Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Jacinta Price has very little support amongst the majority of Aboriginal communities.

Sorry but way more indigenous Australians were against the Voice than the media makes out. Im also talking about Noongar elders Ive worked with. Im no supporter of right wing media but JP gained support in Alice Spring due to how unpopular the state government is there. The racist shit directed at her online was staggering as she was representing 'some' real views from Aboriginal people. Many indigenous people now have massive issues with the white university types and in particular the ABC labelling parts of their culture right wing. Im not aligning with either side of politics but stating my lived experiences. Most of the indigenous educators I know were against the Voice in the end as they felt real views weren't being heard.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

She does have a lot of support from the sky news organisation and often showcased on sky news because she is right wing and opposed to the Yes vote. Which helps push Sky News and the Liberal and National Party's agenda.

In this case Ive heard very different views to the ones I suspected would be the case to the point of I was initially stunned when I heard them. Most indigenous educators I've encountered now have issues with both sides of politics and a major issue with how only those aligned with the left get heard. They have particular issuue with men like John Hewson who talk down to cultural views. A Noongar word for men with his views is Koony which basically means the same as the character from the video clip Pretty Fly for a White Guy.

Im just saying my personal experience so feel free to disagree but Jacinta Price would have more support than most think also due to how she wants waste in Aboriginal organisations investigated.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Yeah I was just meh about it so did an informal vote.

Mum I think voted no though.

A staggering 2.6 million registered voters didnt vote at the Referendum. The part of Australia with the highest non voter turnout was the NT which has the highest indigenous cohort. My friends in Alice say it made the papers there less than 50% of the registered indigenous voters voted in the Referendum.

 

[King Huskii]

Sorry but way more indigenous Australians were against the Voice than the media makes out. Im also talking about Noongar elders Ive worked with. Im no supporter of right wing media but JP gained support in Alice Spring due to how unpopular the state government is there. The racist shit directed at her online was staggering as she was representing 'some' real views from Aboriginal people. Many indigenous people now have massive issues with the white university types and in particular the ABC labelling parts of their culture right wing. Im not aligning with either side of politics but stating my lived experiences. Most of the indigenous educators I know were against the Voice in the end as they felt real views weren't being heard.

My experience with indigenous educators was the exact opposite

 

[South of the Yarra]

Yeah that's utter rubbish. Sorry but way more indigenous Australians were against the Voice than the media makes out. Im also talking about Noongar elders Ive worked with. Im no supporter of right wing media but JP gained support in Alice Spring due to how unpopular the state government is there. The racist shit directed at her online was staggering as she was representing 'some' real views from Aboriginal people. Many indigenous people now have massive issues with the white university types and in particular the ABC labelling parts of their culture right wing. Im not aligning with either side of politics but stating my lived experiences. Most of the indigenous educators I know were against the Voice in the end as they felt real views weren't being heard.

No what you are suggesting is utter rubbish. I would suggest my 'lived experience' as you call it, gives me a pretty good understanding of what is happening in Aboriginal communities. Jacinta Price is particularly disliked by many Aboriginal people. If you truly understand Aboriginal culture in the Northern and Western communities, which with no disrespect, you cannot, then you would know why. Some Aboriginal people have always had issues with white university types just as much as they have issues with non-Aboriginal people speaking on their behalf. Yes, some Aboriginal people were against the voice but to say way more than the media makes out is just plain wrong.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

My experience with indigenous educators was the exact opposite

Yep many different views exist but I'm talking about elders in the Kwinanna area and also recently in my TAFE work with elders in the freo area recently. There are many different views that don't get heard and that's my point. In emote communities there is also something called Indigenous Lore which is important in many traditional cultural groups. In indigenous Lore it is disrespectful for another tribe or elders to instruct another tribe on culture. Like I said Ive heard some views that surprised me.

The issue the Kwinana Noongar elders had was that they were initially pro the Voice but wanted specific details and the ALP didnt provide any. Like I said feel free to disagree as we agree on most things.

 

[King Huskii]

Yep many different views exist but I'm talking about elders in the Kwinanna area and also recently in my TAFE work with elders in the freo area recently. There are many different views that don't get heard and that's my point. In emote communities there is also something called Indigenous Lore which is important in many traditional cultural groups. In indigenous Lore it is disrespectful for another tribe or elders to instruct another tribe on culture. Like I said Ive heard some views that surprised me.

The issue the Kwinana Noongar elders had was that they were initially pro the Voice but wanted specific details and the ALP didnt provide any. Like I said feel free to disagree as we agree on most things.

Yeah mate all good

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

No what you are suggesting is utter rubbish. I would suggest my 'lived experience' as you call it, gives me a pretty good understanding of what is happening in Aboriginal communities. Jacinta Price is particularly disliked by many Aboriginal people. If you truly understand Aboriginal culture in the Northern and Western communities, which with no disrespect, you cannot, then you would know why. Some Aboriginal people have always had issues with white university types just as much as they have issues with non-Aboriginal people speaking on their behalf. Yes, some Aboriginal people were against the voice but to say way more than the media makes out is just plain wrong.

Yeap. I'll agree to disagree as Ive heard this directly from people working regularly with the indigenous communities. Yes plenty of indigenous people don't like JP but they also don't like ALP indigenous politicians. Again. Ive had my views changed by contact with Noongar elders in recent times.Like I keep saying I'm fine with anyone disagreeing but Im simply saying what my experiences are.

If you check voting numbers in those communities it backs up what I'm saying.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Yeap. I'll agree to disagree as Ive heard this directly from people working regularly with the indigenous communities. Yes plenty of indigenous people don't like JP but they also don't like ALP indigenous politicians. Again. Ive had my views changed by contact with Noongar elders in recent times.Like I keep saying I'm fine with anyone disagreeing but Im simply saying what my experiences are.

If you check voting numbers in those communities it backs up what I'm saying.

I do appreciate your opinion and am not down grading your experience, but I was born an Aboriginal in one of these communities, I was stolen from one of these communities and return to these communities for 6 months a year helping other elders to engage and empower. I probably have contact with tens of thousands of Aboriginals each year and meet regularly with representatives of hundreds of thousands of Aboriginals. I have a pretty good understanding of the general feel.

 

[Episode IV]

Somewhat paradoxical to realise that the Aboriginals in Australia are actually a very conservative people.
Gives rise to all sorts of interesting perspectives in debate.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

A staggering 2.6 million registered voters didnt vote at the Referendum. The part of Australia with the highest non voter turnout was the NT which has the highest indigenous cohort. My friends in Alice say it made the papers there less than 50% of the registered indigenous voters voted in the Referendum.

There were very low turnouts in both the South Australian and Victorian voice elections.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Somewhat paradoxical to realise that the Aboriginals in Australia are actually a very conservative people.
Gives rise to all sorts of interesting perspectives in debate.

I’ve read that around 70% identify as Christian.

 

[King Huskii]

I do appreciate your opinion and am not down grading your experience, but I was born an Aboriginal in one of these communities, I was stolen from one of these communities and return to these communities for 6 months a year helping other elders to engage and empower. I probably have contact with tens of thousands of Aboriginals each year and meet regularly with representatives of hundreds of thousands of Aboriginals. I have a pretty good understanding of the general feel.

As my family on my father's side.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I do appreciate your opinion and am not down grading your experience, but I was born an Aboriginal in one of these communities, I was stolen from one of these communities and return to these communities for 6 months a year helping other elders to engage and empower. I probably have contact with tens of thousands of Aboriginals each year and meet regularly with representatives of hundreds of thousands of Aboriginals. I have a pretty good understanding of the general feel.

Thanks for sharing your views. Im not downgrading your opinion to be clear but what Im saying is simply there is a range of opinions on the issue I've come across and they surprised me. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying overall JP has the support of indigenous people but more pointing out neither do the ALP indigenous politicians and Ive come across many who felt let down by how the Voice Referendum happened and by the silencing of indigenous community leaders who had questions regarding the referendum. Those are the ones who Ive heard have different views than I expected. Ive also had a lot of contact with Stolen Generation survivors via work Ive done in recent times for what its worth and in recent times some of those views have changed. Unfortunately what I've heard is that they feel attacked by those who attacked them historically but also the university class that refers to part of their traditional culture as right wing with many having issues with the Greens and most have issues with the ABC university class.

 

[King Huskii]

Thanks for sharing your views. Im not downgrading your opinion to be clear but what Im saying is simply there is a range of opinions on the issue I've come across and they surprised me. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying overall JP has the support of indigenous people but more pointing out neither do the ALP indigenous politicians and Ive come across many who felt let down by how the Voice Referendum happened and by the silencing of indigenous community leaders who had questions regarding the referendum. Those are the ones who Ive heard have different views than I expected. Ive also had a lot of contact with Stolen Generation survivors via work Ive done in recent times for what its worth and in recent times some of those views have changed. Unfortunately what I've heard is that they feel attacked by those who attacked them historically but also the university class that refers to part of their traditional culture as right wing with many having issues with the Greens and most have issues with the ABC university class.

That's called people playing politics from both sides.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

That's called people playing politics from both sides.

I guess what Im saying is the people I'm quoting feel attacked by both sides in recent times. While we both agree about the role of right wing media in racism what's new is how many cultural minorities now also feel attacked by what's become known as Woke culture or the extremes of the left.

 

[King Huskii]

I guess what Im saying is the people I'm quoting feel attacked by both sides in recent times. While we both agree about the role of right wing media in racism what's new is how many cultural minorities now also feel attacked by what's become known as Woke culture or the extremes of the left.

Yes, but the extreams of the left, just like the extreams of the right are from groups of people and social media groups plus a few media outlets not from our politicians. Both major parties are fairly central.


Back in the day prior to the internet and blow up of social media we never has virtue signalling at the touch of a button.

People need to stop being so fixated on it and actually discuss proper issues without the rubbish that cloggs up our society airways.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Yes, but the extreams of the left, just like the extreams of the right are from groups of people and social media groups plus a few media outlets not from our politicians. Both major parties are fairly central.


Back in the day prior to the internet and blow up of social media we never has virtue signalling at the touch of a button.

People need to stop being so fixated on it and actually discuss proper issues without the rubbish that cloggs up our society airways.

Yeah I totally agree. What I'm saying though is that in recent times the nature of what racism is has changed.

 

[King Huskii]

Yeah I totally agree. What I'm saying though is that in recent times the nature of what racism is has changed.

Racism hasn't changed. What some people perceive racism to be has changed.

 

[Kram]

Donald Trump
$1.57

Kamala Harris
$5.00

Joe Biden
$7.50

 

[stax on the mull]

Something from the archives. Just some local Melbourne Nazi campaigners. Not that many to make a fuss about, although some people here were really triggered by the sight of the guy from the Communist Party of Australia carrying his flag alongside the Yes rally voters.

 

[King Huskii]

Something from the archives. Just some local Melbourne Nazi campaigners. Not that many to make a fuss about, although some people here were really triggered by the sight by the guy from the Communist Party of Australia carrying his flag alongside the Yes rally voters.

View attachment 2038752

They make the woke brigade look like rocket scientists

 

[Kram]

Something from the archives. Just some local Melbourne Nazi campaigners. Not that many to make a fuss about, although some people here were really triggered by the sight by the guy from the Communist Party of Australia carrying his flag alongside the Yes rally voters.

View attachment 2038752

 

[stax on the mull]

They make the woke brigade look like rocket scientists

They bring their dumbbells down to Vic Parliament house to exercise their manliness to the general public.

 

[Episode IV]

I’ve read that around 70% identify as Christian.

That's more an adaptation (often coerced, originally) in the face of historical oppression.

Conservatism at its core is a cultural and social philosophy which seeks to preserve traditional values and ideals, of which religion is only one factor.
The nature of conservatism varies from culture to culture, nation to nation, and takes many different forms depending on the hierarchy of values each society attributes to one aspect or another.

Nations such as China, Japan, and many Middle Eastern nations (Iran being a good example) are deeply conservative in nature. The Middle East includes both Israel and Palestine. Yet they are all different, and that difference is often dependent upon the hierarchy of values - religion, for example, plays a major role in some, and a lesser one in others. Often, the association of religion with conservatism boils down to the extent to which religion can be separated from culture... whether it forms an integral part of that culture, or remains only a minor aspect.
With liberalism, paradoxical thinking begins to be seen as almost a necessary evil, when one value cannot be aligned with another, resulting in hypocrisy which often goes unnoticed or unremarked.

It's a really long and involved topic, and it's difficult to get into within the confines of this forum. Where I was going in this instance, though, in saying that the Aboriginals in Australia are a conservative people by nature, was that.. well... they are.
Aboriginals in Australia are deeply committed to the preservation of their own culture and values. Religious adherence of one stripe or another is only a part of that, and the precedence religion takes among the Aboriginals on the hierarchy of traditional values doesn't seem to be as high as that of, for example, Islam in the Middle East. To my mind and in my experience, religion forms only a (relatively) minor part of Aboriginal culture. I don't really think, to be quite blunt, that the oft-touted rhetoric of 70,000 years of unchanged cultural (until colonization) identity, and the desire to preserve and retain as much of that as possible, post colonization, in the modern world can be seen as anything but conservatism.

In a more general sense, minorities in a multi-cultural society are almost driven to conservative opinion, according to their own cultural or religious values, due to social separation (I'm not using that term in the cov sense, but in the traditional sense). That's a sort of side-topic, though. Like I said, it's complicated.

To keep this as short as possible, I think that, with specific reference to Australia as a multi-cultural society dominated historically by one culture and which is now in a state of flux, Liberal values serve, paradoxically, as a parasol for minority conservativism.

I have a feeling I may need to explain that further, but I'm not sure of the level of interest in the face of various agendas... which is, in essence, at the heart of the issue.