Race in football

[Tar]

Originally posted by funky_monk


Are you suggesting the black Zimbabwians aren't good enough to be productive?

Yes. Why do you think their is mass starvation there? Fool.

 

[Tangodown]

If only we could go back to the old days.....

Footy on a Saturday....VFL on a Sunday......

The bloke next door was named Smith and the guy over the road was named Brown.....

 

[Jabso]

Originally posted by Tar
Hi All.

I'm sick of racial considerations coming into football. Why should Aboriginal's get more considerations than other races in AFL just because they do in real life?

I mean, they don't have racial mediations when Italians and Greeks get called "dumb wogs" or somthing. They also dont dedicate games to Italians or Greeks or Australians like they do with Aboriginals (recent game at Bribery Stadium)

Any Thoughts?

Although the one thing I hate almost more than anything is patronizing. I think you are way off-line.

 

[CharlieG]

I was born in 1986. If I'm responsible for things that happened in the '70s and earlier, then all Germans are guilty of war crimes, all the French are responsible for crimes committed by Napolean, and all Muslims are responsible for crimes committed against the Spaniards of the 12th century.

I repeat, and now I'll add funky_monk, those posts will be deleted and an apology posted before 6pm tomorrow, or I'll report both posts to a moderator. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO ACCUSE PEOPLE OF HATE CRIMES!

 

[Sydneyfan]

Originally posted by CharlieG
I'm sick to death of equality being a swinging pendulum. It's either in the middle, and all Australians are the same, or it's racism. At the moment it's very much against Australians of Anglo-Saxon descent.

I can understand your comment but in response I'll add this reply ...

My Mum told me a story a few years back when she went to some church conference and met a lady there and starting chatting. This lady was a law-abiding, religious, upstarting member of society who was university educated, had a good job and was well dressed yet she said how there wasn't a day which went by in which she was not discriminated against ... be it cabs which refused to pick up her as she flagged them by, regularly being overlooked in a queue whilst waiting to buy something despite being there before others, having others stare or look down at her as she walked by.

Why may you say this occured?

It occured purely and simply because this woman was Aboriginal.

Australia has come a long way in the last 40 years but the fact still remains that when it comes to Indigenous - Non-Indigenous Australian relations there is still a long way to go and unfortunately underlying and blatant racism directed to towards Indigenous Australians still occurs. Racism is ugly because racist people don't care about you, they just care about your colour. This lady (a law-abiding, caring, productive member of society) would have experienced none of this discrimination if she was of Anglo-Celtic descent.

Imagine growing up, having to deal with prejudice and discrimination thrown at you everyday by people who do not know you or care.

At face value it may seem that some members of society are given a better deal than others when it comes to benefits, and you may think to yourself isn't this preferential treatment or indeed racism? But when you examine the issues as to why some members of society (in this case, Aboriginals) are getting benefits that others may not be receiving, you can see that it's justified in order to re-dress the detrimental experiences that the disadvantaged or maligned members of society experience on a daily basis.

The average Aboriginal lives 20 years less than the average non-Aboriginal Australian, Aboriginal Australians contract diabetes at rates several times higher than non-Aboriginal Australians.

Reality is that Anglo-Saxon Australians experience far fewer barriers in gaining an education and eventually job ... schools are culturally geared towards Anglo-Australians and Anglo-Saxon Australians are not discriminated against at anywhere near the degree in which Indigenous Australians often are.

 

[Tangodown]

Sydneyfan

Please tell me why my son receives less Austudy than ABSTUDY......????? Its around 60 bucks a fortnight difference...

Payments based on skin color when I know for a fact the kid over the road who is Aboriginal (who is a nice kid) has 2 working parents and are good people??? We have them over for bbq's occasionally.......

Why should my son get less ??????????

 

[Anke]

Originally posted by Joel
Don't generalise, it is dumb.

as are Collingwood supporters.....so Kenny was right

 

[Anke]

Originally posted by OldLion
The crowd is pleasant - not like in the 80's when you'd be constantly offended by comments , even from your own supporters

Agree, although the AFL still has a lot of work to do with the majority of Collingwood supporters. I used to sit near the Collingwood cheersquad each game and was so outraged with what I heard each week that I no longer attend games.

 

[Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk]

Originally posted by Tar
Why should Aboriginal's get more considerations than other races in AFL just because they do in real life?

I don't really get why they get special considerations in real life. Like when i went to centrelink the first thing they always ask u is..."u do not have to answer this question if you do not wish to...are you of aboriginal decent or a torres straight islander" It's got me beat why someone wouldn't want to answer such a thing, are the aboriginal people really THAT sensitive? Is the reason they get special assistance because they have trouble finding employment? Because if it is I would have thought that these days places aren't allowed to discriminate or determine an employee on their race.

 

[Sydneyfan]

Originally posted by Tangodown
Sydneyfan

Please tell me why my son receives less Austudy than ABSTUDY......????? Its around 60 bucks a fortnight difference...

Payments based on skin color when I know for a fact the kid over the road who is Aboriginal (who is a nice kid) has 2 working parents and are good people??? We have them over for bbq's occasionally.......

Why should my son get less ??????????

I agree that Abstudy should be means-tested just as Austudy is.

I understand why Abstudy is universially available for Aboriginal students regardless of financial support/background, for reasons such as promoting more Aboriginal students to further their studies and employment opportunities.

I have no concrete answer as to why Abstudy payments are higher than Austudy other than encouraging more Aboriginal students to further their studies, employment opportunities to enable them to gain higher levels of representation in employment / decision making in society.

But considering, an unfortunate reality that Aborigines generally are more likely to experience discrimination in their daily live and as a result be more likely to have difficulty in gaining employment, I presume the Government believes that the 60 bucks difference is adequate compensation.

 

[Sydneyfan]

Originally posted by Tar


You have no idea what you're talking about? How old are you out of interest are you still at school? because you arn't thinking rationally, more like a child. The above is utterly incorrect. Despite the fact that the UN has no credibility they never said what you claim. Fool.

To the contrary, funky_monk's posts seem thoughtful, considered and accurate as opposed to yours.

Judging by your posts, you seem to be either ill-informed, prejudiced, bigoted and racist; or merely trolling for reaction.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you're a troll.

 

[funky_monk]

Originally posted by Tar


Slavery? Are you ignorant? Abos were behing rejected by their parents because they were halfcasts, whites came to the rescue in the 1950s and 60s and on. They should thank us. Ungreatful pigs.



Yeah they can get up off their arses and stop blaming whites for their problems. And stop infesting our trainstations.



You have no idea what you're talking about? How old are you out of interest are you still at school? because you arn't thinking rationally, more like a child. The above is utterly incorrect. Despite the fact that the UN has no credibility they never said what you claim. Fool.

Mother****er! May you burn in hell for your hate!!!!!!!!!

How old am I? Many years of uni study in both aboriginal studies and psychology as well as years of volunteer community service trying to undo the HATE people like you spread. All I said come from facts not HATE!

If you walk into the WA Museum you will see the details on my statement about the UN's definition of genocide and what Australia did. I can give you a few Lecturers names at Curtin Uni to back up my slavery claim too. ****er!

Ungreatful pigs!!!!!!? Luckily I believe in karma and YOU WILL GET YOURS! FOOL!

 

[Mr_Ed]

Originally posted by funky_monk



Mother****er! May you burn in hell for your hate!!!!!!!!!

How old am I? Many years of uni study in both aboriginal studies and psychology as well as years of volunteer community service trying to undo the HATE people like you spread. All I said come from facts not HATE!

If you walk into the WA Museum you will see the details on my statement about the UN's definition of genocide and what Australia did. I can give you a few Lecturers names at Curtin Uni to back up my slavery claim too. ****er!

Ungreatful pigs!!!!!!? Luckily I believe in karma and YOU WILL GET YOURS! FOOL!

Uni? WA Museum? Oh god.... we have a uni hippy.... gunna burn any flags are we? going to any abortion rallies or do some tree hugging? People like you make me sick.... You want me to say sorry to the aboriginals? Here's my sorry.

(deleted)

 

[Tar]

Originally posted by funky_monk



Mother****er! May you burn in hell for your hate!!!!!!!!!

How old am I? Many years of uni study in both aboriginal studies and psychology as well as years of volunteer community service trying to undo the HATE people like you spread. All I said come from facts not HATE!

If you walk into the WA Museum you will see the details on my statement about the UN's definition of genocide and what Australia did. I can give you a few Lecturers names at Curtin Uni to back up my slavery claim too. ****er!

Ungreatful pigs!!!!!!? Luckily I believe in karma and YOU WILL GET YOURS! FOOL!

So you did Aboriginal studies? That means you were a member of the arts faculty. I would be correct in saying that most of earth's morons graduated with an arts degree(with honors?). Eg, you were brainwashed for 3 years. Don't bother giving me lecturers names. Lecturers from a worthless humanities department have no credibility, they are biased and anti-Australian. The best thing you can do is forget the lies you were taught at Curtin.

I couldn't give a rats arse what the UN says, which I doubt it says it nevertheless. The UN has no credibility it should be disbanded.

Every word you said is still incorrect. Why did you go to Curtin, your TEE score wasn't good enough to go to UWA?

Let me guess you were a member of resistance and you handed out 'green left weekly'?

 

[jim boy]

Originally posted by Sydneyfan

Judging by your posts (Tar), you seem to be either ill-informed, prejudiced, bigoted and racist; or merely trolling for reaction.

Troll

 

[Mead]

/me feels thankful he's only a 'vote for john howard' sorta rightwing nut, rather than a 'send them to concentration camps' sort of rightwing nut.

Seriously, I can't wander around trying to feel superior on this issue, because frankly, I guess I'm racist- we all are to certain extent.
Objectively, I know the idea of categorising someone by race is idiotic, but with only one exception, every incident of crime i've experienced in my life was perpetrated by a person who happened to be of aboriginal descent. And that isn't a anomaly, that's just statistical likelihood. For the entire time I was at secondary school I'd be taking the train home late at night, ditto the last two years of uni, and its pretty damn scary. You *constantly* get asked for change, abused, attacked, etc etc by aboriginal youths of varying ages- last year a good friend of mine took a knife in his stomach because he wouldn't give someone a dollar, and a couple of weeks ago, a charming young lad took a dump on a train seat a few rows in front of me. Now, doubtless its a case of a few bad apples, and no doubt you can mount some flimsyargument along the lines of economic/social marginalisation being the cause of it, etc etc etc, but is it any wonder people are racist when the only exposure they have to indigenous people is in such an incredibly negative context?? You might claim to be perfectly free of prejudice, but try sitting at Oats Street station at 10pm, and I bet you'll feel as nervous as hell if some aborigines plump down next to you, BA lefty or not.
Anyway, having waded through all of that, my point? Well, what I was saying originally about AFL is it is an incredibly positive thing because it provides the general public with a different image of aboriginal people/culture and a positive context. I'll wager dollars to doughnuts that Andrew Mcleod has done infinitely more for race relations in South Australia than any amount of mealy mouthed ATSIC yammering- which is why racial vilification should be stomped on so hard in the AFL- it provides one of the few areas where white and black are on even terms, and it isn't about what color you are, its about what color you wear. Racist slurs are absolutely disgusting, and should be stepped on hard for that reason- it spoils one of the really cool things about footy- that race isn't an issue

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Originally posted by Mead
Well, what I was saying originally about AFL is it is an incredibly positive thing because it provides the general public with a different image of aboriginal people/culture and a positive context. I'll wager dollars to doughnuts that Andrew Mcleod has done infinitely more for race relations in South Australia than any amount of mealy mouthed ATSIC yammering- which is why racial vilification should be stomped on so hard in the AFL- it provides one of the few areas where white and black are on even terms, and it isn't about what color you are, its about what color you wear. Racist slurs are absolutely disgusting, and should be stepped on hard for that reason- it spoils one of the really cool things about footy- that race isn't an issue

Excellent post. Plus players like McLeod provide a fantastic role model for Aboriginal kids. Leon Davis does the rounds in Victorian schools teaching kids of all races about Aboriginal culture. Aboriginal players are now proud of their race-Chance Bateman has stated he would like to be the first Aboriginal player to play 50 games at Hawthorn and has committed himself to the club. This wouldn't have happened 30 years ago.

Hopefully some of the kids who are at risk of becoming 'bad apples' follow the example of these players and turn away from a life of crime, alcoholism, drugs etc. In this way, Aboriginal footballers can have a positive effect on society.

 

[Tar]

Originally posted by Mead
/me feels thankful he's only a 'vote for john howard' sorta rightwing nut, rather than a 'send them to concentration camps' sort of rightwing nut.

Seriously, I can't wander around trying to feel superior on this issue, because frankly, I guess I'm racist- we all are to certain extent.
Objectively, I know the idea of categorising someone by race is idiotic, but with only one exception, every incident of crime i've experienced in my life was perpetrated by a person who happened to be of aboriginal descent. And that isn't a anomaly, that's just statistical likelihood. For the entire time I was at secondary school I'd be taking the train home late at night, ditto the last two years of uni, and its pretty damn scary. You *constantly* get asked for change, abused, attacked, etc etc by aboriginal youths of varying ages- last year a good friend of mine took a knife in his stomach because he wouldn't give someone a dollar, and a couple of weeks ago, a charming young lad took a dump on a train seat a few rows in front of me. Now, doubtless its a case of a few bad apples, and no doubt you can mount some flimsyargument along the lines of economic/social marginalisation being the cause of it, etc etc etc, but is it any wonder people are racist when the only exposure they have to indigenous people is in such an incredibly negative context?? You might claim to be perfectly free of prejudice, but try sitting at Oats Street station at 10pm, and I bet you'll feel as nervous as hell if some aborigines plump down next to you, BA lefty or not.
Anyway, having waded through all of that, my point? Well, what I was saying originally about AFL is it is an incredibly positive thing because it provides the general public with a different image of aboriginal people/culture and a positive context. I'll wager dollars to doughnuts that Andrew Mcleod has done infinitely more for race relations in South Australia than any amount of mealy mouthed ATSIC yammering- which is why racial vilification should be stomped on so hard in the AFL- it provides one of the few areas where white and black are on even terms, and it isn't about what color you are, its about what color you wear. Racist slurs are absolutely disgusting, and should be stepped on hard for that reason- it spoils one of the really cool things about footy- that race isn't an issue

That's the problem with the doogooders like BA students, they've probably never been to the trainstation at night to see what Abos are really like.

If abos are equal in football why is it that the AFL doesn't treat them equally in that it goes at the way to seem pro-abo and does everything for them? Seems to be a contradiction. I think special favors promotes racism, just like extra salary cap promotes hatred towards Sydney and Brisbane.

 

[Dogwatcher]

I hear the bell around the neck of a sacred cow ringing!

By the way, I love it when I'm playing against a person of indigenous descent and I get called a white **** and the umpire just shakes his head as if to say “not much I can do about that”.
Not all indigenous players use that phrase, but some do - just like not all anglo-saxons use the same term. However, I use it (not that I would) and I get reported by the umpire and my name gets muddied in local circles, while an indigenous person does it and nothing is said. Whoever, started this thread had a point and it's great that it has been discussed.
However, let's remember perspective - my entire race, whatever that is, hasn't been almost wiped out.
There's no right answer so we shouldn't pretend there is.

 

[funky_monk]

Originally posted by Tar


So you did Aboriginal studies? That means you were a member of the arts faculty. I would be correct in saying that most of earth's morons graduated with an arts degree(with honors?). Eg, you were brainwashed for 3 years. Don't bother giving me lecturers names. Lecturers from a worthless humanities department have no credibility, they are biased and anti-Australian. The best thing you can do is forget the lies you were taught at Curtin.

I couldn't give a rats arse what the UN says, which I doubt it says it nevertheless. The UN has no credibility it should be disbanded.

Every word you said is still incorrect. Why did you go to Curtin, your TEE score wasn't good enough to go to UWA?

Let me guess you were a member of resistance and you handed out 'green left weekly'?

Science degree actually.

Curtin is the most capitalist uni in WA. Hardly 'green left weekly' territory.

Could easily make a crack at UWA here but won't. Either going or not going to any uni means nothing anyway. People who think their better than anyone else because they went to uni are delluded.

Any more broad, wide sweeping generalisations you want to make to make yourself look like more of a bigot? Ooops too late!

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


I know this is off the point but, the AFLs gotta be concerned about the rising % of kids drafted from private schools, i dont know the specific % but it is quite high.

It would seem to me that if this continues public school kids wont bother to play footy as they will realise they have no hope of being drafted and the grass roots will whither more, the AFL should address this somehow.

How many of these Private school kids being drafted are at their school on a sporting scholarship?
ie they are at a private school because they are outstanding athletes/footballers to begin with.

 

[funky_monk]

Originally posted by Mr_Ed


Uni? WA Museum? Oh god.... we have a uni hippy.... gunna burn any flags are we? going to any abortion rallies or do some tree hugging? People like you make me sick.... You want me to say sorry to the aboriginals? Here's my sorry.

From your avatars it is obvious that you enjoy other peoples pain so there really isn't anything more to say to you anyway.

Go pull the wings of ladybirds or something.

 

[OldLion]

Originally posted by Mead
....no doubt you can mount some flimsy argument along the lines of economic/social marginalisation being the cause of it, etc etc etc, but is it any wonder people are racist when the only exposure they have to indigenous people is in such an incredibly negative context?? You might claim to be perfectly free of prejudice, but try sitting at Oats Street station at 10pm, and I bet you'll feel as nervous as hell if some aborigines plump down next to you, BA lefty or not.

Ever taken the last train to Broadmeadows ? ... or the NY subway ? Nervous is a normal condition .. who wants fear in their lives. I would suggest that it's not especially confined to a race .. little old ladies get scared all the time by 'the young people today'. If we were having this debate 50 years ago it would be about the Irish - layabouts, drunks etc. So the marginalisation is not 'flimsy' - that's the reality. Ever tried telling an addict to 'pull yourself together" ? Life ain't that easy.

Racist slurs are absolutely disgusting, and should be stepped on hard for that reason- it spoils one of the really cool things about footy- that race isn't an issue

This is the point of this topic which inevitably has smoked out the hate-filled and bitter. But remember what had to happen BEFORE this became an issue - players suffered and were marginalised .. I think the phrase gone walkabout was used ... and it took real courage by a few. If you had gone to the footy 20 years ago ( I assume you didn't ), you'd have been shocked. Racists trying to be 'funny' - just a joke, mate. Now it's great !

BTW - look at the camaraderie with the Aboriginal players. Being a Lions fans, I've seen Darryl White and Chris Johnson at the end of the game - always encouraging any aboriginal players in the opposition. Sensational.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by funky_monk


People who think their better than anyone else because they went to uni are delluded.

Agreed. Also agreed that people who think they are better or smarter because they went to UWA rather than Curtin are delluded as well. And also agree in that previous post that most uni lecturers have little credibility.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Falchoon


How many of these Private school kids being drafted are at their school on a sporting scholarship?
ie they are at a private school because they are outstanding athletes/footballers to begin with.

A few of them. I know that Claremont paid for Chris Lewis to go to a local private school so he would be in their zone. Not exactly a sporting scholarship, but there were others at this particular school who were on scholarships.