Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[E Shed]

Hopefully it quickly moves to being able to compare two complete plans, complete costs to make them work and people can decide if zero emissions is worth it.

You’re already talking about Duttons announcement as a plan as if it has any more substance than the word nuclear written on a single page & 7 names of places where coal power stations exist.

That’s it. It’s not a plan. It’s a political gambit. It could be developed into a plan but it’s ridiculous to talk about it as a plan at this stage.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I poster it on bigfooty, it's somewhere here.

As far as money goes, if you want the zero emissions then it's going to cost money. If you want cheap power just burn coal.

Was this your $300 per household number? I can't find the rest of your numbers which you are using.

It'll cost money to transition away from crap coal, but I see no benefit of fission reactors in Australia.

 

[poshman]

You’re already talking about Duttons announcement as a plan as if it has any more substance than the word nuclear written on a single page & 7 names of places where coal power stations exist.

That’s it. It’s not a plan. It’s a political gambit. It could be developed into a plan but it’s ridiculous to talk about it as a plan at this stage.

Isn't this the case with most ideas like this from any opposition?

 

[poshman]

Was this your $300 per household number? I can't find the rest of your numbers which you are using.

It'll cost money to transition away from crap coal, but I see no benefit of fission reactors in Australia.

Why is that?

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I am not sure we know what it will cost or know how long it will take. China seems to be able to get them up and running at pace.

We're not China. We don't build cheap chinese shit that gets people killed.

Isn't this the case with most ideas like this from any opposition?

No plan, no idea. Just poor leadership. That's my professional assessment.

 

[Taylor]

Was this your $300 per household number? I can't find the rest of your numbers which you are using.

It'll cost money to transition away from crap coal, but I see no benefit of fission reactors in Australia.

No not that comment, now that I'm home I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

[Demons09]

Why is that?

It only works in other countries apparently.

 

[Taylor]

No not that comment, now that I'm home I'll see if I can dig it up.

I have yet to find it.

The numbers worked out scaling up the SA battery capacity to one week of backup for the eastern states to $750 billion. But it also required three years of the total global production of lithium worldwide to facilitate it.

Given the drought of renewable energy over there the last fortnight I don't think one week is enough anymore.

 

[poshman]

We're not China. We don't build cheap chinese shit that gets people killed.


No plan, no idea. Just poor leadership. That's my professional assessment.

I have been to china three times and think on the whole the construction over the last ten years is vastly improved. I am not saying let's build it the same way, but surely there are things we can learn from nations, including China who are doing it a lot cheaper than some are claiming in Australia?

Professional assessment? Are you in leadership? Politics? Genuinely interested as you claim a professional assessment.

There needs to be a divorce of ideology to solutions, especially climate and energy related. But ideally all things. I have not seen anyone explain well why nuclear is so bad or why they are so opposed to it.

 

[Taylor]

If you are sure the world needs zero emissions because the climate is going to change and weather events will get worse, then you shouldn't be putting your chips in the wind or solar baskets since both of those will be inactive for significant periods of time, or destroyed, by weather events far below the intensity of that which will make a nuclear reactor even blink.

If you are rational, you will appreciate that nothing Australia does will change the outcome climate change wise, so you should support the strongest and most reliable plan to withstand that. Including the need for desalination plants, for which you will want large scale generation in surplus.

That's a nuclear power plant.

If you think climate change is total rubbish and used by wealthy influencers to get more taxpayer money in their pockets and for politicians to run on in elections without actually doing anything - then you should support building and burning more coal since that is the cheapest and easiest.

I don't think there is a position for people who are both very worried about climate change and severe weather events to go harder on solar and wind.

 

[poshman]

It only works in other countries apparently.

There does seem to be a lot of this reactionary vibe.

It is almost like the left is upset that the Liberals are proposing a climate and energy alternative. That they want to do something about it. Is it that the proposed solution is different or that people simply believe they don't care?

 

[Kram]

You’re already talking about Duttons announcement as a plan as if it has any more substance than the word nuclear written on a single page & 7 names of places where coal power stations exist.

That’s it. It’s not a plan. It’s a political gambit. It could be developed into a plan but it’s ridiculous to talk about it as a plan at this stage.

Can't really just say that with 100% certainty, have to wait and see what else they put forward.

In saying that I don't really trust them much either, could just be all bs.

 

[Taylor]

There's more work into the nuclear plan so far than there was on the NBN.

I would prefer all options put to the public prior to the election but ultimately I think the ALP could just jump on board with idea and get everything they want regarding moving our massive reliance on coal into zero emissions.

I expect we will be enriching uranium in Australia for reactors and weapons fairly soon anyway in time for our new warships.

The nuclear waste for your entire life's energy needs is the size of a can of coke. We can be paid a fortune to stick crates of it in a big concrete bunker at the end of a railway by the rest of the world and offset the operation of our own reactors for a dividend to the people every year. It might even mean power could be free.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I have been fascinated by the energy transition for some years and read everything I can on the subject. Generally I have become pro nuclear power over this time period as I think it is necessary for the world to be able to decarbonise. Whether it is necessary or desirable for Australia is up for grabs, but I sway towards the view that Australia would benefit from it. I think the Coalition have made a dog’s breakfast of messaging on their policy and made a mistake by announcing so little detail. I also think they are probably on the right track to build some nuclear power stations on the site of coal plants and to fund it through govt.

In relation to the GenCost report what is not well reported is that it analyses things from an investor’s perspective not from a final retail cost perspective. The upshot of this is that it assumes that the capital investment in nuclear needs to be paid back and a profit made in 30 years. Thus the prices reflected in GenCost compare a fully paid for Nuclear Power Station over 30 years that is still perfectly capable of operating for another 30 years versus wind turbines and solar panels that, at the end of 25 or 30 years, are ready for recycling or land fill. It is not an apples for apples comparison. The whole question of the long term funding and the long lead time for construction are, of course, issues to be considered.

Also to be considered is that there is a report called the Net Zero Australia report produced by a bunch of academics based on the principles of the Net Zero America report, produced by Princeton. Net Zero Australia did not consider nuclear for Australia in depth but did do some sensitivity analysis. They used the previous version of GenCost where nuclear was deemed to be approx 6 times the price of renewables. They said nuclear should be monitored and considered if prices fall by 30 or 40% and the renewables rollout is constrained by availability of materials, labour, social licence etc. As the latest GenCost report now has nuclear at twice the price of renewables and the rollout is not progressing well it seems like their criteria may have been met.

One of the leads on the Princeton Net Zero America report is an academic called Jesse Jenkins, who is probably the most respected academic on zero or low emissions grids in the US. He is very big on the need for some clean firm energy generation in a grid to bring down costs. To my understanding he supports this as a generality as well as for the US.

I think I will stop there. I might feel moved to write more later.

One thing missing from all the anti nuclear costings is the potential for private investment to massively lower costs and how technology to reuse waste product has improved dramatically in recent times.Which is why the CSIRO costings are utter bullshit and the ABC reporting on the viability the lowest standard of journalism Ive seen in my life time. Nuclear energy is expected to make a massive comeback in terms of its use all over the world with massive projects in China, India and Saudi Arabia yet somehow people are believing govt departments with zero nuclear experts ssaying otherwise with the primary reaseon being recent advances in the technology in reusing waste.

How many countries must be on the wrong path if the utter rubbish being said in oz media is right about costings. Have a look at Ontario Canada as an example of how nuclear energy has lowered energy costs there. Also the USA has just opened a 358 billion dollar nuclear energy plant and is building more. Net zero is impossible without a baseload energy source. Its either long term reliance on coal, gas or nuclear.
Im for action on climate change.

 

[poshman]

Middle-class earners are the most targeted group for IRS audits

Middle-class earners are the most targeted group for IRS audits, per Moneywise. In fact, 63% of new audits as of Summer 2023 targeted taxpayers with incomes of less than $200,000, according to figures compiled by The Wall Street Journal’s editorial board, which dubbed the $200,000 earner the...

unusualwhales.com

Many of us knew this was going to be the outcome when the thousands of extra agents were hired... Shouted down and mocked here at the time.

 

[E Shed]

One thing missing from all the anti nuclear costings is the potential for private investment to massively lower costs and how technology to reuse waste product has improved dramatically in recent times.Which is why the CSIRO costings are utter bullshit and the ABC reporting on the viability the lowest standard of journalism Ive seen in my life time. Nuclear energy is expected to make a massive comeback in terms of its use all over the world with massive projects in China, India and Saudi Arabia yet somehow people are believing govt departments with zero nuclear experts ssaying otherwise with the primary reaseon being recent advances in the technology in reusing waste.

How many countries must be on the wrong path if the utter rubbish being said in oz media is right about costings. Have a look at Ontario Canada as an example of how nuclear energy has lowered energy costs there. Also the USA has just opened a 358 billion dollar nuclear energy plant and is building more. Net zero is impossible without a baseload energy source. Its either long term reliance on coal, gas or nuclear.
Im for action on climate change.

I thought Dutton said the government will be funding 100% of the costs?

 

[Taylor]

I thought Dutton said the government will be funding 100% of the costs?

I'd hope so. Then it can be run like the trains in Perth.

Edit. In fact, if they are paired with desal then both the electric and water needs of the people could be entirely government controlled and supplemented by consolidated revenue as a political choice.

 

[Randomizor]

Petter Dutton’s son and Hunter Biden seem like they’d get along

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Petter Dutton’s son and Hunter Biden seem like they’d get along

Geez I would have thought any politicians child should be off limits unless their behaviour can be directly linked to their parents work Eg Hunter. Pretty low blow by the self described righteous ones on the left. For what its worth I said trhe same thing about those having a go at Albo's new partner. Do better.

 

[E Shed]

I thought Dutton said the government will be funding 100% of the costs?

was referring to his contention that private investment has the potential to dramatically lower the costs.

I'm all in favour of the government owning essential utilities. I didn't think the Liberal Party were though.

I imagine they would be looking to privatise it about 5 minutes after it came online.

 

[Randomizor]

Geez I would have thought any politicians child should be off limits unless their behaviour can be directly linked to their parents work Eg Hunter. Pretty low blow by the self described righteous ones on the left. For what its worth I said trhe same thing about those having a go at Albo's new partner. Do better.

It’s not me trying to introducing legislation that would see my own son in prison for 2 years

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I thought Dutton said the government will be funding 100% of the costs?

No. Again you seem to have an issue with the truth. What's been said is that's while its currently illegal to create nuclear energy there is no scope for private investment. If that were to change costs would go down hugely just like they have in Ontario Canada and the recently opened the 35Billion dollar Vogtle plant in Georgia, USA.
I'd love you to explain how you think achieving net zero is possible without reliable base load energy. Its a choice of fossil fuels or nuclear for that.

Vogtle Unit 4 enters commercial operation

/PRNewswire/ -- Georgia Power declared today that Plant Vogtle Unit 4 has entered commercial operation and is now serving customers and the State of Georgia....

www.prnewswire.com

Ontario Welcomes $80 Million Nuclear Manufacturing Investment in Cambridge | Laura Smith, MPP

The Ontario government is welcoming a $80 million investment by BWX Technologies, Inc. (BWXT) to expand their Cambridge nuclear manufacturing plant. Their investment will create more than 250 new skilled, unionized jobs in Cambridge and support Ontario’s expansion of reliable, affordable and...

laurasmithmpp.ca

 

[Taylor]

I think the more Dutton's family ends up in the media the more it normalises him.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Not proven it was coke or something (probs was) but Bob Hawke’s daughter was a heroin addict. There no doubt have been other MPs’ family members who have transgressed but bloody kids will do bloody kid things, so taking political shots at the MPs themselves is pretty cheap.

 

[BlueE]

Julian Assange's wife Stella says they will seek a pardon as part of US plea deal

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is expected to return to Australia after court proceedings in a US territory, and face no new prison time.

www.sbs.com.au

Stella already in Sydney waiting??