

He's likely to be assigned DP status which significantly ramps up his DT currency. The Collingwood byes are in rounds 7 and 13 which is a positive in terms of missing the "horror" bye rounds of 4, 5, 6, 16 and 19.

"Dids" is fully priced and is unlikely to increase his DT average much beyond 100 due to occassional hard tags and time spent up forward.


Buddy
Buddy had a great 2010 and increased his DT average by 20 from the previous year. The Hawks seem to be gearing up for a better 2011 which means the Sherrin could be delivered to Buddy more regularly and with greater precision. The possbility of some BIG scores from Buddy is tantalising.

DP eligibility is unlikely and the Hawks first bye is in a horror round (round 6 with Gee and Fre) and overall team coverage could be a problem. To cover Buddy, decent forward rookies will be needed or even perhaps a "DP Dylan" type bench option.


I'm tempted to start with both but the fact Buddy won't have DP and I have Geelong and Frematle players earmarked for the initial lineup means round 6 could present coverage problems.

Dids for me due to DP. If I can't resolve the coverage issues then Buddy will be an upgrade target from round 7 onwards.


Kane Cornes vs Luke Hodge

cornes hasnt missed a game for seven years (maybe he is due??) but his consistency has made him one of the best dt players around , he isnt in my team but in saying that he never has been just one of those players ive never been able to fit in for preference to others

hodge on the other hand has always been in my side but if he hasnt got duel position then he wont be this year as i prefer other mids , he has also been a great dt player

price very similar

i really dont think you can go wrong with either although i wont be having either of them in my side at the moment but stats wise id say cornes as he is a tagger so wont get tagged out of it and he finds the ball very effectively , you just cant ignore the fact he has played so many games in a row , he would of played with injury in that time so it shows how tough he is and wont let you down on minor niggles geez he may just find his way into my team lol

jolly v ryder

 

[egosbar]

thought this thread would maintain momentum as its always a good read looks like its stale

well ill bump it to the top and see where we go

ryder v jolly

 

[timster]

I think Jolly is ahead.
1) No other ruck (like HIlle) competing for his role
2) In a team that is likely to win the flag again (oh that so hurts saying that)
3) Is capable of scoring 100's on a more recent basis (based upon previous seasons)
4) Ess with their new coach is a bit of a risk - as we are not sure what their game plan is or where Ryder will play.

O'keefe vs Goodes (as forwards).
At this stage I have both in my side - but I think I'll need to change that as the bye round will hurt. I just think both are undervalued and could average 100 or more this season.
Thoughts