Review R15: Port v Adelaide Review

[*PAF]

Because the crows were able to score freely with no key forwards. In fact they grabbed the nearest half back they could find put him at full forward and he kicked goals. There midfield won the game . The midfield wins all games.

Only when our KPFs fail to put any scoreboard pressure.
On another note, we were lucky they had no KPFs.

 

[Portia]

Because the crows were able to score freely with no key forwards. In fact they grabbed the nearest half back they could find put him at full forward and he kicked goals. There midfield won the game . The midfield wins all games.

Except when it doesn't. Have you forgotten all those Tredrea games where the opposition midfield won on numbers but we kicked 6 more goals?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Actually I agree with Ploppy to a point.

When Walker, Callinan and Petrenko went down mid week and Crows supporters started to fret, I told them that it wouldn't matter because they could redraft Jarrhyn Jacky and he could kick enough goals to get them a win when they will more than double our inside 50s.

Cue Ricky Henderson being elevated to legend status in the Spuds that tear you apart HoF.

If your midfield is that dominant, you will win.

Against a better side with a midfield that could match them in the middle, losing Tippett and McKernan after having already lost Walker would have been devastating.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Except when it doesn't. Have you forgotten all those Tredrea games where the opposition midfield won on numbers but we kicked 6 more goals?

They can win on midfield numbers and lose the game. They can't set records for hit outs and have 2:1 I50 differential and lose the game. Can't happen.

Schulz would have made us more respectable but even with Carey in our forward line we'd have gotten shellacked.

 

[Peck]

Except when it doesn't. Have you forgotten all those Tredrea games where the opposition midfield won on numbers but we kicked 6 more goals?

Yeah, my comment was a bit over the top.

I thought about it, and realised Schulz would have probably have changed the margin by 2-4 goals. But I also think that if you removed Sam Jacobs, and Scott Thompson from their side, then the score comes back a shit load. A big KPF gets you over the line in really close games, but a good midfield gets you those close games. Forward structure, and good delivery into the forward 50 is so much more important than having someone who is tall and can take big pack marks, at least when you have a few smaller guys who can win one-on-ones and find space well. The key is though, that the small guys can also rotate through the midfield.

 

[Forzaport]

Was at a function until late night so was only able to check the scores from time to time. Clearly, I don't have to watch a replay of the game. Reading this thread, there are some all too familiar themes. Our size. Our ruck selection. Our forward/half forward lines. And let's not forget our utter failure to ever capitalise on an advantage against a strong opponent.

 

[Peck]

I don't think having Redden in would have stopped Jacobs, and I don't think he would have added much up forward/around the ground, so I think we took the right option leaving him out. Having both Surjan and Logan in, given how Jonas played though...

 

[stewie griffen]

Man its hard work supporting this club sometimes. They tease us with quarters and parts of games, throw up games like St Kilda, Carlton and North but then just fall apart.

Its nothing new that some of our guys need to bulk up, again no targets in in the forward line, poor skills, turnovers, lack of defensive pressure, poor leading, smashed in the clearances, lack of tackling. Mind you I'd have problems leading if I was in our forward line.

Butch seriously needs to add 5 or 10 kg's of muscle to be a key forward in the AFL, I could probably go through most of our list and say the same thing tho.

Our problem is tho, we don't lack for guys to drop, but noone is knocking down the door to get in the side.

Pittard, Salter and Newton have only just come into their respective league teams, Ah Chee is in the reserves. I don't even know why we bothered drafting Blee tbh, if we was ever going to play it was when Bob was dropped and Jacko injured. Is Webb a better option than Lobbe, Redden or Renouf - I doubt it.

I'd love to see Salter and DStewart in the forward line to basically say ok boys you have 6 weeks to show us you want to have a career. And if we are going to keep Westhoff, put him on a wing or as a third tall.... he's not a key forwards arseh*le

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Actually I agree with Ploppy to a point.

When Walker, Callinan and Petrenko went down mid week and Crows supporters started to fret, I told them that it wouldn't matter because they could redraft Jarrhyn Jacky and he could kick enough goals to get them a win when they will more than double our inside 50s.

Cue Ricky Henderson being elevated to legend status in the Spuds that tear you apart HoF.

If your midfield is that dominant, you will win.

Against a better side with a midfield that could match them in the middle, losing Tippett and McKernan after having already lost Walker would have been devastating.

Ricky ******* Henderson please.

 

[ploppy]

I can never understand why some of our guys can't put on much weight. I can put on 3 kgs at lunch today.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I would throw a salary package at Gary Ayres.

Would have us playing the right way. Just get him a quality Football Ops Manager to deal with list manangement/recruiting and let the man coach.

Yep I called for Ayres to be appointed our backlines coach at the end of last season. He took Port Melbourne to 18-0 + 3-0 in the finals. They won the first 7 or 8 games this year before losing and were sitting 10-2 before this weekend. They don't any affiliation with Vic AFL clubs, develop their own players as well as recruit them.

Get him to the club in October in any one of 3 or 4 capacities, back lines coach, mids coach, footy ops manager - with a no bullshit attitude, or Primus' mentor - the one we have been look for. Now is the time to start setting this up, not September or October.

I would bring him in next year as Primus' mentor and if we have a shit 2013 we have a ready made coach, sitting there who knows where all the skeltons are and knows who needs to be cut and who can stay, how the club works, what resources we have or don't have - ie don't waste 12 months feeling their way.

Its time Port got someone in from the Hawthorn network rather than the otherway round. Use all of Ayres contact in Melbourne to help get better people to the club.

 

[Zahara]

Everyone on this board should procreate heavily until each of us have three males minimum, and we force our boys to dedicate their lives to learning the craft of AFL football. Make sure they barrack for Port Adelaide, and play poorly in front of talent scouts and the like, so that Port are the only ones aware of their talent, and the only ones willing to draft them.

It'll take some time, but it's totally worth it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

They seem to have really had a spurt over the pre-season under Sanderson. Surely we could catch up fairly quickly with a similarly motivated fitness guru? There has to be a threshold of physical development so once they've put on the major bulk it's only marginal improvement from there.

We need a complete new medical program to catch up quickly.

Maybe borrow the one the WCE used over the 1990/91 presason and rocked up for the 1991 season as giants.

 

[The Hobo]

Let me start by saying the game plan is severely lacking. So many times we won the ball on the wings or coming out of 50, and around the halfway line look up and there was nobody in sight. There was no link between the middle of the ground into our forward 50, which meant the ball was pumped long and high allowing opposition players plenty of time to make a spoil. Even when a mark was taken, it was just inside 50 or just outside. We need some overlapping run there to make sure the ball gets much deeper into the 50.

It's easy to blame guys like Butcher, Westhoff Ebert and Trengove, but how often was the ball kicked to their advantage? We could have had Tredrea in his prime out there and it wouldn't have made a huge difference. We need a good half forward who links up with the midfield and will set up the talls. Pumping it in is not the right way to go every time.

Finally I can't think of the tactical reasons behind having Jacob's as the sub. Most teams have an exciting player who can score a few quick goals, or break some lines etc. as the sub. David Rodan showed in the first round what a Sub can do. Why pick one of the most boring vanilla players as a sub? Jacob's offers nothing as a sub, and i'd much rather have kept Wingard out there.

The other problem, our players are all going for the same ball instead of one trying to shepard or help out the other, they go for the ball, both end up on the floor, leaving loose Crows everywhere with nobody chasing them. I'm talking marking contests, loose balls, everything. Even if a crow has the ball, 3 port players try to jump on him, he gets a handball out, and there's free crow's everywhere because the Port guys are all on the floor. Getting drawn to the ball far too easily.

Player Reviews:

Boak - First game back for a while, missed an absolute sitter of a goal - did a few good things but is still yet to become that superstar we all hoped. Needs to put on some size to be more dominant in the contest.

Chaplin - Excellent at reading the play and getting a spoil in or taking a mark in defence. Once he does that though, his kicking let him down too often. Needs some work on his skills and he can be very very good.

Brad Ebert - Tried hard, won plenty of the ball in close, used it well enough. Can't fault him, needed more help though.

Pfeiffer - Thought it was one of his more consistent games, played well for most of the 4 quarters.

Cornes - Not sure why he was moved off Sloan when he was doing such a great job. Seemed to get moved to Dangerfield, and then again to someone else. Did ok, didn't seem to make any glaring errors.

Mccarthy - Saw him kick off his left a few times, but seemed to go straight to the opposition. But still, the kick had decent depth to it and it's clear it's been worked on. Disposal by right foot seems to have suffered. His spot would be in jeapordy next week i'd say.

Pearce - Seemed to try really hard, but couldn't shake Van Berlo. Again, not much support.

Westhoff - Didn't do mcuh at all, till moved to half back where he was starting to make a huge impact in the 3rd. Then suddenly moved back to the forward line and disappeared. Did OK in the ruck as well against a very very good ruckman. Perhaps he should be used as a ruckman more often, as he plays much better around the ground.

P Stewart - Took all his chances very well, tried hard as he always does. Our best on ground.

Broadbent - Had a few patches where he was getting into the game, but was otherwise unseen. Form seems to be dropping again. Workrate didn't seem there either.

Moore - Always a second behind the play. back to the sanfl for a few weeks. Don't know if he was on the ground much?

Lobbe - As badly thrashed as he was, I thought his efforts around the ground were quite good. I kept getting him mixed up with Jonas though. I think he has a future, a good one at that. Just needs experience and more strength.

Carlile - Didn't think he was that bad - but seems to switch off after his first effort, and then takes a second to react again. Probably didn't have an ideal matchup once the crows lost their two talls.

Jonas - Thought he was very good. Dealt with everything with no issues, just went about doing his job. Like the look of him, good size and reads the play well.

Logan - Did some good things, didn't make many big mistakes. I'd say he did what was expected of him.

Trengove - I know he's not a forward, but by god, no defender should be that bad at playing forward. Looked absolutely lost up there.

Young - Barely noticed him. Should have been subbed instead of Wingard, who was at least making a contest.

Surjan - Horrible first half. Improved and was ok in the second, but shocking first half. Worst game for him in a while.

Brett Ebert - Did ok given the delivery to him. At least he created a contest.

Wingard - Perhaps needs to go back to the SANFL. Has been threatening to have a break-out game for a while, but it never seems to happen. Perhaps a few games in the SANFL to get more experience would be good.

Jacobs - Didn't do much, personally I don't think he has what it takes at this stage. Should be thrown back to the SANFL and not brought back until he plays 5-6 games consistently well. I don't see the upside to his game.

Butcher - Not near the contest most of the time, doesn't seem to be on the same wavelength as the midfielders. Seems to be shot of confidence too, and perhaps carrying an injury. Not a shadow of the player from last year.

 

[Hartletts Heroes]

I think Ford nailed it perfectly when he said in another thread that one of the differences was the crows have ultimate faith in their gameplan and they know if they stick with it the result will go their way.
Probably the most disappointing thing was we couldn't match their work rate even when they lost 2 players... which players confidence in sound gameplan + high/good work rate = win.

 

[b0ydman]

We need a complete new medical program to catch up quickly.

Maybe borrow the one the WCE used over the 1990/91 presason and rocked up for the 1991 season as giants.

I'm spending enough time in The Clinic over at cycling news to know there's all sorts of programs

Sometimes I think we are being left behind by some of the comp's mids

Your thoughts on that and how far we should push it?

 

[b0ydman]

Everyone on this board should procreate heavily until each of us have three males minimum, and we force our boys to dedicate their lives to learning the craft of AFL football. Make sure they barrack for Port Adelaide, and play poorly in front of talent scouts and the like, so that Port are the only ones aware of their talent, and the only ones willing to draft them.

It'll take some time, but it's totally worth it.

i like

problem is, seeing how the bozo's we currently have down at Alberton develop them, would you do that to your kid?

actually let me re-ask that question. WHY would you do that to them?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I'm spending enough time in The Clinic over at cycling news to know there's all sorts of programs

Sometimes I think we are being left behind by some of the comp's mids

Your thoughts on that and how far we should push it?

Sometimes I think we should go over the edge other times say that we have to go right up to the edge because the long term consequences if we go over the edge and are caught it isn't worth it.

But I think we have a naive "medical program" and are behind many clubs who are right up against the edge or maybe over it. Our mate blackcat wrote some interesting stuff a couple of weeks ago on The Black Diamond Corner thread about the new charges against Lance Armstrong. Read from post #10 onwards. It does make you think.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/say-it-isnt-so-lance.956524/

I wrote the following in Septemer last year in the thread about Falloon - what's he doing? (post #119) and still stick to it. This is what I mean about naive.....

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/falloon-whats-he-doing.810038/page-5#post-22110849

We have to find the best legal drugs and fast track some of our guys. We need a decent "medical programme" that I'm sure other clubs use. Don't be naive it happens all over the place. The Australian Olympic squad in particular..

From Robin Parisotto's book Blood Sports - The inside dope on drugs in sports.

Parisotto was the bloke at the AIS who help discovered the ON and OFF model to test for EPO before the Sydney Olympics. The ON model was adopted for the Sydney Olympics because it was a urine test. The OFF model which is a blood test, wasn't, but in 2001 many international federations adopted it as did the IOC by 2004. Post Sydney both ON and OFF model are blood tests - no more urine tests. Lance Armstrong 1999 TDF's urine samples was retested in 2005 using the ON model - six of his samples and they all were found to have EPO in them. Armstrongs defence - the age of the test samples were degraded and therefor the urine tests were faulty - despite crimes being solved using blood, tissue etc that are decades old.

From pages 231 and 232

... Some medicos have contributed to the current doping situation by inadvertently opening up an avenue for cheats. Perhaps the best example is the dubious registration of athletes as 'asthmatics', which allows the use of a range of otherwise-banned drugs to improve oxygen in the lungs. Because the treatment is supposedly not adding to, but only restoring performance levels, it is not regarded as doping.

In the Australian Olympic teams there has been an increase in registration of asthmatics from 9.7 per cent of the team in 1976 to 20.6 per cent in 2000. The rate of asthma in the general community ranges between five percent and ten per cent.

Overall there were 607 athletes registered as asthmatics at the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games up from the 383 at Atlanta. Of the 607 asthmatics at Sydney, 128 or 21 per cent were Australians.

Why does Australia seem to have a disproportionate amount of registered asthmatics? Interestingly only 45 of the 607 registered asthmatics in Sydney came from Asia, Africa, Central and South America, Russia, Japan and China.

The sports most implicated were triathlon, cycling and swimming and the highest notifications came from the Netherlands, where one in every three athletes were receiving some concoction for treatment of asthma.

Based on these figures, it could be argued if you are not as asthmatic your chances of competing at the Olympics is pretty slim!

The question is - are our medical staff going down that avenue?? Are the other clubs??

 

[bomberclifford]

Anyone know what the official crowd figure was?

 

[Macca19]

34 and change

 

[aneale]

The question is - are our medical staff going down that avenue?? Are the other clubs??

Australia as a whole has a higher incidence of asthma than a lot of countries, particularly Asia. Our infatuation with carpet not helping the situation. There is hardly anything new there.

I reckon half the kids I played footy with had a ventolin inhaler in their sock. As a severe asthmatic myself, me and a good proportion of my team mates got into sport on doctors advice, and both my brother and I were pushed into swimming to increase lung capacity. So, it's no wonder there are so many swimmers registered. It's always appeared that the Australian way to deal with it was to go into sport.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Australia as a whole has a higher incidence of asthma than a lot of countries, particularly Asia. Our infatuation with carpet not helping the situation. There is hardly anything new there.

I reckon half the kids I played footy with had a ventolin inhaler in their sock. As a severe asthmatic myself, me and a good proportion of my team mates got into sport on doctors advice, and both my brother and I were pushed into swimming to increase lung capacity. So, it's no wonder there are so many swimmers registered. It's always appeared that the Australian way to deal with it was to go into sport.

Yes we have a higher rate than other countries but not that much worse than most western nations.

I played sports with or went to school with very few asthmatics, we are talking mainly 70's and 80's ( and early 90's) but I do notice in young kids from teens to late 20's age group that their seems to be a higher incidence of asthma than I experienced. Is that better diagnosis? Is it that give them a pill to fix up any doubts type modern diagnosis? Have our enviromental conditions got that much worse?

Whatever the answer is the numbers at elite Olympic level is way out of whack with the general public. It doesn't make sense. Ok so we have a higher level of asthmatics, we push them into sport but we push all kids into sports and then we have 3 or 4 times the percentage of elite level Olympic sports men and women who are asthmatics compared to the general public percentage. As Parisotto questioned - it could be argued if you are not as asthmatic your chances of competing at the Olympics is pretty slim!

What percentage of AFL footballers are asthmatics? Why did asthmatics as a % of the Olympic team double in 24 years? One can argue sports participation in the 1960's and 1970's in the lead up to Montreal was a lot higher than the 1990's lead up to Sydney. Like Parisotto I have large doubts about why that doubling has occured.

 

[tribey]

Yep I called for Ayres to be appointed our backlines coach at the end of last season. He took Port Melbourne to 18-0 + 3-0 in the finals. They won the first 7 or 8 games this year before losing and were sitting 10-2 before this weekend. They don't any affiliation with Vic AFL clubs, develop their own players as well as recruit them.

Get him to the club in October in any one of 3 or 4 capacities, back lines coach, mids coach, footy ops manager - with a no bullshit attitude, or Primus' mentor - the one we have been look for. Now is the time to start setting this up, not September or October.

I would bring him in next year as Primus' mentor and if we have a shit 2013 we have a ready made coach, sitting there who knows where all the skeltons are and knows who needs to be cut and who can stay, how the club works, what resources we have or don't have - ie don't waste 12 months feeling their way.

Its time Port got someone in from the Hawthorn network rather than the otherway round. Use all of Ayres contact in Melbourne to help get better people to the club.

I've actually had him down as my (realistic) preferred senior coach for awhile now. I've said my piece numerous times on the virtues of hiring him so I won't rehash here, but if we seriously want to get Port Adelaide back to being Port Adelaide again, playing hard, full metal jacket football, where noodle-armed weak-willed one-effort football is a sackable offence rather than merely a checkpoint to getting your name on the locker, we could do far far worse.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

We need a complete new medical program to catch up quickly.

Maybe borrow the one the WCE used over the 1990/91 presason and rocked up for the 1991 season as giants.

The program the Eags are on now is impressive. Worsfold the chemist might have some ideas. He was around back in the 90s too. Maybe Darryl Wakelin could advise us on medical advances.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

All I can remember, is being ridiculously drunk and having a brilliant night in Bay 118.

The result, was depressing, disappointing, and sadly one that we have almost come to expect.

What we are seeing at the moment is not Port Adelaide. It is disgusting, and changes must be made at the club.

Matthew Primus is not the man to do it. He has no idea.