Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Bulldogs

[Ambrose Burnside]

If Witherden didn't play we would have won by 101 points.

 

[Truckosaurus]

Witherden was seen at the grassy knoll moments before John F Kennedy was shot.


Fortunately we know he can't hit a target from that far away.

 

[ioppolo]

Who would've thought that Witherden would end up our no.1 whipping boy post Brander?

 

[Dylan82]

Regarding Witherden - I feel that he is yet another that is currently limited by being played out of position.

His best for Brisbane was when roaming much higher up the ground with stints on ball. We should be playing him either in the midfield or as a false forward that comes up to the stoppage much in the manner that the Bulldogs make use of Dunkley.

His kicking is very good - when in space and on the run - if he has to stop and hesitate that is when things fall apart because he tightens up and makes errors. The static kick-mark offensive approach is a disaster for him.

One of the few natural accumulators in the squad, and arguably the only one that is under the age of 25.


Rather than trying to turn him into Sheppardbot 2.0, the club should be focusing on further developing his attacking traits.

 

[Chump Change]

I think my wife is cheating on me. Bet it is with Witherden.

 

[tigger_ferret]

Meanwhile 18yo Gibcus is lining up on Buddy Franklin.

Bazzo should be able to handle a third tall role.

Pretty sure Buddy kicked 5 and had his best game of the year

 

[Chump Change]

Pretty sure Buddy kicked 5 and had his best game of the year

Gibcus will be a star though.

I don't see any downside to Bazzo playing on the third tall.

 

[Mattman93]

Regarding Witherden - I feel that he is yet another that is currently limited by being played out of position.

His best for Brisbane was when roaming much higher up the ground with stints on ball. We should be playing him either in the midfield or as a false forward that comes up to the stoppage much in the manner that the Bulldogs make use of Dunkley.

His kicking is very good - when in space and on the run - if he has to stop and hesitate that is when things fall apart because he tightens up and makes errors. The static kick-mark offensive approach is a disaster for him.

One of the few natural accumulators in the squad, and arguably the only one that is under the age of 25.


Rather than trying to turn him into Sheppardbot 2.0, the club should be focusing on further developing his attacking traits.

On a similar note, I wonder how you feel about the way we're developing Hough as a defender. I think I recall you saying that some folks at Brisbane were keen on him, and saw him as a potential medium forward. I know he (at least in part) played as a mid-HF for Peel as well.

I'm sort of agnostic on where his best position is, but I can't help but feel as though we've taken his on-paper athletic profile and basically seen Sheppard 2.0, and are now shoehorning him as such.

 

[joeyavalanche]

Pretty sure Buddy kicked 5 and had his best game of the year

Yeah sure, but how much of a learning curve and experience you think that gives Gibcus in playing on someone like Buddy for his future?

He’d have learned 10x the amount he would have by playing VFL.

Our ‘reliable’ full backs are getting torched anyway.

I though Harry Edwards had his best game for the club the other night and started to show some confidence. If we want to make inroads into getting better it should start with these young guys now.

We’re getting flogged regardless

 

[Mudman85]

Guys like Witherden and Langdon were pumped up when they arrived at the club but really were just another bunch of blokes who weren’t in the best 22 at either club. Not surprised both of them have been a flop
Same with Sam Petrevski seton
Also why isn’t Naish playing? Was he trying too hard?

 

[southcoast]

Guys like Witherden and Langdon were pumped up when they arrived at the club but really were just another bunch of blokes who weren’t in the best 22 at either club. Not surprised both of them have been a flop
Same with Sam Petrevski seton
Also why isn’t Naish playing? Was he trying too hard?

Freo went through a period when it appeared as if they were happy to get anyone and everyone returning to WA (Matera, Hogan, Lobb, Bennell et al) for a period a while back. Almost appeared as if they wanted to ‘establish themselves as a player’ and didn’t do quality control.

Your list of names gives me the same vibes.

Just watched the replay and another positive

We’re fckn good at jogging.

 

[BeornJ]

While you did your rewatch did you see any attempt from Witho to open the game up and set up play like we recruited him for or just note the safe 10m effective disposals or long kick down the line?

If his disposal efficiency was like you have posted and he was a lock down defender like Tom Cole then that’s great, he’s not there to create play, he’s there to defend.

But Witho provides us none of either.

JJ had a shocker but at least he was constantly on the move, trying to take the game on and be creative. And we got him off the scrap heap

I was off work sick today. Bad asthma. Trying to find something to do so I watched Witho's 'highlights' on the afl website. Curious about his impact.

1. Intercept mark. Immediate handball to Jones
2. Safe Switch kick 20-30m.
3. Safe side/back handball
4. 15m safe kick to def goal square
5. 20m safe kick along boundary
6. 30m safe kick along boundary
7. Effective tackle causing turnover
8. Effective tackle causing stoppage
9. 50m aggressive kick to a one on one. Slightly favours eagles player
10. 10m run and carry then 20 m safe kick boundary
11. 30m kick, picked out eagles player between opp.
12. Kick in safe 20m boundary kick
13. Strong effective tackle against charging opp player on the wing, caused turnover, goal results
14. Chopping arms free against. Opp shot at goal- behind.
15. 30m safe switch kick
16. Took on man on mark, risky 50m kick, perfectly weighted to eagles player on the wing, mark to eagles
17. One on one strong intercept mark
18 tries quick kick into corridor. shank kick, thankfully goes to free eagles player
19 handball to clear congestion in d50
20 bullet kick i50 - goal assist
21 one on one on goal line, spoiled over the line
22. Kick in. Risky kick on 45 degree angle
23 intercept mark on the wing. 50m kick i50 to a pack
24 kick in 20m safe kick along boundary
25 30m kick into corridor, risky, marked by eagles player
26 spoil
27 quick handball to player in space. i50 results.

Oh and also at one point there was a missed tackle on Keath that allows him to kick a goal. Strangely this doesn't show up on his 'highlights'

 

[BeornJ]

Also please change thread title to 'BeornJ takes on all comers regarding Witho'

 

[Mudman85]

Freo went through a period when it appeared as if they were happy to get anyone and everyone returning to WA (Matera, Hogan, Lobb, Bennell et al) for a period a while back. Almost appeared as if they wanted to ‘establish themselves as a player’ and didn’t do quality control.

Your list of names gives me the same vibes.

Just watched the replay and another positive

We’re fckn good at jogging.

Totally agree - I wasn’t having a crack. I just remember The West Australian pumping up them securing Zac Langdon and I had to look him up. His stats were nothing to get excited about.

 

[joeyavalanche]

I was off work sick today. Bad asthma. Trying to find something to do so I watched Witho's 'highlights' on the afl website. Curious about his impact.

1. Intercept mark. Immediate handball to Jones
2. Safe Switch kick 20-30m.
3. Safe side/back handball
4. 15m safe kick to def goal square
5. 20m safe kick along boundary
6. 30m safe kick along boundary
7. Effective tackle causing turnover
8. Effective tackle causing stoppage
9. 50m aggressive kick to a one on one. Slightly favours eagles player
10. 10m run and carry then 20 m safe kick boundary
11. 30m kick, picked out eagles player between opp.
12. Kick in safe 20m boundary kick
13. Strong effective tackle against charging opp player on the wing, caused turnover, goal results
14. Chopping arms free against. Opp shot at goal- behind.
15. 30m safe switch kick
16. Took on man on mark, risky 50m kick, perfectly weighted to eagles player on the wing, mark to eagles
17. One on one strong intercept mark
18 tries quick kick into corridor. shank kick, thankfully goes to free eagles player
19 handball to clear congestion in d50
20 bullet kick i50 - goal assist
21 one on one on goal line, spoiled over the line
22. Kick in. Risky kick on 45 degree angle
23 intercept mark on the wing. 50m kick i50 to a pack
24 kick in 20m safe kick along boundary
25 30m kick into corridor, risky, marked by eagles player
26 spoil
27 quick handball to player in space. i50 results.

Oh and also at one point there was a missed tackle on Keath that allows him to kick a goal. Strangely this doesn't show up on his 'highlights'

Thanks. I watched the game, I know all of this. These are just receipts. I just don’t understand what point you’re making if any.

A lot of time and handling here for not much impact or outcome… a bit like Witho’s game tbh

 

[Scotland]

JJ doesn't belong in the back 6 with the team we have available, but if he's up forward he'll catch a cold and he doesn't have enough credits to play in the middle. Love the fact that he takes the game on and tries to create with pace and kicking. Reminds me of Mark Nicoski

Mark Nicoski

Age

41

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

5.5

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.9

4star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

when we stank in 2008/09. And he was similarly roasted for turning the ball over as though standing still and handballing to teammates under pressure was a better option.

Edwards seems to be stepping up as the only defender in the back 6, including spoiling Barrass' MOTY attempt. Everyone else (other than JJ who is a ring in) is more interested in getting the ball and not taking risks.

 

[BeornJ]

Thanks. I watched the game, I know all of this. These are just receipts. I just don’t understand what point you’re making if any.

A lot of time and handling here for not much impact or outcome… a bit like Witho’s game tbh

My asthma is fine, thanks.

You asked a question, I happen to enjoy looking through player's highlights and analysing their impact, and there are some questions on Witho's impact so I provided some data/analysis. People who don't like him as a player will find proof he does too many dinky 20m kicks, others might be pleasantly surprised by his relative tackle/spoil efficiency, some might think yvan eht nioj.

No real hidden agenda here.

 

[Scotland]

Guys like Witherden and Langdon were pumped up when they arrived at the club but really were just another bunch of blokes who weren’t in the best 22 at either club. Not surprised both of them have been a flop
Same with Sam Petrevski seton
Also why isn’t Naish playing? Was he trying too hard?

Langdon just isn't very good. Ditto SPS.

Witherden is the sort of player you don't need many of and Brisbane have Rich. Rich is an AA calibre player but if you had 3 Richs in your back 6 you'd leak goals.

 

[Goroyals22]

Guys like Witherden and Langdon were pumped up when they arrived at the club but really were just another bunch of blokes who weren’t in the best 22 at either club. Not surprised both of them have been a flop
Same with Sam Petrevski seton
Also why isn’t Naish playing? Was he trying too hard?

Thats an easy answer.. he was playing the wing role to well so the had to throw Gaff back there dodgey foot and all and Nelson has to be picked to play to improve the form of the opposition midfielders so the other wing is taken….. that will teach Naish for showing Gaff up.

 

[joeyavalanche]

My asthma is fine, thanks.

You asked a question, I happen to enjoy looking through player's highlights and analysing their impact, and there are some questions on Witho's impact so I provided some data/analysis. People who don't like him as a player will find proof he does too many dinky 20m kicks, others might be pleasantly surprised by his relative tackle/spoil efficiency, some might think yvan eht nioj.

No real hidden agenda here.

Wasn’t questioning a hidden a agenda, just if you had any agenda at all.

You didn’t even give an opinion on your findings, you just wrote out foot notes

 

[wooshwhisperer]

Yeah sure, but how much of a learning curve and experience you think that gives Gibcus in playing on someone like Buddy for his future?

He’d have learned 10x the amount he would have by playing VFL.

Our ‘reliable’ full backs are getting torched anyway.

I though Harry Edwards had his best game for the club the other night and started to show some confidence. If we want to make inroads into getting better it should start with these young guys now.

We’re getting flogged regardless

The problem with Harry is TURBO LAG... pretty sure over 15 metres I'd beat him by 5... if my naturally aspirated 65yo calves stayed in 1 piece.

 

[joeyavalanche]

The problem with Harry is TURBO LAG... pretty sure over 15 metres I'd beat him by 5... if my naturally aspirated 65yo calves stayed in 1 piece.

Oh the guy is absolutely as slow as a wet week

 

[Dylan82]

On a similar note, I wonder how you feel about the way we're developing Hough as a defender. I think I recall you saying that some folks at Brisbane were keen on him, and saw him as a potential medium forward. I know he (at least in part) played as a mid-HF for Peel as well.

I'm sort of agnostic on where his best position is, but I can't help but feel as though we've taken his on-paper athletic profile and basically seen Sheppard 2.0, and are now shoehorning him as such.

I'm fine with it for the moment as it gets him matches in the senior team and he currently lacks the build to be thrown into the midfield, and being stranded in our forward line for 5 or so touches would probably do his development more harm than good right now.

Longer term I want him anywhere but in defence. He simply has too much potential to be wasted down back.

His disposal and decision-making is already starting to transfer to the higher grade with just 4 full matches - his last two years has shown that he adapts and learns quickly and more exposure will only help that. What is also encouraging is that considering that he is built like a twig at the moment, he shows no hesitation to put his body into a contest - which means he has an appetite for it, something that you can't teach and will be beneficial when he gets some size and can transition more towards an onball role.

Because that is where I see his development going. He already has the tank, poise with disposal, lateral step and clean hands to do it well - just needs to add 15kg of muscle so he can hold his own against the bulls.


Needless to say I feel that the club should be trying to bulk him up as quickly as possible.

 

[Mattman93]

I'm fine with it for the moment as it gets him matches in the senior team and he currently lacks the build to be thrown into the midfield, and being stranded in our forward line for 5 or so touches would probably do his development more harm than good right now.

Longer term I want him anywhere but in defence. He simply has too much potential to be wasted down back.

His disposal and decision-making is already starting to transfer to the higher grade with just 4 full matches - his last two years has shown that he adapts and learns quickly and more exposure will only help that. What is also encouraging is that considering that he is built like a twig at the moment, he shows no hesitation to put his body into a contest - which means he has an appetite for it, something that you can't teach and will be beneficial when he gets some size and can transition more towards an onball role.

Because that is where I see his development going. He already has the tank, poise with disposal, lateral step and clean hands to do it well - just needs to add 15kg of muscle so he can hold his own against the bulls.


Needless to say I feel that the club should be trying to bulk him up as quickly as possible.

I agree overall, it's the bolded parts that worry me (particularly the former). When has any WC draftee begun in defence and not remained there permanently (maybe Yeo)?

 

[Agent93]

(maybe Yeo)?

Not a WCE draftee. But I get your point. Most players in our club move further towards the defensive goal-line the longer their careers go. Nicoski is the only one I can remember switching forwards, and most of our gun midfielders started life in the forward line.