Pressure on number 1 picks

[jules101]

Do you think there is more pressure from the media/supporters on the player that gets picked 1st in the national draft compared to other high picks? I would say there is. Especailly when there is heaps of media attention such as last year with Murphy and this year on Gibbs (he isnt 1 (yet) but there has been plenty of attention on him). Goddard is another one where there has been plenty of pressure on him.
Secondly, do you think the club with the number 1 pick has more pressure on them too then the club with the second pick? I think this is true too. I think clubs are nearly pressured into taking the player the media rates as the best.. Say Carlton dont take Gibbs and he turns into the next judd, they will never live it down. Therefore, they take the "safe bet".
Thoughts on my ramblings?

 

[deck]

Yes I agree that the number 1 pick gets all the pressure of the top draft picks. The same thing applies to the club with the 1st pick. You just have to look at the whole look Judd Vs Hodge debate. In the end Stkilda picked Ball ahead of Judd yet that always gets overlooked. Although a recriuter would take the first pick everytime the fact is it is a lot easier pressure wise to have pick 2.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Agree with everything you said especially the last thing.

Not taking gibbs could well = lifelong regret, humiliation, open war at princess park

 

[frankc]

You can only take who you think is the best player for your side. How is anyone to know what will transpire in the future.

People keep referring to the next Judd. Whats more important is how a player fits into the team. If Judd shifted club and was asked to play a different role would he stand out as much?

If I was Judd, I'd stay at WCE - their style of play suits him to the ground. Also people forget the Judd went to draft day with two shoulder reconstructions - WCE showed faith in him and he has repaid them.

As I have always said, I'm more than happy with the the HFC choice in taking Hodge. He is an outstanding player. However Judd is better at present, however only after a few more years will we really know who is the better player.

 

[Hollow Knight]

As I have always said, I'm more than happy with the the HFC choice in taking Hodge. He is an outstanding player. However Judd is better at present, however only after a few more years will we really know who is the better player.

*SPOILER WARNING*





It will still be Judd.




*END SPOILER*

 

[jules101]

*SPOILER WARNING*





It will still be Judd.




*END SPOILER*

thanks for the warning

I agree though Judd will be the better player, he will only get better. Hodge will be a very good player, but I think Judd will be better.

I used next Judd because he is regarded as the biggest star in our game. i agree that Judd may look better in the midfield he is in but he would still be a champion for anyone.

 

[Chewy]

The pressure on the number one picks (and the recruiting managers that selected them) is overstated by the casual fan, the footy media and a lot of the people on here. You'll find that most players chosen at number one have always had high expectations placed on them and are more equipped in living up to this than you might think.

In reality, every player taken in the first round of the draft has massive expectations placed on them, not only by the the club's supporters, but also from people in and around the club. Laid back though he might be, Collingwood's number 2 pick, Dale Thomas would be under the same pressure to succeed as Marc Murphy. Once drafted, the actual selection number becomes irrelevant. That player instantly has pressure placed on them to become one of the "gun" players in the near future and will face even more pressure if he takes a while to develop.

Same goes for the recruiting managers. Brisbane's previous guy got the chop after a succession of 1st round picks failed to deliver - picks like Llane Spaanderman at number 17. Hawthorn's John Turnbull didn't get judged for overlooking Judd and choosing Hodge. It was some of his other early selections which were a problem.

 

[ClayBlue87]

Are Hawthorn upset they have Hodge?
NO
Are St.Kilda upset they have Ball
NO

Those top 3 are all fantastic players. West coast has a style of play thats suits Judd to a tee. And also focus on him when he is in the team.

Hodge has played excellently in a team that has performed poorly over the last few years. Will turn out to be every part important as Judd in next 3-4 years.

Ball has been plagues with injuries but is a completely different player to Judd. In and Under type who is just as important in winning the footy as Judd.

Possible 1st picks
Gibbs:will be a star in 2007
Leuenberger: n 2009 (?)

Hansen, Gumby, Selwood, Thorp...
in 3yrs time, any of these players could well be better than Gibbs...will we complain about Gibbs...NO, will we complain about Leuenberger....NO

 

[Coin_Toss]

Although a recriuter would take the first pick everytime the fact is it is a lot easier pressure wise to have pick 2.

Not necessarily true.
Pick 1 should be a lot easier pressure wise because there is always one standout amongst the batch of draftees (at the time), though pick 2 should naturally add more burden because there are a few draftees whom are worthy candidates to go at pick 2 and you're anxious to recruit the second best available in order.

 

[Longy413]

If Judd shifted club and was asked to play a different role would he stand out as much?

Um....If Chris Judd came to your club, why would you ask him to play a different role?

Hi Chris, welcome to Essendon. We'd like you to play at CHB thanks.
Yep, I can see it.

 

[jules101]

Um....If Chris Judd came to your club, why would you ask him to play a different role?

Hi Chris, welcome to Essendon. We'd like you to play at CHB thanks.
Yep, I can see it.

yeah thats what i was thinkin longy. Why move a guy who has become close to if not the best player in the league to another role.

Edit: We do need a CHB tho

 

[Chewy]

You can only take who you think is the best player for your side. How is anyone to know what will transpire in the future.

People keep referring to the next Judd. Whats more important is how a player fits into the team. If Judd shifted club and was asked to play a different role would he stand out as much?

If I was Judd, I'd stay at WCE - their style of play suits him to the ground. Also people forget the Judd went to draft day with two shoulder reconstructions - WCE showed faith in him and he has repaid them.

As I have always said, I'm more than happy with the the HFC choice in taking Hodge. He is an outstanding player. However Judd is better at present, however only after a few more years will we really know who is the better player.

It's an interesting point. Something I've had plenty cause to think about after the millions of taunts and Judd>Hodge threads. You wonder how Judd would be rated had he come to a struggling Hawthorn and played under P Schwab with our aimless game plan and threadbare list. Would he have been as effective away from the hard'n'fast Subiaco surface?

I can't see a professional reason why Judd would ever want to leave the Eagles, except to take on a different challenge if they happened to win another couple of premierships. Judd has the perfect forum to express his talents. He has skilled players to find and feed him the ball, or take the heat off him if the attention from the opposition becomes too great. He works under the best rucking tandem in the AFL and his team is one of the most disciplined when it comes to shepherding for him. It'd be a step back for him to leave.

Then again, Valentino Rossi swapped his factory Honda for a Yamaha and still won the world title.

 

[Chewy]

Um....If Chris Judd came to your club, why would you ask him to play a different role?

Hi Chris, welcome to Essendon. We'd like you to play at CHB thanks.
Yep, I can see it.

Why do you always see things your way and don't even try to understand what someone else means? There is more to Judd's role than simply "ruck rover". Maybe his role is to play on ball for the first 20 mins each quarter then come to the bench for a rest. Maybe another coach would prefer he went up forward to rest. Maybe no rest at all. No doubt Kenny Judge would've demanded he be accountable and spent half the game chasing his opponent and tackling.

Essendon doesn't have Kerr or Cousins, or anyone close to their talents. Therefore Judd would automatically be playing a different role than what he does for West Coast. Maybe Sheedy would prefer him to steer clear of the packs and skirt around them more than he does for West Coast and let the likes of Watson and Johnson feed the ball to him.

 

[blitzer]

I think there is more pressure now on number 1 picks than there has ever been before all due to the increased media hype. But this pressure isn't just limited to the no 1 pick but also falls on the top couple of picks who will be endlessly compared and rated against the no1 pick. I can see that there will be endless discussions about whether gumbleton/hansen/leunberger/gibbs etc is the better player. Clubs supporters had better hope that they don't pass on the better talent because they will have to listen/read about it for years and years to come. Ie Hawthorn/St kilda with hodge and ball even though if that's the worst mistake they ever make in drafting they could be pretty pleased with their recruiting departments if you ask me.

 

[Richo83]

You also have to consider the entire draft when making these comments. Sure, the saints passed over Judd to get Ball, but they also picked Dal Santo. Ball and Dal Santo is a very good return from picks 2 and 13, and so the people who say that St. Kilda stuffed up are mistaken. In the end, its the entire draft that counts. Moreover, people can think that draft picks may have been a mistake, and then they can turn out to be good.

Two examples:

2005, Collingwood pick Pendlebury, said to be a mid 20s pick, plays well all year, deserved of a pick 5 IMO.

2004, Richmond pick Tambling, everyone, including hawks fans called it the steal of the draft. Now, most tigers fans would agree that Franklin > Tambling.

I'm sure that if some supposed top ten pick falls to pick 13 D) or 16 people will say it's a steal, but no-one knows. Burgan was critical of Dal Santo saying that at 5'11, he'd need to become a better player. And look at him now, he's the best down-hill skiier in the league, and I mean that as a complement. All I'm saying is that we don't know until they start playing.

 

[Longy413]

Why do you always see things your way and don't even try to understand what someone else means? There is more to Judd's role than simply "ruck rover". Maybe his role is to play on ball for the first 20 mins each quarter then come to the bench for a rest. Maybe another coach would prefer he went up forward to rest. Maybe no rest at all. No doubt Kenny Judge would've demanded he be accountable and spent half the game chasing his opponent and tackling.

Essendon doesn't have Kerr or Cousins, or anyone close to their talents. Therefore Judd would automatically be playing a different role than what he does for West Coast. Maybe Sheedy would prefer him to steer clear of the packs and skirt around them more than he does for West Coast and let the likes of Watson and Johnson feed the ball to him.

You're not serious are you?

Do you think you can actually coach Chris Judd in the midfield?
It's instinct, it's not a role. He's a midfielder and he plays it his way.
You don't coach him to stay away from packs, you can't. You don't.

The only way you change Judd's role is to take him away from the midfield. Who would do that?

Fact is, Chris Judd gets the best tagger every week. Fact is, every single midfield in the AFL would provide enough support for Chris Judd to still be the best midfielder in the AFL. Even Essendon.

Judd makes Kerr and Embley and the like better players, not the other way around.

Chris Judd is a midfielder, he'd be a midfielder at any club. His role doesn't change, he plays the game the same way.
Don't try and over analyse it. He's the best midfielder in the comp, because he plays on instinct, because he reads it so well.
That doesn't change. Ever.

 

[Concerned Bystander]

The pressure that the number one picks have on them is just!! they are the best players in the country and they have the skills to play at AFL level... It would be dissapointing to see a player being picked up at number one and not being able to deal with the pressure... the only player who i have seen live up to his expectations totally is or are should i say Murphy and Delidio even though the spot light wasnt on delidio as much this year as last thats the beauty of it all.. these kids are the future superstars.. they are the new era of football, the new careys and hirdys and barassi's... these kids can play thats why there there... However its the players who we dont hear about who tend to be the suprise packets...
Ive seen one particular kid this year play heaps of footy and hes simply amazing...no ones probably heard of him but i know for a fact that he has spoken to Carlton, Port Adelaide and West Coast.. Morabito???Who?? thats probably what your thinking.. Inside info has said that Carlton want to take him as their 4th round pick or get him down on the Rookie List.. No 6 for bulleen temp.. has any one player on or against or seen this kid play.. One game i watched closely was an BT V Old Westbourne game where he ended up having 27 touches in the first 15 minutes then got rested and finished the game on close to 60 possi's. wouldnt have believed it if i didnt see it myself?
Does any one have any info on this kid that they could share? The only think i know is that he may be going back to play in the Whitefriars seniors or at BHH does any one know this kid??? did he simply pull this season out of his ass??and if he was to get picked any where what do you think the pressure would be like compared to a No 1 pick compared to No 50 or so??? what are the chances of seeing him in a AFL gersy next year do you guys think??? Tell ya what we could do with him down at Fitzroy after that bloody finals show he put on little s##t haha

 

[frankc]

Um....If Chris Judd came to your club, why would you ask him to play a different role?

Hi Chris, welcome to Essendon. We'd like you to play at CHB thanks.
Yep, I can see it.

Yes and I welcome Judd to Hawthorn, as I would Jonathan Brown, Adam Goodes etc.

 

[frankc]

You're not serious are you?

Do you think you can actually coach Chris Judd in the midfield?
It's instinct, it's not a role. He's a midfielder and he plays it his way.
You don't coach him to stay away from packs, you can't. You don't.

The only way you change Judd's role is to take him away from the midfield. Who would do that?

Fact is, Chris Judd gets the best tagger every week. Fact is, every single midfield in the AFL would provide enough support for Chris Judd to still be the best midfielder in the AFL. Even Essendon.

Judd makes Kerr and Embley and the like better players, not the other way around.

Chris Judd is a midfielder, he'd be a midfielder at any club. His role doesn't change, he plays the game the same way.
Don't try and over analyse it. He's the best midfielder in the comp, because he plays on instinct, because he reads it so well.
That doesn't change. Ever.

Great point - this is what makes him so good - he can read the play at full speed. He reads the play so quickly, his tagger doesn't have time to react.

 

[nugget_12]

in the deledio case i remember an interview he did where he explained that because there was so much talk of either him or tambling going at 1 then when we got Tambling at 4 he said it took alot of the pressure of him because either could've gone 1st.
i know alot of people are quick to jump on Tambling's back because he hasn't performed to expectations as of yet but he will turn out alright, has showed glimpses but is only 20 and a little bit raw still hopefully after a full pre-season this year he'll come back bigger and show why it was a toss up days before the '04 draft.

 

[Chewy]

You're not serious are you?
Do you think you can actually coach Chris Judd in the midfield?
It's instinct, it's not a role. He's a midfielder and he plays it his way.

So you reckon his coaches give him no instructions at all. They just stand back and let him do whatever he wants... Okay, mate... Whatever...

You don't coach him to stay away from packs, you can't. You don't.
The only way you change Judd's role is to take him away from the midfield. Who would do that?

John Worsfold has, every time he's thrown Judd forward for a five minute spell.

Fact is, Chris Judd gets the best tagger every week. Fact is, every single midfield in the AFL would provide enough support for Chris Judd to still be the best midfielder in the AFL. Even Essendon.

I don't doubt this, but his role will vary slightly from club to club according to their gameplan, players, strengths and weaknesses.

Judd makes Kerr and Embley and the like better players, not the other way around.

I agree, but those guys also make Judd look better too than if he was playing alongside Peverill and Bolton.

Chris Judd is a midfielder, he'd be a midfielder at any club. His role doesn't change, he plays the game the same way.
Don't try and over analyse it. He's the best midfielder in the comp, because he plays on instinct, because he reads it so well.
That doesn't change. Ever.

You're preoccupied with Judd's instinctive work in and around the packs. But you give him no credit at all by ignoring his football brain. He still has to think his way through situations and decide when and where to run.

Watch him next time he plays. It's not all instinct. He still plays a role within the team and this will vary slightly from week to week, according to who he's up against or how the rest of team matches up.

 

[Longy413]

So you reckon his coaches give him no instructions at all. They just stand back and let him do whatever he wants... Okay, mate... Whatever...

When he plays in the midfield, absolutely not.
You don't coach champions, Sheedy has said that of Hird, Pagan has said it of Carey, I'm sure Judd is the same.

John Worsfold has, every time he's thrown Judd forward for a five minute spell.

That's not his role though is it. Going forward for five minutes isn't what makes Chris Judd great. It's being a midfielder that makes him great and he'd do that at any club. Where he rests is irrelevant to how he plays at another club, because every single club would play him as a midfielder and he'd play it his way.

I agree, but those guys also make Judd look better too than if he was playing alongside Peverill and Bolton.

Why?
Judd gets his own ball and they don't take tags away from him.

If we had Judd I'm tipping he may just force Pev out of the side. He wouldn't be playing along side Pev and Bolts, it would be Jason Johnson, Watson, Stanton, Hird. The side that was 4th in 1st possessions, I somehow doubt Judd would get any less of the ball.

You're preoccupied with Judd's instinctive work in and around the packs. But you give him no credit at all by ignoring his football brain. He still has to think his way through situations and decide when and where to run.

Can you tell me exactly what you thought I mean when I said "he reads it so well." Just a tip, I wasn't talking about the footy record.

Watch him next time he plays. It's not all instinct. He still plays a role within the team and this will vary slightly from week to week, according to who he's up against or how the rest of team matches up.

I reckon I watched nearly every single game he played this year. Seemed to play in the midfield, as a midfielder a lot. Slight variances in game time, in when or where he rests wouldn't make him any lesser player at any other club. We are talking about a player that makes the player here, not one that needs others to make it for him.

Funnily enough, you had a crack at me for not considering the view of the poster who introduced this subject. I did, I just didn't agree with it. That poster then considered my opinion and seemed to agree. Continue on your point of view if you wish, I'll consider it, but I won't change my opinion.

 

[Chewy]

Continue on your point of view if you wish, I'll consider it, but I won't change my opinion.

We could probably argue about this until the cows come home. You say he is a midfielder, that's his role, don't over analyse it, you don't burden a genius with any instructions, you just let him play.

I say rubbish. The game is tactical. There is more going on out there than you acknowledge. Judd plays to certain team disciplines and these may change week to week, certainly he plays a freer role than Stenglein, but he still plays to a certain structure. Maybe Worsfold will recognise a certain weakness in how Carlton set up at the kick-outs, or throw ins and he may wish to exploit it. He may decide to change the role of his best player and shuffle his side around slightly. Perhaps if Judd was at a club that had less options in the midfield, then his role would stay the same each week.

 

[The Magenius]

*SPOILER WARNING*





It will still be Judd.




*END SPOILER*

LOL, it didn;t take long for the hawks to bring up judd again.

 

[Chewy]

LOL, it didn;t take long for the hawks to bring up judd again.

We didn't. The Collingwood fan, Decks did with this quote:

You just have to look at the whole look Judd Vs Hodge debate.