Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Bring back Drum]

The point is though there is a real impact on lots of peoples lives when you shut even some things down. People lose a week of income, businesses that are struggling hard, struggle that extra bit more with no revenue. There are real tangible impacts on peoples lives when you shut some things down that is outside the creature comforts people enjoy like going to a cafe or playing/watching cricket.

Did the Peel region really need to shutdown? Surely not?

I think issue comes from its timing & the fact that families & groups were still travelling for holidays. If it was mid February for example, I think we could be more confident that any infection remained localised & we could enforce a smaller lockdown area.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think issue comes from its timing & the fact that families & groups were still travelling for holidays. If it was mid February for example, I think we could be more confident that any infection remained localised & we could enforce a smaller lockdown area.

A good point, in fact, it was probably peak travel time given school was due to go back the week after.

I wonder if the approach changes come the next outbreak, whether rightly or wrongly, there will be some backlash if there ends up being only 1 community case from this, it will be an easy in for the libs to claw back a % or 5 with their base. Conversely, I reckon McGowan would pick up even more support if there were no new cases tomorrow and Thursday and therefore ended the lockdown a day earlier. Would show he's flexible while still treating the virus very seriously given the immediate reaction

 

[Cesoir]

Hate to be negative as well but I feel we are heading towards the very difficult situation where COVID is an annual mutating thing like the flu and a new vaccine is needed every year, most of the rest of the world has already given up on fighting it properly. I think I heard this morning that vaccines are only 60% effective against the new strains of the virus. It will be interesting to see where we are at at the end of this year with a lot of the current vaccines handed out.

I expect this will be the case, it will just become one of the annual flu vaccines available. Hopefully it goes from global pandemic to nuisance value like most of the others have done over the years. Swine flu infected 60 million people in the USA (COVID so far 27 million) but was not as deadly as COVID 19.

In 2009, H1N1 was spreading fast around the world, so the World Health Organization called it a pandemic. Since then, people have continued to get sick from swine flu, but not as many. While swine flu isn't as scary as it seemed a few years ago, it's still important to protect yourself from getting it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I expect this will be the case, it will just become one of the annual flu vaccines available. Hopefully it goes from global pandemic to nuisance value like most of the others have done over the years. Swine flu infected 60 million people in the USA (COVID so far 27 million) but was not as deadly as COVID 19.

In 2009, H1N1 was spreading fast around the world, so the World Health Organization called it a pandemic. Since then, people have continued to get sick from swine flu, but not as many. While swine flu isn't as scary as it seemed a few years ago, it's still important to protect yourself from getting it.

Given the (rightful) hysteria around COVID and its increased deadliness, its going to a bold government that bites the bullet on opening borders. Reckon there will be some countries where its close to a decade before you walk on and off a plane like we used to.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

A good point, in fact, it was probably peak travel time given school was due to go back the week after.

I wonder if the approach changes come the next outbreak, whether rightly or wrongly, there will be some backlash if there ends up being only 1 community case from this, it will be an easy in for the libs to claw back a % or 5 with their base. Conversely, I reckon McGowan would pick up even more support if there were no new cases tomorrow and Thursday and therefore ended the lockdown a day earlier. Would show he's flexible while still treating the virus very seriously given the immediate reaction

Libs would need to be able to hammer home on the governments failure with regards to testing workers in quarantine hotels, stopping security guards having second jobs and the like. With that said I don't think the public and media are listening to them right now, so best case scenario I can see is that they can prevent McGowan gaining the upper house majority, retain seats for people like Kirkup and get ready for a much more competitive election next time.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Libs would need to be able to hammer home on the governments failure with regards to testing workers in quarantine hotels, stopping security guards having second jobs and the like. With that said I don't think the public and media are listening to them right now, so best case scenario I can see is that they can prevent McGowan gaining the upper house majority, retain seats for people like Kirkup and get ready for a much more competitive election next time.

Oh yeah, the election is a lost cause, I think I saw somewhere that labour is 1.03 with bookies to win the next election. That's literally free money, McGowan would probably have to be discovered to be a sex offender / murderer to lose the election, even then, Labour could probably still win with a different person in charge

 

[Purple_Turtle]

McGowan would probably have to be discovered to be a sex offender / murderer to lose the election, even then, Labour could probably still win with a different person in charge

Not 100% convinced.

Outside of Mark McGowan how many people in Labor party are really liked? Ben Wyatt is probably the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Cook probably gets some kudos from the pandemic, but when focus goes from that to our record ambulance ramping I doubt he'll be coming off so great. And beyond that I can't think of anyone, which is why the Labor campaign is so focused around McGowan.

With that said it's a pretty academic discussion; McGowan will be leading Labor to the election and they should win big.

 

[Belnakor]

Not 100% convinced.

Outside of Mark McGowan how many people in Labor party are really liked? Ben Wyatt is probably the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Cook probably gets some kudos from the pandemic, but when focus goes from that to our record ambulance ramping I doubt he'll be coming off so great. And beyond that I can't think of anyone, which is why the Labor campaign is so focused around McGowan.

With that said it's a pretty academic discussion; McGowan will be leading Labor to the election and they should win big.

I think it will be interesting to see if McGowan's popularity translates into the ballot box.

As we saw from the press conference today, he does like to make it all about himself. He rarely mentions the Labor party - its all about the decisions HE is making. It doesn't leave alot of oxygen in the room for the people who need to actually get voted for.

Will be an interesting piece of analysis post the election to see if leader popularity = election landslide.

 

[masai]

Bit rich considering Kirkup can't even keep COVID conspiracy theorists out of his own party.

Clap, clap, clap is all that the Member for Dawesville, is hearing.

 

[Bring back Drum]

A good point, in fact, it was probably peak travel time given school was due to go back the week after.

I wonder if the approach changes come the next outbreak, whether rightly or wrongly, there will be some backlash if there ends up being only 1 community case from this, it will be an easy in for the libs to claw back a % or 5 with their base. Conversely, I reckon McGowan would pick up even more support if there were no new cases tomorrow and Thursday and therefore ended the lockdown a day earlier. Would show he's flexible while still treating the virus very seriously given the immediate reaction

That’s politics, like umpiring you generally please around 50% of the people while the other half think your a moron.
He’s fortunate that he’s made enough good decisions that have ended well not to mention the positive spin he puts on it that about 85% of the people trust him.
The comment he made today when comparing the Sydney beaches outbreak & ours & the number of tests we had in the first 24 hours was double that of theirs was embarrassing.
He must be confident that it’s pretty much under control already after his comments today as there was a lot of back-patting.
& who said there was going to be no campaigning this week!

 

[Purple Jesus]

Hate to be negative as well but I feel we are heading towards the very difficult situation where COVID is an annual mutating thing like the flu and a new vaccine is needed every year, most of the rest of the world has already given up on fighting it properly. I think I heard this morning that vaccines are only 60% effective against the new strains of the virus. It will be interesting to see where we are at at the end of this year with a lot of the current vaccines handed out.

Don't worry too much - the mRNA vaccines don't need to be changed each year like the flu vacc does - the new one's are proving to handle the new varients. HAve a look at the numbers coming out of Israel. Jury's still out on the SA varient. I'm not sure where you're seeing the 60% effectiveness but that's not what we're seeing in most news over here (UK). 600k vaccinated in one day the other day. Remember, the vaccines aren't designed to stop it from spreading or for you to catch it at all, they're designed to limit the severity of the disease so that far fewer are hospitalised and even fewer die as a result.

 

[wayToGo_]

He’s fortunate that he’s made enough good decisions that have ended well not to mention the positive spin he puts on it that about 85% of the people trust him.
The comment he made today when comparing the Sydney beaches outbreak & ours & the number of tests we had in the first 24 hours was double that of theirs was embarrassing.

And this is why the Liberal party aren't even making ground. They (pollies, lib media, staunch supporters) are so busy trying to find and highlight anything that McGowan says or does that they can try and spin negatively and are so consumed by it that they are not presenting an alternative (possibly better) government. Salim is clearly biased but he's not wrong - who is Zak? It is appalling that someone with little to no experience is leading their party and has spent a fair bit of time putting out spot fires in his own party. How did it become this bad?

They aren't getting cut through at all. The AMA President who desperately wants to be a hero for the Liberal party, gets egg on his face almost every time he opens his mouth. I can only assume he is in an echo chamber because the public really don't seem to like him but he continues with the same media strategy on a month by month basis. Meanwhile he changes his story every five seconds thinking nobody will notice and has pretty much been wrong about every single thing he has said relating to Covid. Guys like him are not helping the cause, nor are others fixated with McGowan. Provide a viable alternative ffs!

If you are a member of the WA Liberal party (I used to be) I implore you to stand up and say enough is enough and demand some change. Having to nominate Covid and climate change conspiracy theorists recently is an appalling indicator of the position the party finds itself. And seemingly with less than a handful of women in the Young Liberals it is pretty clear things aren't going to change soon without a massive overhaul.

McGowan is far from perfect but he doesn't need to be. The opposition is an embarrassment.

 

[Monument Hills]

The Swan shire fires are horrendous, 30 plus homes lost.
Just a thought where are the big water bombers promised by the Federal government after the last fire season ?

yep. and where's our thoughts and prayers and cele

Given the (rightful) hysteria around COVID and its increased deadliness, its going to a bold government that bites the bullet on opening borders. Reckon there will be some countries where its close to a decade before you walk on and off a plane like we used to.

geez I hope not once we are all vaccinated. There are plenty of far worse diseases in terms of mortality rates than rona and it hasn't stopped us in the past going to many countries in Africa, Middle East and Asia in which they are found. You just get the appropriate vaccinations for them before you go.

 

[gungho]

Sorry, but I don't think he's done a good job with the handling of the coronavirus.

Unlike other states, he had the luxury of time to prepare for the second wave and, being a good Navy man, must have known that the biggest risk of an outbreak would come from hotel quarantine with return travellers.
He is always the first to blame other states when an outbreak occurs but here are some prudent things the other states do that we don't.

1 All of the staff on the front line of return travellers (security guards, health workers, hotel workers) wear proper protective equipment. As has been documented by witnesses in Perth hotels, over here they don't.
2. Do regular testing of all workers involved in hotel quarantine. (most states do this daily) The semi regular testing of hotel workers and security was only implemented about a week ago in WA and even then there were cracks in the system.
3. Do thorough checks of the air conditioning system and ventilation in all facilities to make sure they are up to scratch.
4 Properly train people like security guards on the protocols of what to do and who to contact if they are feeling sick (I understand Victoria cocked this up about a year ago but they are far more thorough than WA at this now) to ensure, for example, that the person with symptoms immediately self isolates and also goes to a testing center rather than the waiting room of a GP.
5 Does tests on sewerage to get an understanding if Covid has been in particular areas (Every state does this except WA).
6 Has an effective tracing system. We only got the covid safe app up and running in the last few weeks (other states had it going months ago).
7 Pay workers on the front line of the hotel quarantine more to ensure they don't become, for example, ride share drivers in their part time.

Sorry Mark but you talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Before anyone pipes up, I am not particularly left wing or right, and have nothing personally against Mark McGowan - just don't think he is that proactive, or intelligent in the handling of this. I think the reason we have had no community transmission is a combination of being so isolated and also more good luck than management. I am also not a conspiracy theorist - as most, if not all, of these point have been made more eloquently than me by Andrew Miller, the president of the AMA.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

who is Zak? It is appalling that someone with little to no experience is leading their party and has spent a fair bit of time putting out spot fires in his own party. How did it become this bad?

Don't get the criticism of Zak's age. He either makes the grade or he doesn't, IMO has shown a bit more than Nahan and Harvey, and experienced in this case means "served under the Barnett government" which isn't really what voters are looking for.

I agree about the spotfires you mentioned the party is putting out with regards to religious nuts and conspiracists, but the not enough young women is a bit off given the two Liberal candidates who ruined last week for the party were both female.

Go past Covid and the McGowan government is nothing to write home about. The failure to achieve anything of substance in 4 years, walking disasters like Sue Ellery and the former fisheries minister, the Outer Harbour, our current healthcare system, etc. Only reason the election isn't competitive is Covid.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

yep. and where's our thoughts and prayers and cele

geez I hope not once we are all vaccinated. There are plenty of far worse diseases in terms of mortality rates than rona and it hasn't stopped us in the past going to many countries in Africa, Middle East and Asia in which they are found. You just get the appropriate vaccinations for them before you go.

True, I’m probably being very pessimistic

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Don't worry too much - the mRNA vaccines don't need to be changed each year like the flu vacc does - the new one's are proving to handle the new varients. HAve a look at the numbers coming out of Israel. Jury's still out on the SA varient. I'm not sure where you're seeing the 60% effectiveness but that's not what we're seeing in most news over here (UK). 600k vaccinated in one day the other day. Remember, the vaccines aren't designed to stop it from spreading or for you to catch it at all, they're designed to limit the severity of the disease so that far fewer are hospitalised and even fewer die as a result.

Was in passing on the radio this morning but I thought it was specifically in response to Boris acknowledging and simultaneously downplaying the issue. You would know much better than me if your over there though

 

[Purple Jesus]

Was in passing on the radio this morning but I thought it was specifically in response to Boris acknowledging and simultaneously downplaying the issue. You would know much better than me if your over there though

Boris wouldn't kow his arse from his elbow. Buffoon.

 

[Waterhouzin]

Sorry, but I don't think he's done a good job with the handling of the coronavirus.

Unlike other states, he had the luxury of time to prepare for the second wave and, being a good Navy man, must have known that the biggest risk of an outbreak would come from hotel quarantine with return travellers.
He is always the first to blame other states when an outbreak occurs but here are some prudent things the other states do that we don't.

1 All of the staff on the front line of return travellers (security guards, health workers, hotel workers) wear proper protective equipment. As has been documented by witnesses in Perth hotels, over here they don't.
2. Do regular testing of all workers involved in hotel quarantine. (most states do this daily) The semi regular testing of hotel workers and security was only implemented about a week ago in WA and even then there were cracks in the system.
3. Do thorough checks of the air conditioning system and ventilation in all facilities to make sure they are up to scratch.
4 Properly train people like security guards on the protocols of what to do and who to contact if they are feeling sick (I understand Victoria cocked this up about a year ago but they are far more thorough than WA at this now) to ensure, for example, that the person with symptoms immediately self isolates and also goes to a testing center rather than the waiting room of a GP.
5 Does tests on sewerage to get an understanding if Covid has been in particular areas (Every state does this except WA).
6 Has an effective tracing system. We only got the covid safe app up and running in the last few weeks (other states had it going months ago).
7 Pay workers on the front line of the hotel quarantine more to ensure they don't become, for example, ride share drivers in their part time.

Sorry Mark but you talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Before anyone pipes up, I am not particularly left wing or right, and have nothing personally against Mark McGowan - just don't think he is that proactive, or intelligent in the handling of this. I think the reason we have had no community transmission is a combination of being so isolated and also more good luck than management. I am also not a conspiracy theorist - as most, if not all, of these point have been made more eloquently than me by Andrew Miller, the president of the AMA.

Can't say how much I agree with all of this, have been saying a similar thing on the main board "training restriction" thread.

The border controls are one cog in the wheel, there are many other facets needed to keep us operating as a free and open society but for some unknown reason our State Govt just seems to ignore them all.

A lot of the items quoted above are just simple, cost effective and easy to implement protocols - FFS how hard is it to make sure your hotel staff wear masks and if they get sick they immediately isolate and get tested ?? If we had done those two simple things then we would all still be living a normal bloody life right now!

There has to be someone in the State Govt or Health Dept be held accountable for this and we need to make sure that these systems are improved immediately - This falls mainly on the media to keep driving the questions at the pressers but if anyone here has McGowan's contact details shout out !!!

 

[Waterhouzin]

Actually, I did a search on-line and have emailed the Premiers Dept just then !
Gungho I hope you don't mind I paraphrased a lot of your comments above, plus added a few of my own.
Interesting to see if I get a response ??

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Govt’s hotel mask revelation amid no new cases

The State Government has revealed shock new details about mask wearing mandates among hotel quarantine staff amid news WA has recorded its second consecutive day of zero locally-acquired cases.

thewest.com.au

Good form here from the McGowan government. /s

 

[BlueE]

And this is why the Liberal party aren't even making ground. They (pollies, lib media, staunch supporters) are so busy trying to find and highlight anything that McGowan says or does that they can try and spin negatively and are so consumed by it that they are not presenting an alternative (possibly better) government. Salim is clearly biased but he's not wrong - who is Zak? It is appalling that someone with little to no experience is leading their party and has spent a fair bit of time putting out spot fires in his own party. How did it become this bad?

They aren't getting cut through at all. The AMA President who desperately wants to be a hero for the Liberal party, gets egg on his face almost every time he opens his mouth. I can only assume he is in an echo chamber because the public really don't seem to like him but he continues with the same media strategy on a month by month basis. Meanwhile he changes his story every five seconds thinking nobody will notice and has pretty much been wrong about every single thing he has said relating to Covid. Guys like him are not helping the cause, nor are others fixated with McGowan. Provide a viable alternative ffs!

If you are a member of the WA Liberal party (I used to be) I implore you to stand up and say enough is enough and demand some change. Having to nominate Covid and climate change conspiracy theorists recently is an appalling indicator of the position the party finds itself. And seemingly with less than a handful of women in the Young Liberals it is pretty clear things aren't going to change soon without a massive overhaul.

McGowan is far from perfect but he doesn't need to be. The opposition is an embarrassment.

I don't think it's that he has too little experience, but his tweet today making himself out to be some sort of hero for running in the heat, by himself with a mask on, is indicative of his lack of leadership and the rudderless ship the Libs are. Look at the comments. People get how stupid and dangerous wearing a mask when exercising, but has he led with asking for an exemption for runners, bikers and footer players for example? No.

Has he put the pressure on the gov't about hotel quarantine after months of not keeping standards that match other states? Has he put forward a plan so lockdowns and shutting internal boarders won't happen again with no warning, and sport and travel can resume with a realistic and integrated approach?

They need to start following the actual science and expert and respected opinion on COVID.

COVID-19: A realistic approach to community management - Quadrant

This not the time for those who should know better to publicly argue for one or other COVID-19 vaccine, not when full and adequate evidence for any such choice is well down the line. What the current moment most definitely does demand is early treatment, especially for the aged and most...

quadrant.org.au

 

[salim malik]

Can't say how much I agree with all of this, have been saying a similar thing on the main board "training restriction" thread.

The border controls are one cog in the wheel, there are many other facets needed to keep us operating as a free and open society but for some unknown reason our State Govt just seems to ignore them all.

A lot of the items quoted above are just simple, cost effective and easy to implement protocols - FFS how hard is it to make sure your hotel staff wear masks and if they get sick they immediately isolate and get tested ?? If we had done those two simple things then we would all still be living a normal bloody life right now!

There has to be someone in the State Govt or Health Dept be held accountable for this and we need to make sure that these systems are improved immediately - This falls mainly on the media to keep driving the questions at the pressers but if anyone here has McGowan's contact details shout out !!!

One locally acquired case in the last 10 months in a world wide pandemic. I think that gives McGowan a big tick.
We Have all been leading a normal life, were have you been hiding.
The opposition supporters coming out of the wood work to find a supposed gotcha moment is pretty sad.

 

[salim malik]

The point is though there is a real impact on lots of peoples lives when you shut even some things down. People lose a week of income, businesses that are struggling hard, struggle that extra bit more with no revenue. There are real tangible impacts on peoples lives when you shut some things down that is outside the creature comforts people enjoy like going to a cafe or playing/watching cricket.

Did the Peel region really need to shutdown? Surely not?

People travel to Peel to work from the metro area my wife being one of them.
She is a nurse attending vulnerable people in the community down there. For obvious reasons she is now doing her calls by video link.
I can understand the Peel shutdown.
If the attitude was taken that it's only one case and let's play a wait and see and there was an influx of cases there would be a lot more businesses shut down for a lot longer.

 

[Cesoir]

For the last year we have been living in a bubble of normality here while most of the world suffers horribly with this thing. We have lost one acquaintance in the UK to COVID and have had many friends in the UK and Europe who have been infected. They have all said that it is a horrible thing, not just "another flu".

So while there may have been mistakes made and things that could have been handled better, let's all acknowledge the good that has been done to keep us virtually COVID free. This is a moving feast, and while we can all sit behind our keyboards and say we would have done better, I very much doubt that is the case - we just don't have enough information to make those claims. There's nobody sitting in judgement of our theoretical "better ways" of managing things.

I am not a rusted on Labor voter, but I voted for McGowan in the last election and I'll vote for him again unless someone provides a better alternative.