Putting our best players in the back 6.

[CaptainHodgey]

Looking at this week's back 6 I cant help but think we are going to struggle against any half decent team.

I would love to see how our team would go if priority were given to the back 6 so that our best players, where appropriate would play there.

Compare:

B: Guerra Gilham Brown
HB: Hodge Roughead Young

to

B: Guerra Gilham Murphy
HB: Gibson Shoe Ladson

I know there is an element of robbing Peter to pay Paul here but honestly our last 15 rounds of football have been mostly lacking with an atrocious win/loss record against any half decent teams.
The one which galls me most is the refusal to use Roughead in defense. Yes Buddy will get more attention but lets not forget the horrible forward lines West Coat Eagles would bring into grand fiinals in 2005/2006. And Cam Mooney and Tom Hawkins for Geelong....need I say more. Good defences win games and I just think we should reprioritise to put our best options into defense and fill holes elsewhere instead of vice versa.

 

[Brant]

Good & interesting post.

For me HODGE has to go back.

I like LADSON in the back 6 cos he defends well & has a good, clear head in a crisis - I worry seeing YOUNG back there as I don't think he defends well & his hands may not be fast enough in traffic - would much rather Laddo get it out & hit YOUNG in space, releasing him to run.

If ROUGHY went back then SCHOEY has to play as a tall & leading Forward.

 

[CaptainHodgey]

Good & interesting post.

For me HODGE has to go back.

I like LADSON in the back 6 cos he defends well & has a good, clear head in a crisis - I worry seeing YOUNG back there as I don't think he defends well & his hands may not be fast enough in traffic - would much rather Laddo get it out & hit YOUNG in space, releasing him to run.

If ROUGHY went back then SCHOEY has to play as a tall & leading Forward.

Young I was grasping a bit. Really need someone with pace here but all those are being used in the midfield. Ideally this spot would be for a bateman, burgoyne or rioli. Whether we can afford that is debateable.

 

[CaptainHodgey]

If Roughy were to play at CHB our forward line would look something like this:

HF Rioli Franklin Schoenmakers
FF Osborne Dowler Peterson

its already better than the forward lines WCE would regularly serve up in their premisership years

 

[Hawks2009]

I think our main problem with our back 6 is the fact that they dont defend well. We try to put players there who use the ball well like Birch and ladson etc. but the simple thing is that they arent great in actualy defending.

May sound simple or stupid but i really think that we have gone overboard in having guys there that use it well. I really think that 1 on 1 or side is pretty poor at defending. The proof in this is that we normally dont allow many inside 50's like other sides do. I think last year we were in the bottom 3 for allowing inside 50's, but the conversion rate once inside 50 was very high in conceeding points.

We just need to find the balance between having our good kicks back there and having our good defenders there. Remember, it is called defence for a reason.

 

[CaptainHodgey]

I think our main problem with our back 6 is the fact that they dont defend well. We try to put players there who use the ball well like Birch and ladson etc. but the simple thing is that they arent great in actualy defending.

May sound simple or stupid but i really think that we have gone overboard in having guys there that use it well. I really think that 1 on 1 or side is pretty poor at defending. The proof in this is that we normally dont allow many inside 50's like other sides do. I think last year we were in the bottom 3 for allowing inside 50's, but the conversion rate once inside 50 was very high in conceeding points.

We just need to find the balance between having our good kicks back there and having our good defenders there. Remember, it is called defence for a reason.

I totally agree with this. Also we are slow in defence with ladson and guerra and birchall. No pace and also none are good 1 v 1 players.

Hodge and Brown and Roughead are terrific 1 v 1 by contrast. Roughead is also a superb field kick which indictates his goal kicking woes are likely in between the ears. Lets get these 3 back in defence and rebuild from there. Add Gilham and a fit Gibson and what a difference that would make to our defensive composure. The inside 50 is not a good place to look like a deer in the headlights and thats what many of guys look like at the moment.

 

[Henry Jr]

I think our main problem with our back 6 is the fact that they dont defend well. We try to put players there who use the ball well like Birch and ladson etc. but the simple thing is that they arent great in actualy defending.

May sound simple or stupid but i really think that we have gone overboard in having guys there that use it well. I really think that 1 on 1 or side is pretty poor at defending. The proof in this is that we normally dont allow many inside 50's like other sides do. I think last year we were in the bottom 3 for allowing inside 50's, but the conversion rate once inside 50 was very high in conceeding points.

We just need to find the balance between having our good kicks back there and having our good defenders there. Remember, it is called defence for a reason.

Thats also a by product of the zone. With sides doing forwards presses now, leaving the full foward on his own basically. So that skews the figures quite a bit.

But agree with what you are saying otherwise.

 

[lickmerocks]

our match winners like Hodge and Roughead must be in a position where they can win us a game not saving us the game in the back line.

If Roughy keeps fluffing sitters then he needs a spell to get his confidence back.

Take the game on.
Back our side to win the contested footy and move it forward more than North do.
Aim to win each qtr by 1 goal.

sounds simple doesnt it.

 

[Gut Runner]

Don't get me wrong I love Shoenmakers but he is not ready at the moment and with Gibson now out this will high light the issue even more.

He is 12 months away minimum to being a good/great defender!

 

[DannyJ]

I think Roughead stays forward. We need him there.

Schoenmakers needs everyone to have faith in him. He is ready to be a player this year, make no mistake. Schoe will grow and by round 10-11 be playing very well.

Luke Hodge is the only player im unsure where to play. HBF or Mid/Forward.

Tough.

 

[SA HAWK]

We will never be a top side until we fix our defence.

We had all of last year to address this problem but instead played players like Robert Campbell & Tom Murphy as kpd which achieved nothing going forward.

Out of desperation we recruited Josh Gibson who is not the answer to our backline problems long term.

I am all for trying Roughead down back and Shoenmakers up forward he has been struggling badly in defence this year and is obviously being targeted by opposition teams. His turnovers in defence are costing us badly on a weekly basis.

We may as try something new because the current team is not a contender.

 

[Hawker_Ant]

Still have no replacemrnt for Croad at full-back... need another big body with miles of experience. Gibber was next best (no real replacement) and now gone for probly the season?

Really... luck to Gilham but he's no Croad Needs few more years to catch up... but that's the defence we are left with.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

It is a real dilemma for us. I do not rate our back 6 at all.
Goo Rough Laddo
Stratts, Hodge Birch

Still not that flash but better. Only moving Rough will not disrupt the team too much. Problem is we cannot play Rough down back until we get a second ruck on the paddock.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

.

Don't get me wrong I love Shoenmakers but he is not ready at the moment and with Gibson now out this will high light the issue even more.

He is 12 months away minimum to being a good/great defender!

I have to agree Ryan, if anything, is developing slowly. I’ve looked again at the Pies game, he is not up to it at the moment. Clarko is banking on faith that persevering with the youngster is the best way to go. I keep on saying our backline is so brittle and the Schoe is very much a part of that negative.

And as for putting our best players in the back 6, as topsey turvey as the suggestion is, if it means less embarrassment to our club, so be it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lest we forget​

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Just one day I would love to see:

HB: Hodge - Roughead - Burgoyne
FB: Guerra - Gilham - Gibson

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

our match winners like Hodge and Roughead must be in a position where they can win us a game not saving us the game in the back line.....

I agree to an extent. We can load up our forward and mid fields and take a puncher's chance approach. Now this may be our only chance.

But our team balance is way out of whack. Bud and Rough are close enough to the top two KPF combo. Schoey and Gilly are close enough to the worst KPD combo. Swapping Schoey and Roughie puts the both combos around mid table.

Had Dowler or Morton showed a bit more the decision would be easier.

 

[Hawk88]

To all those who reckon we should not change our back 6 and think we going to win a premiership are dreaming.

Yes we may lose some goal scoring power, but by moving Roughead back we lessen the opposition goal scoring power also.

If we had Roughead on Hall againest the Doggies the score might of been very different.

Great defences win games! Not poor ones.

P.S Whats to say Shoe or a lesser extent Dowler stepped up and became a 50 goal forward? Then we would all be applauding the coaching stuff.

Get it done Clarko!

 

[Threadkilla]

I'm having deja vu...

Careful guys, this kind of opinion/suggestion will get you shot down quick smart around here

 

[EightyNineChamps]

To all those who reckon we should not change our back 6 and think we going to win a premiership are dreaming.

Yes we may lose some goal scoring power, but by moving Roughead back we lessen the opposition goal scoring power also.

If we had Roughead on Hall againest the Doggies the score might of been very different.

Great defences win games! Not poor ones.

P.S Whats to say Shoe or a lesser extent Dowler stepped up and became a 50 goal forward? Then we would all be applauding the coaching stuff.

Get it done Clarko!

This is exactly the way it should be, we are far too vulnerable to the opposition once we lose the centre breaks. Having a defence that is rock solid is the recipe for prolonged success.

Roughie is the logical guy to replace Croad he is cool headed, can play close, quick for his size, spoil, tackle, use his bulk to out body his opponent and above all is able to take Contested Marks. And BTW is able to hit up targets accurately up to 45 mts.

We have persisted long enough with Roughie as a permanent Forward, you only have to look at him and he has never been comfortable looking at those Big Sticks. He is and never will be a natural KPF, he would be best used to pinch hit only in the forward line for match ups if need be.

Imagine if Carlton had taken this obstinate approach with Silvani. By having Roughie as a KPD and have Hodge next to him we would problably create one of the best defences in the league. I can just imagine the run we could get from defence and with players like Bates and JKT and Young recieving those bullets from our backline from Rougie and Hodge the opposition would be hard pressed to soak the inside 50 pressure on a continual basis.

Really have a think about it, if we were coached by Mathews and he has subsribed to this, we would have some intersting games against some of the good sides going forward.

End of Rant!!

 

[CaptainHodgey]

I'm having deja vu...

Careful guys, this kind of opinion/suggestion will get you shot down quick smart around here

Yes I am waiting for the usual suspects to come in here and shoot this down but maybe , just maybe some people are taking the rose coloured glasses off instead acting like sheep incapable of independent thought.

Gee I would love for Roughead to be just trialled there for 5 games. Seeing Shoe looking like Bambi about to be struck by a car makes me feel nauseous. There really is no mentor for him down there like Fletcher for Pears, or like Scarlett for Harry Taylor. Everyone is trying to learn the caper at the same time its all quite depressing really....

 

[PNess]

Would put Brown back before Hodge...

Hodgey's been trimmed down to play midfield. Lacks the size of previous seasons. Not saying he can't play there but would put Brown back first.

 

[rich_]

We have persisted long enough with Roughie as a permanent Forward, you only have to look at him and he has never been comfortable looking at those Big Sticks. He is and never will be a natural KPF, he would be best used to pinch hit only in the forward line for match ups if need be.

End of Rant!!

Thats crap, he kicked 75 goals in 08.

 

[Threadkilla]

Thats crap, he kicked 75 goals in 08.

Yes mate but if we persevered with guys based on seasons gone, Jonathon Hay would still be at the Hawks.

Don't get me wrong - I know Roughy can turn it around, but he is a perfect fit for us down back. Nevermind the fact he may get his eye back in - at the moment he's struggling with set shots, and he is exactly what we need down back. Give it a shot is all I'm asking. I mean @#$%, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work - we move on.
The end.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Must say, looking at what others teams have down back, our back line is in the bottom half of the comp.

 

[SA HAWK]

Must say, looking at what others teams have down back, our back line is in the bottom half of the comp.

Worst along with Richmond imo.