Coach Sam Mitchell - where is the pressure?

[Rusty Brookes]

But our top 10 draft picks in the last 5 years have been rubbish.

So recruiters are to blame! Get rid of the lot. How does the board not see this???

Also, How the * does Nash get a game? Because of his tackling? Absolutely useless disposal with his foot.

Yeah, it's a tricky one with the draft picks. Did we pick any up that weren't rated as top 10? Most drafts in the early stages go pretty much as expected if you look at any phantom draft. I reckon we haven't developed the players.

And, yep, I'm totally over Nash as well.

 

[Red Bull]

But our top 10 draft picks in the last 5 years have been rubbish.

So recruiters are to blame! Get rid of the lot. How does the board not see this???

Also, How the * does Nash get a game? Because of his tackling? Absolutely useless disposal with his foot.

 

[Hawks2011]

I'm aware the narrative has now become that wonder coach Sam Mitchell has been hamstrung by his predecessor, for obvious reasons, and that's certainly true. But Sam has also overseen the following:

• Happily dished out Ceglar only to bizarrely bring in an arguable worse replacement in Max Lynch. And threw in the Hawks third rounder on top of the third rounder they got for Ceglar from Geelong.
• Moved Tom Mitchell on for a bloke who can't get a game, leaving an already inexperienced midfield completely bereft of experience or leadership.
• Gave up a 2nd and 3rd rounder to move up from pick 27 to pick 18.
• Paid a 2nd round pick to give Chol 4 years who was subject to Bronx cheers from Hawks fans yesterday.
• Drafted a promising KPF in the MSD draft only to ship him off to Brisbane so that Mitchell could give his mate another contract. This on top of moving on another forward who kicked 15 goals in 11 games last year.
• Bought a small forward in via trade and then doubled down by drafting another instead of using the draft pick to bolster any other area that was lagging. In isolation grabbing Ginni or Watson is perfectly fine but getting both at the same time is weird.

Giving up a 2nd and 3rd rounder to move up from pick 27 to pick 18 allowed us to draft Josh Weddle. I would do this again without hesitation.

 

[Red Bull]

Lots of hawks old boys in the media have his back.
Being a champion player will always buy extra time with the fans but they are becoming increasingly restless.
The pressure of the mounting losses gets too much for club boards and they have to be seen to act.
History suggests the rookie coach of a rebuilding club anchored close to the bottom of the ladder usually walks the plank in the end …

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm aware the narrative has now become that wonder coach Sam Mitchell has been hamstrung by his predecessor, for obvious reasons, and that's certainly true. But Sam has also overseen the following:

• Happily dished out Ceglar only to bizarrely bring in an arguable worse replacement in Max Lynch. And threw in the Hawks third rounder on top of the third rounder they got for Ceglar from Geelong.

Max Lynch would have been a fine replacement for Ceglar had he not had the concussion issues. Easy to say in hindsight that it was a bad call.

Moved Tom Mitchell on for a bloke who can't get a game, leaving an already inexperienced midfield completely bereft of experience or leadership.

We didn’t move Tom Mitchell on for Stephens. I can’t believe that even needs to be pointed out.
He was a steal knives in a deal that got us a 2nd Round pick and opportunity for Newk and Worpel to start a midfield refresh.

Gave up a 2nd and 3rd rounder to move up from pick 27 to pick 18.

Do we have a list manager, or do you think Mitchell makes live draft trades?
We’d do that again every day of the week to get Weddle.

Paid a 2nd round pick to give Chol 4 years who was subject to Bronx cheers from Hawks fans yesterday.

Every man and their dog said Hawthorn needed to get a KF to help Lewis to bring the ball to the ground. 4yrs to Chol is a nothing burger.
Bronx cheers from morons, btw.

Drafted a promising KPF in the MSD draft only to ship him off to Brisbane so that Mitchell could give his mate another contract. This on top of moving on another forward who kicked 15 goals in 11 games last year.

Ryan was taken at 26yrs old and is underdeveloped. It made sense to get some experience into the list.
We got Gunston and Bodie Ryan in return, and Gunston’s ability to teach the youngsters at Box Hill has been in important part in seeing Ramsden and Dear to develop.

Bought a small forward in via trade and then doubled down by drafting another instead of using the draft pick to bolster any other area that was lagging. In isolation grabbing Ginni or Watson is perfectly fine but getting both at the same time is weird.

We are weeks, perhaps months away from losing two of our best small forwards from the list(Bruest and Wingard).
No one had Watson falling outside the top 5 in the draft, and he was the very reason numerous clubs wanted to get up to our pick.

This re-imagining of the list decisions with little to no context or understanding of why we did these things(and putting them solely at the feet of the coach) is peak Bigfooty.

 

[HTPunter]

Max Lynch would have been a fine replacement for Ceglar had he not had the concussion issues. Easy to say in hindsight that it was a bad call.



We didn’t move Tom Mitchell on for Stephens. I can’t believe that even needs to be pointed out.
He was a steal knives in a deal that got us a 2nd Round pick and opportunity for Newk and Worpel to start a midfield refresh.


Do we have a list manager, or do you think Mitchell makes live draft trades?
We’d do that again every day of the week to get Weddle.


Every man and their dog said Hawthorn needed to get a KF to help Lewis to bring the ball to the ground. 4yrs to Chol is a nothing burger.
Bronx cheers from morons, btw.


Ryan was taken at 26yrs old and is underdeveloped. It made sense to get some experience into the list.
We got Gunston and Bodie Ryan in return, and Gunston’s ability to teach the youngsters at Box Hill has been in important part in seeing Ramsden and Dear to develop.


We are weeks, perhaps months away from losing two of our best small forwards from the list(Bruest and Wingard).
No one had Watson falling outside the top 5 in the draft, and he was the very reason numerous clubs wanted to get up to our pick.

This re-imagining of the list decisions with little to no context or understanding of why we did these things(and putting them solely at the feet of the coach) is peak Bigfooty.

What/who changed from when Clarkson was apparently making all those calls though, as indicated by Hawks fans earlier ITT? Genuine question, McKenzie doesn’t have the same profile as a Dodoro or Wells so hard to know careers & positions unless followed the Hawks.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What/who changed from when Clarkson was apparently making all those calls though, as indicated by Hawks fans earlier ITT? Genuine question, McKenzie doesn’t have the same profile as a Dodoro or Wells so hard to know careers & positions unless followed the Hawks.

Clarkson and Wright held the reins.

Part of why Wright left, was the oversight that Clarkson had, and the lack of alignment on where the list was headed and what was needed.

McKenzie took over when Wright stood down.

 

[boncer34]

What/who changed from when Clarkson was apparently making all those calls though, as indicated by Hawks fans earlier ITT? Genuine question, McKenzie doesn’t have the same profile as a Dodoro or Wells so hard to know careers & positions unless followed the Hawks.

The colour of Clarko's polo.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

He'll be Hawks version of Brendan Bolton. Take the hits, blood kids, fix any culture issues and then probably get knifed by another coach or the board will succumb to pressures from members and media and do the inevitable.

Or much like Hawks in their recent dynasty... fall of a cliff for a few years, prepare the list well prior to a new franchise coming in and decimating things for other teams and reap the rewards of peaking at a good time.

Richmond were the greatest beneficiaries of this.

Which first, second or third year kids were going to propel the bottom teams from 2010, 2011, etc into worthy challengers? Absolutely none.

By 2017 those players were all hitting their peak years.

That whole idea is laughable.

 

[LifestyleSaints]

Sam Mitchell is a genius. He had the balls to get rid of all the oldies and load up on youth. He is rebuilding the way I would have liked St Kilda to. By the time Tassie come in Hawthorn will be winning premierships again!!!!!

 

[Crankyhawk]

1) Yeah, not great but ultimately meaningless given neither ended up doing much
2) Mitchell was well and truly cooked and stopping the progress of other mids. Happy for him he got the flag at the Pies
3) Yep, don't get that one
4) Chol was brought in as the replacement for Jacob Koschitzke - as amazing as it sounds, he's been an upgrade (he's already kicked the same number of goals this year than poor old Kosi who can't crack it for a game at the Tiges)
5) Ryan still can't crack the Lions forward line - he was offered a three year deal which looks like overs at the moment. Brockman moved back due to family reasons - it would have been a prick move to stop him going back to WA
6) We also have O'Sullivan and Bennetts who have performed really well at Box Hill and should have debuted by now

The last point is more of the issue. The development at Hawthorn has stalled and in a number of cases, players seem to have gone backward (see Newcombe, McDonald, Nash et al). We are the worst side at figuring out what to do with the sub. Our midfield relies on a mid draft pick (Worpel), a MSD pick (Newcombe) and a category B rookie pick (Nash). Day has A-grade potential but the others, simply don't have the skills to be elite. Our full back is a Melbourne cast-off (Frost), our secondary key forward is a Gold Coast/Richmond cast-off (Chol), our number one ruck is a Fremantle cast-off (Meek, who in all fairness has busted a gut all year and been one of our better players). Our major key forward can't get on the park (Lewis) and neither can the bloke who at least give us some dash (Jiath).

Clarkson's strength wasn't development. It was putting the pieces of a puzzle together, taking players that were no longer required at other clubs and slotting them together into a ruthless, efficient machine. Brad Hill is the only player that comes to mind that really grew under Clarkson - the rest were already there (Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Lewis, Roughead, Birchall, Williams, Bateman) or came in from other clubs (Burgoyne, Lake, Hale, Gibson, McEvoy). Rioli was a ready made player - he debuted round one of his first season.

And unfortunately, I think that's where we sit as a club at the moment because Mitchell is in the same boat. The difference is he didn't have the elite talent to build on and then the hook to get those elite players from other clubs in. IMHO, Mitchell has got to admit that the current midfield is not up to it, put the top 10 draft picks we've had in there (Josh Ward for example) and let them learn the craft. Because the current set up is not working - I'd rather try something new then go with the same rubbish that we've dished up this year.

Rant over.

​

Wasn’t number 3 (the draft upgrade) the price we had to pay? It did lead to Weddle, so seems ok atm

 

[smish]

We may never lose again

 

[HairyO]

A winless start to the season and at the foot of the table for Hawthorn after beginning a season I thought they'd be a surprise finalist.

Instead the Hawks are not the team I thought they'd be capable of taking the next step and are at the bottom. No pressure on Sam Mitchell yet to turn the club around.

Pressure to re-sign him ?

 

[Philhawk]

Lots of hawks old boys in the media have his back.
Being a champion player will always buy extra time with the fans but they are becoming increasingly restless.
The pressure of the mounting losses gets too much for club boards and they have to be seen to act.
History suggests the rookie coach of a rebuilding club anchored close to the bottom of the ladder usually walks the plank in the end …

Any updates?

 

[FreoGirl]

I think he is doing. great job - probably not a popular opinion from members of other clubs

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Any thought of Hawthorn being "surprise finalists" was and is ludicrous. They are firmly in the bottom 3 with North and West Coast, and probably out performed last year in getting 7 wins.

So with that being said, any talk about Sam Mitchell being under pressure is also crazy.

Ludicrous!

 

[Lia]

Ludicrous!

View attachment 2015556

Nice to confirm that I was right about Sam Mitchell not needing to be under pressure, as usual. One of the best minds in footy.

 

[Freomaniac]

Richmond were the greatest beneficiaries of this.

Which first, second or third year kids were going to propel the bottom teams from 2010, 2011, etc into worthy challengers? Absolutely none.

By 2017 those players were all hitting their peak years.

That whole idea is laughable.

Richmonds 2017 and 2019 flags were scarily similar to Geelongs 2007 and 2009 flags.

Both had coaches that lasted 10 seasons. Both had been given the chance to slowly build up the squad. Both sides won their drought breaking 1st flags vs SA teams. Cats ended a 44 year drought in 2007 beating Port. Tigers ended a 37 year drought in 2017 beating the crows.

Sam Mitchell is a genius. He had the balls to get rid of all the oldies and load up on youth. He is rebuilding the way I would have liked St Kilda to. By the time Tassie come in Hawthorn will be winning premierships again!!!!!

you might be right. Hawks, Crows and North all didnt play finals from 2019-2024. That means 6 years of no finals.

So.... since all 3 sides finished bottom 4 in 2020. That 1st batch of 18-21 year olds in 2020 draft should be 22-25 year olds in 2024 with 50-80 games under the belt.

Pressure to re-sign him ?

Random question, before he got injured, whats your Opinion of Lloyd Meek?

Typical ruckman that was slowly developed in his 1st 4 or 5 years. But found a new club and finally got a good run of games.

 

[HairyO]

Richmonds 2017 and 2019 flags were scarily similar to Geelongs 2007 and 2009 flags.

Both had coaches that lasted 10 seasons. Both had been given the chance to slowly build up the squad. Both sides won their drought breaking 1st flags vs SA teams. Cats ended a 44 year drought in 2007 beating Port. Tigers ended a 37 year drought in 2017 beating the crows.

you might be right. Hawks, Crows and North all didnt play finals from 2019-2024. That means 6 years of no finals.

So.... since all 3 sides finished bottom 4 in 2020. That 1st batch of 18-21 year olds in 2020 draft should be 22-25 year olds in 2024 with 50-80 games under the belt.

Random question, before he got injured, whats your Opinion of Lloyd Meek?

Typical ruckman that was slowly developed in his 1st 4 or 5 years. But found a new club and finally got a good run of games.

Meek had been brilliant for us. Certainly in the top half dozen ruckmen in the comp for consistency of performance.

 

[Mojo]

This thread has not aged well for some.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Random question, before he got injured, whats your Opinion of Lloyd Meek?

Typical ruckman that was slowly developed in his 1st 4 or 5 years. But found a new club and finally got a good run of games.

The change in the ruck rule has helped him, but also he had to change how he contested once the ball hits the deck as he was a playing a bit nice last year.

Would have been in the conversation for one of the most improved players in the game prior to the ankle injury.

 

[Jane Doe]

Lots of hawks old boys in the media have his back.
Being a champion player will always buy extra time with the fans but they are becoming increasingly restless.
The pressure of the mounting losses gets too much for club boards and they have to be seen to act.
History suggests the rookie coach of a rebuilding club anchored close to the bottom of the ladder usually walks the plank in the end …

You have been quiet lately for some reason

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Lots of hawks old boys in the media have his back.
Being a champion player will always buy extra time with the fans but they are becoming increasingly restless.
The pressure of the mounting losses gets too much for club boards and they have to be seen to act.
History suggests the rookie coach of a rebuilding club anchored close to the bottom of the ladder usually walks the plank in the end …

Hawk old boys in the media?
Dubstall and Brereton? Wowwee. Those are some serious, heavy lifting journos!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You have been quiet lately for some reason

He will reappear as soon as we lose our next game.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But our top 10 draft picks in the last 5 years have been rubbish.

So recruiters are to blame! Get rid of the lot. How does the board not see this???

Also, How the **** does Nash get a game? Because of his tackling? Absolutely useless disposal with his foot.

This post is very humorous.