Players tactically waiting to come off the bench - Issue or non-issue?

[The BIG X]

Actually Dennis Cometti has been quietly complaining about it for the past 3-4 years....

I first noticed the cats doing this early season 2010 or 2011.
I have no issue with it.

 

[STFU Donnie]

I like it. Hopefully we might see a coach with the courage to hide the entire team on the bench, then when the opposition isn't expecting it charge at them like in the battle of hastings.

Classic!

 

[STFU Donnie]

Actually Dennis Cometti has been quietly complaining about it for the past 3-4 years....

That'd make a nice change. He's been loudly complaining about everything for the last 3-4 years.

 

[kreglze]

Not a fan when the player comes on and picks off a guy. However, how do you police it? It is going to keep happening. It doesn't happen enough in a game to be a serious issue.

 

[Asty]

This is in part a response to zones in that there is now more opportunity to do it and can assist with breaking the defensive lines by getting a free player on the outside.
Before zones it used to be more common to follow you opposition player to the interchange and wait for the new player to come on.. less surprises.
I also dont think this is a new tactic and remember years ago stevie j came on through the interchange and then walked around the boundary (like a player on interchange) and snuck back on in the forward pocket calling for the ball. It is just more prevalent now.

 

[MagpieJo]

Luke Breust was knocked out when he ran onto a hospital pass and was blindsided by a Crows player who had come flying out of nowhere off the bench.

That was one example of why it shouldn't be allowed.

It's not sporting.

A game shouldn't be decided by sneaky tactics. It's supposed be 18 players pitted against 18 players.

Well in that circumstance it's just wrong, and should be reported.

It's a clever tactic, but if it starts to be used to hurt someone, then the penalty needs to be big.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Silly thread. It's been happening for years and the OP has just noticed it now?

In other news, Michael Jackson died.

Good logic there.

Let's never change anything for the better again "coz it's been happening for ages anyways"
Why do you think seat belts in cars were invented??

 

[smeltitdeltit]

In terms of sneaky advantage- meh
in terms of player safety? Needs to be looked at

 

[HTPunter]

No, you don't understand.

Breust ran to the open space on the wing to provide an option for his teammate. He was all alone.
Just as his teammate kicked the ball over to him (a long high kick) Martin came sprinting from out of nowhere.
Breust had no f**king idea of the danger he was in.

There is no other situation in the game where this is a possibility.

Players have some awareness of the proximity of other players around them

So what does it matter about 'awareness' of danger? Did Jordan Lewis have 'an idea of the danger he was in' when he got cleaned up by Harbrow?

It's a contact sport.

Also, Martin was fair but hard. It wasn't 'disguised', it was a legitimate attempt.

 

[HTPunter]

Jesus H Christ.

Lewis was knocked out running onto a hospital pass in the middle of the ground.
a) his teammate should not have kicked that pass and put him in that position. Harbrow was right there at CHB.
b) Lewis should've been more aware of Harbrow (or maybe he was and went for the mark anyway)

Breust had no way of knowing that Brodie Martin was coming at him at 50mph and neither did his team-mate who passed him the ball. Martin sneaked onto the field after a delayed interchange.

And this is just the safety angle… What about the OP's point about teams who score cheap goals (or stop potential goals) because they ambush their opponents?

The point is that if Lewis can be cleaned up in the middle of the ground, then you can be cleaned up at any time. And if the player is hard, it will matter nought about whether a player is there. Lewis would have known Harbrow was coming, but chose to attack the ball in the hope he'd get there first.

Besides, 1 isolated incident which was fair anyway and we change the rules? Nope.

 

[Back One Out]

The point is that if Lewis can be cleaned up in the middle of the ground, then you can be cleaned up at any time. And if the player is hard, it will matter nought about whether a player is there. Lewis would have known Harbrow was coming, but chose to attack the ball in the hope he'd get there first. Besides, 1 isolated incident which was fair anyway and we change the rules? Nope.

Wrong. This is not the point at all.

The Lewis/Harbrow incident has nothing whatsoever to do with teams delaying their interchanges and ambushing their opponents as a surprise tactic

The only reason someone brought it up was because the pics looked similar to the Breust/Martin incident, but really, this is besides the point. It doesn't alter why delayed interchanges should be outlawed as a tactic.

Please read the thread if you wish to discuss it any further.

 

[jimmy35]

Players may have to be aware of their surroundings at all time. Assume the footy ground is like a gun and its loaded even when you think it's not.

 

[wowlace]

Really? Do you need it spelled out?

MCG, Hawthorn v Adelaide, 2012

An Adelaide player went off the ground but nobody come on to replace him… I'm not sure if anyone even noticed. Perhaps the Crows ran two players off and only one player came back on ground. For the next 15 or 20 seconds, it was 17 Crows vs 18 Hawks. Hawthorn had possession and switched play across to the open side of the ground (towards the interchange gate)

Someone kicked the ball over to Luke Breust in space - the ball went over his head and Breust turned and ran under it, never taking his eye off the ball - he thought he was all alone on the wing, no Crow player within 20 metres of him. What he didn't know was that Adelaide's Brodie Martin had come flying across from the interchange gate and cleaned him up with a brutal hit (part-disguised as a marking attempt)

This is how I remembered the incident. I'm pretty damn sure that's how it happened. There's a 10% chance it was a regulation interchange and not one of these tactical delayed interchanges. But the point still stands. This is the type of shit which can occur.

It's not fair. I can't see why teams (or players) should be allowed to gain an advantage like this through delayed interchanging. This was never in the spirit of the game.

Awareness, get some.

 

[Furn2]

Just get rid of interchange

 

[Father Jack]

I don't like the bench being used tactically outside of actually interchanging players.

 

[santa claws]

its certainly cheating and a blight. so we are asking players to not only check the field of play but the interchange bench before kicking or playing on that is a nonsense.
there is a simple remedy. theres so many stoppages in a game make it you can only interchange when theres a stoppage.
that is ball up, boundary throw in, or when theres been a score. it really isnt rocket science.

 

[ManWithNoName]

its certainly cheating and a blight. so we are asking players to not only check the field of play but the interchange bench before kicking or playing on that is a nonsense.
there is a simple remedy. theres so many stoppages in a game make it you can only interchange when theres a stoppage.
that is ball up, boundary throw in, or when theres been a score. it really isnt rocket science.

Simplest and fairest solution I can think of.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Or you make the incoming and outgoing player exchange some sort of physical object, which solves all the interchange issues - most sports that do this just use a large card with the number of the player to come off printed on it.

The strange thing with the AFL these days seems to be that a player comes off the field and then they work out which player from the bench will go on. Whereas in most sports you work out the player you want to put on, then decide who will be coming off for them.

 

[kickazz]

I think it's against the spirit of the game

It's sneaky and devious.

Tend to agree. The team with 18 can always follow someone off and have their spare guy in space though. No excuses.

But when I see it happen, I'm just not impressed by it, if that makes any sense. It's like, "oooo well done, you gamed the interchange" it's not entertaining footy.

Always love the contested nature of Aussie footy. If I want tactics etc I watch NFL.

 

[kickazz]

so we are asking players to not only check the field of play but the interchange bench before kicking or playing on that is a nonsense.

Good point. Also a player running to space on the wing. Do they need to scan the bench and count how many are there? What if one is running along the boundary or lying down? Is that three or four blokes I see there? They should have concern only for what is happening on the ground.

It's kind of shit in that sense. Whilst only having 17 on the ground may balance out the fairness holistically, we still go to games to expecting to watch players run and kick to places in good faith as to what they see on the ground.

What other sports allow it? Ice Hockey? Any others?

 

[Back One Out]

Good point. Also a player running to space on the wing. Do they need to scan the bench and count how many are there? What if one is running along the boundary or lying down? Is that three or four blokes I see there? They should have concern only for what is happening on the ground.

It's kind of shit in that sense. Whilst only having 17 on the ground may balance out the fairness holistically, we still go to games to expecting to watch players run and kick to places in good faith as to what they see on the ground.

What other sports allow it? Ice Hockey? Any others?

Ice Hockey probably allows it, but 5 on 5 (minus the goalies) means that nobody would be crazy enough to seek an advantage that way. All their emphasis is on interchanging players as quickly as possible

Different story with 17 v 18.

 

[Mancey]

Been happening for years. Non issue

If teams want to risk playing with 17 players in order to get a sneaky advantage, let them do this

 

[Spook]

Been noticing this more and more lately. A player will come off but the player who's coming back on will not come on straight away. Instead he'll wait until he can run on unnoticed as a free marking target, or to ping a player from behind who had no idea he was there or so forth. Seems clubs, or players, have worked this out and are exploiting it more often.

What are people's thoughts on this? Is it "unfair" and should the player coming on have to come on as soon as the other player comes off? Or is it just something that happens and all fair enough?

Can you give an example of when this has happened this year?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Can you give an example of when this has happened this year?

Our game on the weekend actually. One of our blokes got absolutely smashed in a tackle from behind from a guy coming off the bench.

 

[Kram]

It's a game that requires the skill of 360 degrees awareness..