Thanks for the reminder
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Proposal to include premierships dating back to 1870 gathering pace
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Completely agree. It's such a false equivalency and it's not really relevant.
Feels like the arguments about My Dad vs Your Dad in the playground, it's a pissing contest over very very little.
and equal to the Saints
- Dec 20, 2023
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Probs not the best example as Braveheart is a masterpiece
I vote for whatever is worse for Geelong
Oh, Braveheart's my favourite movie of all time. Merely making the point that it was so long ago, it's pointless to argue over who won.Probs not the best example as Braveheart is a masterpiece
I vote for whatever is worse for Geelong
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Premier comp...whose winners lost multiple championship games not just to interstate sides but even managed to lose them to the VFA.
The VFL may have had the most elite players on balance, but given the top talent was split not just across the states but also even within Victoria for a good chunk of history, it's a massive stretch to call it the 'Premier comp' as if this is some official status, when there's years it didn't even have the best team. Top national talent was way too dispersed.
It would be like watching an Italian club win the Champion's league and then going 'yeah, nah I reckon La Liga has the most elite players out of all European leagues so therefore we don't count Champion's League, or Serie A or Premier League titles'
It's an extremely dumb argument.
MelbourneGWS
Premiership Player
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But South Melbourne and Sydney Swans are the same club despite the name change to Sydney? Sydney claims all the history of South Melbourne
With respect, I'm not sure this is a great example you have put forth, as the old English 1st division & Premier League records are very often combined when counting clubs total number of titles in England. Very often.
If anything, the way in which the EPL is so inclusive of prior league records seems to only add more weight to Colin's ideas for me.
The Premier League's website only refers to titles won from 92/3 onwards.
Premier League Season Reviews, Historical Stats
Read about every Premier League season since 1992-93, including top goalscorers and most clean sheets. Watch video footage and view photo galleries. Visit the official website of the Premier League for more details.
www.premierleague.com
Clubs refer to titles won in either first division or premier league. Go to Man United's website, for instance, and they say 20 titles, which includes both, but click through and there are separate sections for First Division and Premier League.
Man Utd Trophy Room | Club Honours Board, Silverware & Trophies
Read more about Man United's major silverware triumphs.
www.manutd.com
Clubs can record history however they like, but the league should stick to it's own history only.
Yes, it is broadly acknowledged and spoken of that Man Utd has won 20 titles in England. No one seems to diminish the worthiness of the ones they won prior to the formation of the EPL.
Why are Carlton's 22 Premierships (inclusive of 6 from the VFA era) not viewed in the same light by the vast majority of the football public? Why shouldn't their VFA flags be viewed similarly to Man United's first division titles?
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North England accent LOL
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The Premier League's website only refers to titles won from 92/3 onwards.
Premier League Season Reviews, Historical Stats
Read about every Premier League season since 1992-93, including top goalscorers and most clean sheets. Watch video footage and view photo galleries. Visit the official website of the Premier League for more details.
Clubs refer to titles won in either first division or premier league. Go to Man United's website, for instance, and they say 20 titles, which includes both, but click through and there are separate sections for First Division and Premier League.
Man Utd Trophy Room | Club Honours Board, Silverware & Trophies
Read more about Man United's major silverware triumphs.
Clubs can record history however they like, but the league should stick to it's own history only.
Was going to say the EPL official records least support that argument. They usually refer to EPL titles only, and the AFL came a few seasons before that
Carter's argument is about amending the official AFL record book, not what a random news outlet or broadcaster might show as a combined record.
In the EPL's case you can view it on their official website here: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/records
If the EPL were to be consistent with Carter's idea as you claim, they would include titles prior to the early 90s. But they don't.
Of course the Premier Legaue website is only going to only list titles won in that era. No one has ever argued that first division titles should come under the banner of Premier League titles (not that I'm aware of anyway).
The point is that when referring to how many Titles/Premierships a side has won in English football, they do not discount the first division era (like we do regarding the VFA era for some reason).
Most people would say that Man Utd has won 20 titles, including 13 in the EPL era, but if someone says Essendon have won 20 Premierships they would get laughed at at best.
Why do we not treat old VFA Prernieships in the same way as First Division football titles? How are they different in this regard?
Premier League all-time winners 2024 | Statista
Which team has won the Premier League the most times? As of 2024, Manchester United had won the English top tier on 20 occasions.
www.statista.com
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How anyone views anything is a matter of personal opinion. These are windy rhetorical questions.
Jumping from "why should some premierships count?" doesn't get you to "Geelong won 5 VFLAFL flags on the 1880s".
Carters argument is a dungheap of rhetorical questions and factual error. "People forgot" "the AFLs earliest era" these are factually incorrect statements.
There were no premierships contested in the VFA in the period Col wants the VFL/AFL to retrospectively create.
Geelong can count these journalist-awarded faux flags if they like, it would be tragic copium if they did.
It's would be incorrect for the VFL/AFL (whose identity changes in Cols argument with illogical ease) to acknowledge in the VFL/AFL flags won in another comp.
The weaseling about "premier comp" is made up garbage, where's the official crown worn by a footy comp that makes it the "premier league"? Or is that awarded decades later by journalists too?
The man's arguments are a sad joke. It's worrying such a person was in a position of authority. Sloppy, dishonourable and shonky garbage.
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Col doesn't want to turn old VFA Premierships into VFL or AFL ones. He just wants them to be formally recognised as Premierships by the AFL, and thus, added to the official tallies of Premierships won by the clubs. Like is the case with English Football Titles.
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What’s weird is I see Geelong people argue two things:
1. Add old premierships to the tally
2. Only AFL flags matter
Both are used to say they are the most successful club.
Both contradict each other
Both are used to cope with the fact that they aren’t one of the most successful clubs in AFL even though their supporters think they are.
Not sure why it’s so hard to leave it as it is.
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