Discussion Political Correctness

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gringo2011 said:
Funny enough, our daughter has a friend in their friend group who is non binary. I was trying to work out what this person's gender was before they came over for a party. The young people are all over it but it was like that Abbott and Costello "who's on first" skit when I was trying to work out to be prepared on how to greet them. She couldn't understand my ignorance and I couldn't understand what the fu** she was on about. It turned out it was just some young arty hippy looking guy that wore a girly top but wanted to be unlabelled. It made it confusing for a middle age person to work out what to call them, but she told me to shut up and call them by their first name which actually seemed to work. I'm pretty liberal minded but I was stressing about ******* it up, seemed like a nice kid though compared to some of the little dickheads.
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Language again.
All the kids are pretty much going through the same dumb shit we did when young, except that they call it new things, which to us sound different...some kids take it to a higher llevel like the "arty" dude, whilst your daughter sits in the "we accept it" category, whilst others are in the "don't accept category" Most however, depending on social group sit in between the two, saying "Yay." Or "Nay." But actually don't give a toss either way.
Nothing has changed. There is simply more propaganda and money involved.
 
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tomjoad said:
There's some really good points on this thread. It's been mostly enjoyable reading.
I'm not going to throw my hat into any of the rings, I have my theories, and I'm happy not to share them...they are, after all opinions...so who gives a shit.
What I will say is that the majority of people are fairly reasonable and open, and know when to either relent in their argument, or progress. It doesn't mean a person's mind is changed either way, or after the fact...it just means that we're not all liked minded (and thank f*CK too)
However the minority whack jobs on both sides are generally the loudest and most fundamental in their views, which unfortunately gets the most attention, and as a result we get sucked into their orbits and are judged accordingly.
Unfortunately thus far there is not a cure for being an a-hole or for being stupid...and that is where the problems manifest.
Not long ago for example my mate was racially abused by a gay dude. When I intervened on my friends behalf, the gay guy started his homophobia nonsense (I hadn't mentioned sexual preferences or choice at any stage, because I quite frankly don't care about people I don't know. It saves time)
Now, because homosexuality is more of a topic than the less cool racist topic, those around us started picking their sides accordingly, and at our detriment. Nothing happened, just words from those weighing in from a point of stupidity and ignorance in relation to the event, but it spoke volumes to me.

How does one get called a homophobe afterall, when decrying the topic of racism?

For me the problem is language and our understanding of it...it seems no one really knows what they're saying anymore, and weighing in...not because they understand, but because of being sucked into the siege like orbits of morons.
Silence will end up being the loudest voice of all soon enough.
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Good post, mate, and you're right, it's good to have a polite discussion, where people with different opinions can make their points reasonably and without descending into the madness that so often defines the internet.
 
Society seems to be evolving.
The rule of "treat others as you would have them treat you" still applies, but there are variations and subcultures which make generalisations inapplicable and this can be disturbing for us older folk. Some cope by just being respectful, while others feel left behind, or react to anything that leaves them feeling as if the rules are changed. Ridicule and exaggeration become their tools that they use to try and keep the world the way it was when they grew up.
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
Yeah i thought about that after i made that post too. Pretty amazing how people assume their role.
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I love some of those psych experiments. A lot would be unethical now but they are fascinating.
 
tomjoad said:
There's some really good points on this thread. It's been mostly enjoyable reading.
I'm not going to throw my hat into any of the rings, I have my theories, and I'm happy not to share them...they are, after all opinions...so who gives a shit.
What I will say is that the majority of people are fairly reasonable and open, and know when to either relent in their argument, or progress. It doesn't mean a person's mind is changed either way, or after the fact...it just means that we're not all liked minded (and thank f*CK too)
However the minority whack jobs on both sides are generally the loudest and most fundamental in their views, which unfortunately gets the most attention, and as a result we get sucked into their orbits and are judged accordingly.
Unfortunately thus far there is not a cure for being an a-hole or for being stupid...and that is where the problems manifest.
Not long ago for example my mate was racially abused by a gay dude. When I intervened on my friends behalf, the gay guy started his homophobia nonsense (I hadn't mentioned sexual preferences or choice at any stage, because I quite frankly don't care about people I don't know. It saves time)
Now, because homosexuality is more of a topic than the less cool racist topic, those around us started picking their sides accordingly, and at our detriment. Nothing happened, just words from those weighing in from a point of stupidity and ignorance in relation to the event, but it spoke volumes to me.

How does one get called a homophobe afterall, when decrying the topic of racism?

For me the problem is language and our understanding of it...it seems no one really knows what they're saying anymore, and weighing in...not because they understand, but because of being sucked into the siege like orbits of morons.
Silence will end up being the loudest voice of all soon enough.
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In the internet age, the loudest and most extreme get the attention. They aren't always the best people. Trump, Joe Exotic etc aren't great people they are just extreme characters who grab attention from people who have plenty to distract them. Silence would be a good thing, I can't see it happening anytime soon unfortunately.
 
Having equal rights does not mean having equal talents, equal abilities, or equal knowledge. It assuredly does not mean that “everyone’s opinion about anything is as good as anyone else’s.” And yet, this is now enshrined as the credo of a fair number of people despite being obvious nonsense.

Quote from Tom Nichols “The Death of Expertise”.
 
tomjoad said:
Language again.
All the kids are pretty much going through the same dumb shit we did when young, except that they call it new things, which to us sound different...some kids take it to a higher llevel like the "arty" dude, whilst your daughter sits in the "we accept it" category, whilst others are in the "don't accept category" Most however, depending on social group sit in between the two, saying "Yay." Or "Nay." But actually don't give a toss either way.
Nothing has changed. There is simply more propaganda and money involved.
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I like how TV advertising panders to it.

The "Connect" add, bringing together the butcher girl and the gender challenged guy.
FFS people, its an ISP, you connect your modem to them.
 
George said:
I'm not getting involved in this debate at all but I want to point out the reason he is pushing back on the restrictions to free speech is because his country, Canada, almost passed (or actually may have passed) a bill for it to be law to call people by what they identify as.

He has stressed before that this has more to do with his own government's supposed way of drip feeding the removal of free speech.

Basically a thinking of 'well if we adhere to this then what's next?'.

Personally I couldn't give a stuff about this specifically and would call anyone whatever they prefer but I can see where he is coming from regarding overbearing governments.
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Yeah, I'm against that too, but that's not really what the bill does, according to a toronto university law professor,

"Bill C-16 does not allow for Canadian citizens to be jailed or fined simply for using the wrong gender pronoun when addressing a person.

Bill C-16 could lead to an organization having to pay damages to a person, but only if proof of a wider pattern of discrimination can be established."
 
Kildonan said:
Society seems to be evolving.
The rule of "treat others as you would have them treat you" still applies, but there are variations and subcultures which make generalisations inapplicable and this can be disturbing for us older folk. Some cope by just being respectful, while others feel left behind, or react to anything that leaves them feeling as if the rules are changed. Ridicule and exaggeration become their tools that they use to try and keep the world the way it was when they grew up.
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Some of them were flower children in the 60s. Some of that stuff was stupid in hind site.
Some of the stuff the younger generation are doing now will no doubt be shown to be stupid in time.
At least we aren't shooting them with rubber ( or live ) bullets.
 
Kildonan said:
Having equal rights does not mean having equal talents, equal abilities, or equal knowledge. It assuredly does not mean that “everyone’s opinion about anything is as good as anyone else’s.” And yet, this is now enshrined as the credo of a fair number of people despite being obvious nonsense.

Quote from Tom Nichols “The Death of Expertise”.
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We have a friend who is a scientist and was caught up in a political stouch because a politician had told a journalist that we had some tax payer funded equipment that cost a fortune sitting idle. It was being repaired but the politician had rung a journalist and conflated a story that even after being told the reason was deliberately written to say the opposite and used everything he'd said out of context so that it looked like he agreed what was said. Now they have to have someone on staff to manage all the interviews and media releases just so that similar lies aren't used to attack their funding. It's like something out of a black comedy. If it was ignorance it would be bad enough but when there are people deliberately misleading the public and undermining the credibility of experts, it's very depressing.
 
gringo2011 said:
We have a friend who is a scientist and was caught up in a political stouch because a politician had told a journalist that we had some tax payer funded equipment that cost a fortune sitting idle. It was being repaired but the politician had rung a journalist and conflated a story that even after being told the reason was deliberately written to say the opposite and used everything he'd said out of context so that it looked like he agreed what was said. Now they have to have someone on staff to manage all the interviews and media releases just so that similar lies aren't used to attack their funding. It's like something out of a black comedy. If it was ignorance it would be bad enough but when there are people deliberately misleading the public and undermining the credibility of experts, it's very depressing.
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And that's why the Media all moan that the AFL players and coaches all roll out the same old answers to the same old questions.
They made their own beds.

Used to love "Frontline" because it was based on reality. ( not much of it on youtube i can post :( )
Waaay better than any of that "Anchorman" crap.
Hollowmen was also very good.




"Jan, it says here I've gotta do a high-five with the weatherman." "Brooke, no one's doing a high-five with anyone, darling. It'll just appear that way." "Good, 'cause I'm not touching him."
 

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gringo2011 said:
I'm no geneticist, all I know is that when we did Ancestry, first cousins looks pretty distant. We would have made Tasmanians blush. In oldie times we took the term "keeping it in the family" a little too literally.
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Ahhh you're a Targaryan.
 
Great topic to debate, so I’m going to invite myself over for a yarn. Who needs labels? Call yourself a ‘Political Atheist‘, It’s amazingly therapeutic. You do realise that if it was compulsory for all politicians to pin sponsorship labels on their suits like F1 drivers do, they magically become one identical party.

On Political correctness, those who endorse censorship have already lost the debate...it’s that simple. Mark my words, the more Tech Giants like Google, FB, YT, Insta etc censor free speech...the more people will move away in droves to other platforms.
 
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MUFKilda said:
Yes, much that isn't the usual hubris. Political correctness etc.... I could type anything I like right now, so what is this thing called political correctness which is stifling me and holding me captive? I may be asked to justify anything I do say, but that's part of the exchange of ideas. This 'political correctness' line is a ruse used by those who don't want to be challenged on their views, as they immediately become defensive. Say something disgusting then blame 'political correctness' for any criticism. What you call political correctness I call common decency. I don't need to denigrate others via vulgar generalisations in order to feel better about myself. However, I can give empirical criticism towards anything and anything I like. I'm not gagged by anybody.
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You just won the debate, but your point stands and therefore you won’t get any backdown from those who hide their facile arguments behind the dreaded PC of the left.
 
Sewer de Lance said:
Great topic to debate, so I’m going to invite myself over for a yarn. Who needs labels? Call yourself a ‘Political Atheist‘, It’s amazingly therapeutic. You do realise that if it was compulsory for all politicians to pin sponsorship labels on their suits like F1 drivers do, they suddenly become one party.

On Political correctness, those who endorse censorship have already lost the debate...it’s that simple. Mark my words, the more Tech Giants like Google, FB, YT, Insta etc censor free speech...the more people will move away in droves to other platforms.
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Agreed, but it isn’t “the left” censoring anyone.... The left bites back on right wing idiocy, it does not cancel people, that’s corporations protecting advertising revenue.....
 
I would say Donald Trump was a draft dodger. The politically correct right would say no, he had bone spurs
 
Sewer de Lance said:
Great topic to debate, so I’m going to invite myself over for a yarn. Who needs labels? Call yourself a ‘Political Atheist‘, It’s amazingly therapeutic. You do realise that if it was compulsory for all politicians to pin sponsorship labels on their suits like F1 drivers do, they suddenly become one party.

On Political correctness, those who endorse censorship have already lost the debate...it’s that simple. Mark my words, the more Tech Giants like Google, FB, YT, Insta etc censor free speech...the more people will move away in droves to other platforms.
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I agree, most major parties are fairly close in ideology. I also agree that people don't seem to stop believing what they believe and move to other more extreme channels often even. If you push someone from facebook where they might get a bit of push back from friends with differing ideas, and they end up on 4 Chan/ 8 chan type of sites. They will end up more extreme in some cases and don't have a tether.

I have noticed from facebook friends, that there has been a huge rise in conspiracy theories in the wake of Covid. Both sides of politics think that there is some kind of nefarious force working in some kind of shadow government. People who are otherwise normal and hold responsible jobs are posting stuff that makes you wonder about their sanity. No ne seems to believe in the system any more or at least feel like it's not serving their interests.
 
Johnnyrayflamingo said:
I think you mean the nutty left silences and howls down anyone that disagrees with them. You are so totally off the mark. This is why so many voted and like Trump. People can't stand the political correctness BS that has overtaken Western countries. Q and A on the ABC on Monday nights is a classic example of this. As is The Project on Ch 10 with those dweeb co hosts.

So out of touch with the silent majority.
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Depends what you mean by "left"- such a vague term for so many different interest groups who don't even agree with each other. The term "right" is the same. Please give a detailed definition of what you actually mean.
 
gringo2011 said:
I agree, most major parties are fairly close in ideology. I also agree that people don't seem to stop believing what they believe and move to other more extreme channels often even. If you push someone from facebook where they might get a bit of push back from friends with differing ideas, and they end up on 4 Chan/ 8 chan type of sites. They will end up more extreme in some cases and don't have a tether.

I have noticed from facebook friends, that there has been a huge rise in conspiracy theories in the wake of Covid. Both sides of politics think that there is some kind of nefarious force working in some kind of shadow government. People who are otherwise normal and hold responsible jobs are posting stuff that makes you wonder about their sanity. No ne seems to believe in the system any more or at least feel like it's not serving their interests.
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Most Public Health Policy is set by the World Health Organization. When The WHO was formed in 1948 it was nearly completely funded by member states belonging to the UN. Fast forward to 2020, 80% of all funding comes from private donors - or in layman’s terms...Corporate Interests.

The other day Scomo had a long phone discussion with Bill Gates about navigating public health policy...the same Bill Gates who as far as I’m aware, is unelected, & has no medical qualifications, but Is the 2nd largest donor to the WHO. Are you following me? The WHO is not impartial, its a flawed organisation with major conflicts of interest. The stringent guidelines most governments have implemented are in actual fact, rooted in corporate interests.
 
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