Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

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Bicco said:
But it's not 100% bullshit that prices go up once nuclear comes online is it?
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Are you being serious? Compare the 12% rise with how RE is going up all over the world. Have a look at the massiv number of blackouts across Europe. Im for RE as a a major part of the solution but have a look at energy prices skyrocketing in the places that rely on it the most or compare Ontario's energy prices to the rest of Canada. Yes it is utter bullshit that RE is cheaper without the massive subsides than nuclear plus the other cost that's not included in the comparisons is how much extra infrastructure is required to get RE online compared to how nuclear can use existing power networks. Australian 'experts' like the CSIRO get laughed at by people from coutries that already have nuclear energy.
 

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wahooo said:
There's a prohibition on nuclear. However, as far as I'm aware, there's no prohibition on estimating how much things cost.

They absolutely could include private investment in their (non-existent) costings if they wanted to. They could estimate a certain level of private investment and take that into account. It'd be a pretty flimsy estimate and their would be little utility in it but they could if they wanted.

If we follow your reasoning, the rational conclusion would be that they can't cost the project at all (ie, can't even estimate the spend the taxpayer will fork out) until the prohibition on nuclear is abolished.

Yes private investment could bring down costs of the technology etc., I accept that much. In fact, I think all posters would accept that point, it's basic economics. But even with a healthy level of private investment, we're still going to be forking out a lot of money for Dutton's policy. The issue with forking out that money, is that these things aren't going to be connected to the grid for a significant period of time and the Coalition don't have a policy to get us through that interim period. I'm not opposed to nuclear, I'm opposed to the Coalition's attempts to stifle investment in renewables because they think it will win them votes.

Was it on Insiders on Sunday that Ted O'Brien changed tune and said they'd be building multiple reactors at each location instead of one reactor at each? Guess we had better add a few zeroes to their non-existent costing. The opposition needs to get their shit together and get on the same page.
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I would have thought in the planning phase things should be changing. In fact all costings should change in the planning phase to get the best result. I find it bizare that people expect the costings now as the opposition has never been demanded to have costings this far our from an election for a policy I can remember. I have way more concerns with the lack of information from Bowen as he's in government. I don;t trust either side of politics will do what they say they are going to do so yep they'll be mistakes in the LNP's costings just like there is in the ALP's policy promises. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly see one side as superior to the other on most issues in recent times. Both sides are equally terrible in my book.
 
Sherriff Incorporated said:
I would have thought in the planning phase things should be changing. In fact all costings should change in the planning phase to get the best result. I find it bizare that people expect the costings now as the opposition has never been demanded to have costings this far our from an election for a policy I can remember. I have way more concerns with the lack of information from Bowen as he's in government. I don;t trust either side of politics will do what they say they are going to do so yep they'll be mistakes in the LNP's costings just like there is in the ALP's policy promises. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly see one side as superior to the other on most issues in recent times. Both sides are equally terrible in my book.
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That's all beside the point.

The point is that your claim that the coalition need to wait for the law to change to cost their policy taking into account private investment is not true. They could do that at any time they wanted.
 
I doubt it. First , there's a strong historical precedent of no single term government in Australia. Second, most poll analysts seem to be saying either a narrow Labor majority or a hung parliament with Labor to stay in power with the support of teals and greens. But finally the most reliable predictor of all, Sportsbet, still has Labor at 1.50 to LNP 2.50.
 
wahooo said:
That's all beside the point.

The point is that your claim that the coalition need to wait for the law to change to cost their policy taking into account private investment is not true. They could do that at any time they wanted.
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So you realise you're agreeing with me in principal. Allowing for private investment will change the costings was my point and that will also make costings made by the CSIRO look absurd. 'Private investment in nuclear energy is the reason why so many countries have revisited nuclear energy in recent times, well that and advances in how nuclear waste can be used to create more energy.
 
The Feeder Club said:
I doubt it. First , there's a strong historical precedent of no single term government in Australia. Second, most poll analysts seem to be saying either a narrow Labor majority or a hung parliament with Labor to stay in power with the support of teals and greens. But finally the most reliable predictor of all, Sportsbet, still has Labor at 1.50 to LNP 2.50.
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Thats now wait till the interest rates go up.
 
Sherriff Incorporated said:
So you realise you're agreeing with me in principal. Allowing for private investment will change the costings was my point and that will also make costings made by the CSIRO look absurd. 'Private investment in nuclear energy is the reason why so many countries have revisited nuclear energy in recent times, well that and advances in how nuclear waste can be used to create more energy.
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I already expressly acknowledged that private investment would bring down the costs of the technology. In case you missed it, it's quoted below for you:

wahooo said:
Yes private investment could bring down costs of the technology etc., I accept that much. In fact, I think all posters would accept that point, it's basic economics.
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But, no. We are not in agreement because the below claim that you made is not true:
Sherriff Incorporated said:
Because they cant allow for anyinvestment in their costings until laws are changed.
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wahooo said:
I already expressly acknowledged that private investment would bring down the costs of the technology. In case you missed it, it's quoted below for you:



But, no. We are not in agreement because the below claim that you made is not true:
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Why don't you simply look at the link I provided that demonstrates all the points Im making. In one link you can view dozens of clips showing how utter bullshit what's been said by ALP politicians and the CSIRO is. I see small nuclear reactors playing a role with RE by the way. Everything Ive said is true. If you dont want to debate and make claims I'm not telling the truth do so fine but I'll ignore your responses if you choose to do that. Again have a look at the link and see how many of the clips were made in the last 2 years. In recent tines there has been a massive renaissance in nuclear energy with massive investment in the US, Canada, Saudi Arabia, China, Bangladesh, Sweden, India, South Africa and Brazil to name just a few countries. Meanwhile under Bullshit Bowen the ALP went to the last election with a climate change policy verified by a PR Company according to them.
 
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wahooo said:
I already expressly acknowledged that private investment would bring down the costs of the technology. In case you missed it, it's quoted below for you:



But, no. We are not in agreement because the below claim that you made is not true:
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Rubbish its not true. How can you possibly know the amount of investment or put it accurately into costings until its legal to make nuclear in the first place? If you actually check in many nuclear builds now investments or equity have been used to pay for cost shortfalls.
www.linkedin.com

Embracing the Future: Private Investment in Nuclear Energy

As we stand at the crossroads of energy transition, the spotlight is increasingly turning towards nuclear power as a cornerstone of sustainable energy solutions. In recent years, we've witnessed a remarkable surge in private nuclear investments, marking a profound shift in the energy landscape.
www.linkedin.com www.linkedin.com

By the way there are 40,000 people employed directly working in the nuclear energy industry in Canada. with 75,000 pople (including the 40,000) working in the sector in some capacity. Seems a lot of people working in a field that's been labelled a fantasy in Australia I would have thought.

Protecting workers

www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca
 
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Sherriff Incorporated said:
I would have thought in the planning phase things should be changing. In fact all costings should change in the planning phase to get the best result. I find it bizare that people expect the costings now as the opposition has never been demanded to have costings this far our from an election for a policy I can remember. I have way more concerns with the lack of information from Bowen as he's in government. I don;t trust either side of politics will do what they say they are going to do so yep they'll be mistakes in the LNP's costings just like there is in the ALP's policy promises. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly see one side as superior to the other on most issues in recent times. Both sides are equally terrible in my book.
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While i have been extremely disappointed with Labor in general I think Scomo is still by far the clubhouse leader for leading a corrupt & utterly incompetent government.

Robodebt
No clawback provision in jobkeeper
Murray Darling water buyback & general mismanagement.
Airport land purchase.
Paladin clusterfk & general massive waste of money for offshore detention (including ridiculous cost of reopening Xmas Island for a photo shoot)
Colored spreadsheet for pork barreling
Multiple ministries
Etc etc.

Long way to go to catch up to that lot although Albanese is doing his best.
 
E Shed said:
While i have been extremely disappointed with Labor in general I think Scomo is still by far the clubhouse leader for leading a corrupt & utterly incompetent government.

Robodebt
No clawback provision in jobkeeper
Murray Darling water buyback & general mismanagement.
Airport land purchase.
Paladin clusterfk & general massive waste of money for offshore detention (including ridiculous cost of reopening Xmas Island for a photo shoot)
Colored spreadsheet for pork barreling
Multiple ministries
Etc etc.

Long way to go to catch up to that lot although Albanese is doing his best.
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I think the ALP have and I hated Morrison.
Sorry but Bowen is a deadset disaster as climate minister.Under his watch we've increased sales overseas of fossil fuels and dramatically increased our contribution to climate change while causing mass poverty by decreasing the amount of fossil fuels available in Australia. Under the ALP the amount we lead the world in terms of decreasing household wealth while infrastructure project after infrastructure project is a total disaster. Under the ALP more Australians are living under the poverty than ever before and we are staying just out of a recession due almost soley to mass migration. Under the ALP every single problem they said they would fix has gotten worse and we've seen public servants get massive wage rises while food bank services get more and more stretched to their limits. Under the ALP so many things they said they support have less funding than ever before.
 
If the first 20 minutes of this debate is any guide, RFK is the winner. These two are both terrible.
We like to criticise our pollies but at least they're coherent
 
The Feeder Club said:
If the first 20 minutes of this debate is any guide, RFK is the winner. These two are both terrible.
We like to criticise our pollies but at least they're coherent
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Barnaby Joyce, Chris Bowen, Peter Dutton, Bob Katter, Jacqui Lambi, Angus Taylor are just some of the pollies I'll say prove otherwise. Of them all though I'd rate Chris Bowen the absolute worst. He can't get through a press conference without having an absolute dumby spit at anyone daring to ask a tough question while he has major anger management issues.
 
Sherriff Incorporated said:
Barnaby Joyce, Chris Bowen, Peter Dutton, Bob Katter, Jacqui Lambi, Angus Taylor are just some of the pollies I'll say prove otherwise. Of them all though I'd rate Chris Bowen the absolute worst. He can't get through a press conference without having an absolute dumby spit at anyone daring to ask a tough question while he has major anger management issues.
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I've actually never seen a worse debate than this. The highlight is arguing about pr0n stars.
 
Taylor said:
Well it sure looks like someone pulls the strings behind the scenes for the current President of the USA.
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Possibly…

Politics Reaction GIF
 
Bicco said:
Just watching the debate now. Biden will.not win any votes from this.
It's so sad that these two are the option for Americans.
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Agreed, wasn’t his best showing.

Where was the fact checking? I expect politicians to lie a little but talking about things so far removed from reality like “post-birth abortions” really needs to be picked up on.
 
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