Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Bicco]

The US have 'All' rejected the conservative right. Conservatism is dead.

Can you explain how you came to that conclusion?

Is it based on the senate seats won and lost?

House seats won and lost?

Swings within states or certain demographics?

I never said all.
Im not talking about any particular seats. What I am saying is that in the last 3 elections of Brazil, Australia and the US, the conservative parties have all had their policies rejected by the electorate.
It will be interesting, say in the case of the LNP, to see if they can accept that the community wants action on climate change and they adjust their policies accordingly. With their current leader I doubt it.

 

[Bicco]

Sorry mate. Biden's entire shtick in his decades in office has been that he supports whatever the mainstream of the Democrats supports. If you think he somehow represents "Republican values" I don't know what to tell you.

There's a difference in Republican policy pre and post Reagan.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

There's a difference in Republican policy pre and post Reagan.

What's that got to do with anything?

Also Reagan was a follow-on from Goldwater, and I'm not sure "Democrats best represent Republicans who liked the party the way it was before 1964" is a great argument for anything. Joe Biden exemplifies the traditional Republican value of thinking that setbacks in foreign affairs are due to the penetration of communist agents into the US government? Really need to tease out what is meant here.

 

[Bicco]

What's that got to do with anything?

Also Reagan was a follow-on from Goldwater, and I'm not sure "Democrats best represent Republicans who liked the party the way it was before 1964" is a great argument for anything. Joe Biden exemplifies the traditional Republican value of thinking that setbacks in foreign affairs are due to the penetration of communist agents into the US government? Really need to tease out what is meant here.

What are Republican values?
Here's Eisenhowers platform in 1956

 

[BanjoRules]

The virtue signalling religious types that are guilty of some of the worst crimes against humanity having the audacity to judge others for just being who they are, and harming no-one in the process, pisses me off no end.

Does your religious types include Muslims ?

 

[Purple_Turtle]

What are Republican values?
Here's Eisenhowers platform in 1956
View attachment 1554705

Well that's a misleading graphic.

The asylum seekers on the platform refer to people in Eastern Europe displaced by the Soviet Union and Communism; supporting them was obvious and a very different issue to millions of people streaming across the Southern Border illegally.

On unions the Republicans rejected the main thing asked for by the union movement, which was a repeal of "right to work" laws. Which is fairly consistent with the conservative view on them now, where conservative justices ruled in Janus vs AFSCME that public sector unions demanding union fees from non-union employees is a violation of the first amendment.

I don't recall any Republican coming out calling for a scrapping of social security, equal pay regardless of sex, or assistance for low-income communities. Do you?

Anyway if we're going to this level of debate I'll go find my graphic about how JFK would actually be Republican now...

 

[Square Peg]

Democrats to maintain control of the United States Senate

Democrats will maintain control of the Senate in the next term after it was declared that Nevada Democratic Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto has won her reelection campaign.

www.foxnews.com

Traditional boomer conservatism is dead. Australia, Brazil and now the US have all rejected the conservative right. Will those on the right be able to accept this, and work to make the changes that those in power clearly have a mandate for? Or will they fight tooth and nail to hang on to and promote 'Traditional values'?
Looking forwards to the conspiracy theories over personal reflection.

Interesting take. I'd personally be hesitant to assume any long term trends based on a few elections in the last two years. I mean do you think Sweden, Italy and France are making long term lurches to the far right based on recent gains by the neofascists there?

 

[Square Peg]

I'd also say I am not sure how much results in a system with voluntary first past the post voting are relevant to us with compulsory and preferential voting. For better or worse our system will naturally produce more centrist government. The ALP left and the LNP dries are a helluva lot closer policy wise than the radical wings of the Republicans and Democrats.

 

[poshman]

Democrats to maintain control of the United States Senate

Democrats will maintain control of the Senate in the next term after it was declared that Nevada Democratic Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto has won her reelection campaign.

www.foxnews.com

Traditional boomer conservatism is dead. Australia, Brazil and now the US have all rejected the conservative right. Will those on the right be able to accept this, and work to make the changes that those in power clearly have a mandate for? Or will they fight tooth and nail to hang on to and promote 'Traditional values'?
Looking forwards to the conspiracy theories over personal reflection.

I never said all.
Im not talking about any particular seats. What I am saying is that in the last 3 elections of Brazil, Australia and the US, the conservative parties have all had their policies rejected by the electorate.
It will be interesting, say in the case of the LNP, to see if they can accept that the community wants action on climate change and they adjust their policies accordingly. With their current leader I doubt it.

So the republicans gain seats but were rejected?

And as you can see... you did say all.

What were the differences between ALP and LNP on climate change in the last election?

 

[Taylor]

Australia's system certainly lends itself more towards appealing to a broad middle who are entirely politically disinterested. As far as even hearing about a politician is enough to make them disliked - which is why so much effort is made to keep discussion about politicians who aren't liked outside of their electorate - such as Joyce.

I don't believe the majority of voters in Australia consider the policy of their options, or recognise the name of the candidates outside of the blanket marketing to them. This is why democrat candidates in the US did very well with otherwise disinterested young people. TikTok mass flags of conservative content has it removed and it's one voice traffic from then with broad messages to both connect with young people and enforce the idea that you're socially bad to not agree with the group. Paid influencers (Which is their purpose) to promote messages such as cancelling student loan debts and maintaining abortion access.

End result is people who don't know the name of the person they are voting for and don't care to know anything they personally feel - they are just looking for the party to tick - just like Australia.

The republicans should push for compulsory voting. I think it will settle their nation down. They won't win power for a long time but the political discussion will need to be far less polarising or it will turn off that sizable chunk of voters who tick "didn't bother to turn up" each election.

They could also have a voter roll that matches directly to your place of residence so when you attend on the day with your ballot, even if you got it in the mail, you have your ID to prove it's you before it's lodged. They might need to open the polls a couple of weeks early to allow everyone their chance to attend.

 

[stax on the mull]

The results of the last Australian election would indicate that the major changes in the won seats/ lost seats columns weren't between the traditional major parties - rather the losses from the the two major parties to the independents and minor parties.

That would suggest that people who voted for those candidates knew exactly who they were voting for in those electorates.

 

[Square Peg]

The results of the last Australian election would indicate that the major changes in the won seats/ lost seats columns weren't between the traditional major parties - rather the losses from the the two major parties to the independents and minor parties.

That would suggest that people who voted for those candidates knew exactly who they were voting for in those electorates.

This is true. It's also a reflection of our preferential voting system
In a first past the post system Fydenberg, Wilson, Sharma, Hammond, Zimmermann etc all would have still been elected. Well done to the Teals for using the system to their advantage, the Libs can have no complaints, but the result if anything reinforces that centrist politics predominates in Australia. All the doctor spouse demographics in those seats couldn't bring themselves to vote Labor but they happily voted Teal

 

[myfreodom]

Sorry mate. Biden's entire shtick in his decades in office has been that he supports whatever the mainstream of the Democrats supports. If you think he somehow represents "Republican values" I don't know what to tell you.

So like I keep asking, give me a list of these values (or even just the most important ones) so we are speaking the same language and then we can have a proper debate about it. There is no question Biden is and always been a Democrat. My point was that he is closer to Republican values than most of their current leaders. The key to my point is that the current Republican leaders are so far away from the traditional values that a Democrat is actually closer to them

 

[wahooo]

So the republicans gain seats but were rejected?

And as you can see... you did say all.

What were the differences between ALP and LNP on climate change in the last election?

They may have used the term 'all' but it wasn't used in the sense you are suggesting. I think that's a pretty clear comprehension error on your part.

 

[Kram]

I must be the only one that doesn't really care about US politics.

 

[Episode IV]

I must be the only one that doesn't really care about US politics.

You're not.
There is that level of a interest based upon the flow on effects of what is happening in the USA to Australia, but arguably there are plenty of other places which influence us as much, if not more.
But that word "care" is where I get off the boat. I don't. Many do, though, and I often wonder why. A few theories is all I'd have in answer to that question.

Of course, I never really got the fascination with soap operas and reality TV, either.

 

[Taylor]

It's good mental distraction for home mums between writing chapters.

 

[Square Peg]

When America sneezes, the world catches a cold.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

So like I keep asking, give me a list of these values (or even just the most important ones) so we are speaking the same language and then we can have a proper debate about it. There is no question Biden is and always been a Democrat. My point was that he is closer to Republican values than most of their current leaders. The key to my point is that the current Republican leaders are so far away from the traditional values that a Democrat is actually closer to them

You're the one who made the absurd claim that Biden is closer to traditional Republican beliefs than the current Republican party. I think it's on you to defend that.

Russel's teapot and all that.

 

[E Shed]

I started to care when a narcissist sociopath in Trump started trying to turn the US into an authoritarian dictatorship.
I couldn’t care less about the day to day minutiae of US politics I just hate it when leaders start trying to do away with accountability & transparency. I hated Morrison for the same reason but Trump is or would like to be up their with Putin, Kim Jong etc.
that’s not going to end well for anyone.

 

[stax on the mull]

I started to care when a narcissist sociopath in Trump started trying to turn the US into an authoritarian dictatorship.
I couldn’t care less about the day to day minutiae of US politics I just hate it when leaders start trying to do away with accountability & transparency. I hated Morrison for the same reason but Trump is or would like to be up their with Putin, Kim Jong etc.
that’s not going to end well for anyone.

Kind of thought you might be taking the Trump comparisons with other tyrants too far then I saw this website. Trump's books for kids written by Trump's legal wiz Kash Patel - the dude who reckons Trump can declassify documents just by waving his hand and saying that they're declassified.

My Signed Copy

My Signed Copy

plotagainsttheking.com

"Kash Patel tells the fantastical story of how two inquisitive minds, Dinesh and Debbie, search for the truth and uncover evidence of a terrible scheme to elect Sleepy Joe instead of King Donald on Choosing Day. Included in the book is a special message from Dinesh D'Souza."



“This book should be in every school in the country.”
- Donald J. Trump

 

[Kram]

I started to care when a narcissist sociopath in Trump started trying to turn the US into an authoritarian dictatorship.
I couldn’t care less about the day to day minutiae of US politics I just hate it when leaders start trying to do away with accountability & transparency. I hated Morrison for the same reason but Trump is or would like to be up their with Putin, Kim Jong etc.
that’s not going to end well for anyone.

So he was just like all the other US presidents

 

[poshman]

They may have used the term 'all' but it wasn't used in the sense you are suggesting. I think that's a pretty clear comprehension error on your part.

Which I attempted to clarify in my first reply. I was then told that they never said All. In a manner that suggested my question was silly for asking.

They could have said - ah didn't mean all. And it would have been done.

That isn't the main point. The main point is how exactly people are coming to the conclusion that conservative policies are being rejected? I am asking for numbers from the midterms that illustrate the claim.

 

[poshman]

I started to care when a narcissist sociopath in Trump started trying to turn the US into an authoritarian dictatorship.
I couldn’t care less about the day to day minutiae of US politics I just hate it when leaders start trying to do away with accountability & transparency. I hated Morrison for the same reason but Trump is or would like to be up their with Putin, Kim Jong etc.
that’s not going to end well for anyone.

How exactly is/was he like them? Enough with the media driven rubbish and give exact examples.

Sociopath? Has a specific meaning. How does he fit the meaning in your opinion?

They are mostly narcissists and the ones who aren't will be painted as such. Obama was and is a massive narcissist.

What were the exact things he did to do away with transparency? Do you think that the Dems under Biden are transparent?

 

[BanjoRules]

How exactly is/was he like them? Enough with the media driven rubbish and give exact examples.

Sociopath? Has a specific meaning. How does he fit the meaning in your opinion?

They are mostly narcissists and the ones who aren't will be painted as such. Obama was and is a massive narcissist.

What were the exact things he did to do away with transparency? Do you think that the Dems under Biden are transparent?

Here is Jorden Peterson giving his opinion as a clinical psychologist on Trump.

He talks about the good and the bad minus the usual emotional response that some people can't get past.

He makes the point that it is very easy to demonize people you dont approve of and that Trump is the most demonized Western political leader in his lifetime, including Nixon.

He also discusses the reasons why Trump is not a psychopath and how people throw these terms around casually.

Anyway interesting interview from someone more qualified than all of us.