The Law PSO's - what the hell?

[Bosun]

I'm not saying you are wrong but why do the posters inside trains that state ticket inspectors powers state that they are legally allowed to hold you until police arrive

If they can not touch you are you expected to just calmly hang out and wait?

Bit of a grey area, they are supposedly allow to detain you but cannot physically detain you. I don't know how it works or how it is enforced.

 

[Pie eyed]

What about all of the human trash that would then be free to get about on public transport unchecked?

Remove the cost factor and what's to say public transport doesn't become an even worse experience?

Trouble is you seem to consider everyone who is not you human trash.
Realistically most of the "human trash" I know are middle class morons who think they rule the world because they pay an absolute minimum of tax.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Were you an employee of Metro, or were you a state employee? Even the armed guards at the train yards, who aren't state employees (I know one), have strict liability and protocols they have to follow when dealing with potential law breakers, which are basically the same as any private citizen.

Authorised personnel have the same powers of arrest and restraint as an everyday Joe. If you are committing an offence such as assault, they have limited powers to arrest and restrain you whilst waiting for the arrival of law enforcement. They aren't allowed to do this over ticketing issues.

Connem. Paid by company. Authority however is state delegated and, although conditional, is very real. Public employees by proxy.
Arrest & release differs from citizens arrest (s458 arrest).

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Bit of a grey area, they are supposedly allow to detain you but cannot physically detain you. I don't know how it works or how it is enforced.

I can assure you this is not the case.
Anyone can physically detain you - if they have 'finds committing' condition covered - for any offence. AO powers go further again.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I can assure you this is not the case.
Anyone can physically detain you - if they have 'finds committing' condition covered - for any offence. AO powers go further again.

No they don't.

They could attempt to detain you, as per the same laws that apply to other private citizens if you commit an offence (e.g. assault, vandalism, causing a public disturbance), however current operating procedure is that they are not to detain passengers, nor pursue fleeing passengers involving disputes over ticketing.

This is coming from someone (not me), who worked for Metro and now a security contractor who does the security at most of the railyards and upgrade sites in Vic.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Trouble is you seem to consider everyone who is not you human trash.
Realistically most of the "human trash" I know are middle class morons who think they rule the world because they pay an absolute minimum of tax.

That's all well and good. However they are generally not the ones who pose a threat to peoples safety on public transport or damage public property.

Human trash are people who can't go about their every day lives without acting like campaigners around other people.

 

[radiojake]

That's all well and good. However they are generally not the ones who pose a threat to peoples safety on public transport or damage public property.

Human trash are people who can't go about their every day lives without acting like Syds around other people.

That's funny, because the only time I ever get aprehensive on public transport is when I see a whole group of AOs or PSOs (holding guns?!), even if I am holding a valid ticket -

The guy who lost his hand after being chased under a moving train North Melbourne station might also testify that the homeless alcoholic is less of a threat than the armed thugs

 

[Gus Poyet]

That's funny, because the only time I ever get aprehensive on public transport is when I see a whole group of AOs or PSOs (holding guns?!), even if I am holding a valid ticket -

That says more about you than them.

Most people will feel safer.

The guy who lost his hand after being chased under a moving train North Melbourne station might also testify that the homeless alcoholic is less of a threat than the armed thugs

If you've done nothing wrong why run?

 

[radiojake]

If you've done nothing wrong why run?

Maybe because he knew he would've copped a pile driver spear tackle -

He didn't have a ticket, but to lose a hand is a travesty

 

[Gus Poyet]

Maybe because he knew he would've copped a pile driver spear tackle -

He didn't have a ticket, but to lose a hand is a travesty

So he's running because he knows he's done something illegal.

You're not seriously trying to blame others for the lose of his hand are you?

 

[radiojake]

I'm not blaming anyone, but the fact of the matter is...

If they didn't chase him......

 

[Gus Poyet]

The fact of the matter is that if he didn't run he'd probably have gotten a fine and walked away in one piece.

After that anything that happens is down to his actions.

 

[radiojake]

Fact is, if they didn't chase him, he wouldn't have fallen under a train and lost his hand -

We can go around in circles all night if you want, Gus -

I have a natural cynicism of all those who have been endowered with the state sanction monopoly of violence - Considering your libertarian stances, I would've thought you'd be similar -

 

[Gus Poyet]

Fact is, if they didn't chase him, he wouldn't have fallen under a train and lost his hand -

We can go around in circles all night if you want, Gus -

I have a natural cynicism of all those who have been endowered with the state sanction monopoly of violence - Considering your libertarian stances, I would've thought you'd be similar -

Actually we can stop right at the point where he runs away from them. That's where it all begins. Nothing after that is anyones fault but his own.

If they never chase an offender then it becomes common knowledge all you have to do is run away from them and you're free to rort the system.

The difference is if I didn't buy a ticket then it's my own fault if I get fined. Nobody elses. It's up to me to take repsonsibility for my own actions.

 

[radiojake]

Didn't talk about getting fined -

I'm talking about him losing his hand

 

[Gus Poyet]

Well if he'd stood there and took the fine like the majority of other people do he'd still have his hand.

Nobody made him run...

 

[Helicopter Punt]

No they don't.

They could attempt to detain you, as per the same laws that apply to other private citizens if you commit an offence (e.g. assault, vandalism, causing a public disturbance), however current operating procedure is that they are not to detain passengers, nor pursue fleeing passengers involving disputes over ticketing.

This is coming from someone (not me), who worked for Metro and now a security contractor who does the security at most of the railyards and upgrade sites in Vic.

If this is true they have had their powers stripped/truncated. Not sure how they could do their job in any meaningful way. Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Sterge]

As that video shows, you are still every chance of catching a flogging, especially if a PSO/transport police catch you.

I would actually like to see a ticket inspector try to pick me up and slam me down like they did to the girl

 

[Helicopter Punt]

AO powers go further again.

No they don't.

They could attempt to detain you, as per the same laws that apply to other private citizens if you commit an offence (e.g. assault, vandalism, causing a public disturbance), however current operating procedure is that they are not to detain passengers, nor pursue fleeing passengers involving disputes over ticketing.

This is coming from someone (not me), who worked for Metro and now a security contractor who does the security at most of the railyards and upgrade sites in Vic.

Anyone has a legit question ask me. Don't make shit up for your own self benefit

Are you equipped to clear up above?
Do AOs retain powers to physically detain and arrest&release?
Is your knowledge first hand?

 

[CM86]

I would actually like to see a ticket inspector try to pick me up and slam me down like they did to the girl

Are you saying, that if you had been in that exact situation, that the ticket inspector would have acted differently?

Almost seems like you just pointed out the crux of the argument....

 

[Sterge]

Are you saying, that if you had been in that exact situation, that the ticket inspector would have acted differently?

Almost seems like you just pointed out the crux of the argument....

Well he's not picking me up for starters and secondly I wouldn't of slapped him so there would be no need for them to 'restrain' me

The crux of the argument is people with tickets doing the right thing to begin with don't get 'attacked'

 

[CM86]

Well he's not picking me up for starters and secondly I wouldn't of slapped him so there would be no need for them to 'restrain' me

The crux of the argument is people with tickets doing the right thing to begin with don't get 'attacked'

Do you think he would have dominated you with physical strength?

And, no! The crux of the argument is the use of force on a child.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Are you equipped to clear up above?
Do AOs retain powers to physically detain and arrest&release?
Is your knowledge first hand?

He has cleared it up before. But the posts were deleted in the move, confirmed what I posted.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

He has cleared it up before. But the posts were deleted in the move, confirmed what I posted.

Furry muff.
It must have changed when PSOs were introduced.

 

[Pie eyed]

That's all well and good. However they are generally not the ones who pose a threat to peoples safety on public transport or damage public property.

Human trash are people who can't go about their every day lives without acting like Syds around other people.

What exactly is a Syd?
I know you use it often so I better find out.