Scandal Racist fan throws banana at Eddie Betts

[TheReturnofDS]

The one thing I can't quite fathom in all of this is the idea that thousands upon thousands of people loudly expressing their hatred for a single person week after week FOR YEARS is ok because "it's not really racism" or "only some of us were racists".

FFS the problem with racism is the irrational and unrelenting hatred that it describes.

The booing of Goodes wasn't just for a short period in response to various indiscretions. It went on and on, every possession, match after match, year after year.

10s of thousands of people spitting their venom at one man. Not an act. A person.

With the pathetic, childish justifications. "I didn't like the way he staged" 5 ******* years ago. "I didn't like the way he slid". Twice. Years ago. "I didn't like his divisive AOTY speech". Read it. It wasn't divisive. And grow the **** up whilst you're at it.

Even if the booing wasn't racist, and it was, it was still mob hate directed at a single man whose "crimes" didn't go close to justifying such hate and was merely going about his craft and his life the best way he knew how.

So if you were one of those booing, and want to deny you were being racist, well fine. Just know this. You were the person in the crowd who participated in mob hate. Who had neither the intellect nor the moral fibre to go a different way. History is littered with examples of mob hate. You're one of those.

Years?
Are you a bit slow?
It happened for a few games.

Most of the reason it continued is because everyone knew it was getting to him.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

But I hated him before it was trendy to do so....

So you were a mob leader......congratulations to you! You must be bursting with pride.

 

[yeahmate]

So you were a mob leader......congratulations to you! You must be bursting with pride.

haha, yeah I'm sure my sledges from the outer were greatly influential. Maybe I should go into politics...

 

[gavaniacono]

Those aren't worthy.

Obviously unworthy of a reply.

"Stop Railroading People!"

People reveal themselves.

 

[barmy44]

FFS the problem with racism is the irrational and unrelenting hatred that it describes.

i hope this can be my last post on this issue, and the many sub-issues it leads into, again outlining the disclaimer that: im not accusing anyone who has said that of being a 'racist' - just outlining my view that the real problem with racism is the less explicit, ingrained systemic racism, not the overt individual acts of public hatred and shaming.

so on your point above (and im not trying to butt heads with you at all, just expand), and in my opinion alone but based on a fair amount of reading into the issue, the problem with racism is far more insidious than this. i write the next bit without trying to shift things into an 'us good guys vs them bad guys' thing, because (ive made my point on this a few times ITT) it is very possible to 'do something racist/sexist' without being one of those evil and hate filled 'full time racists/sexists'. if you do, acknowledge it, understand why it came across that way to the victim even if it wasnt your intent, apologise and move on. the problem is solved.

'hey mate, i found that comment a bit racist'. 'did you? sorry man, i can see that. i take it back'. getting on the defensive ['what?! im not racist, im the most anti-racist person i know!') solves nothing, and could be the ol' white fragility [our insulation from racial issues as 'whites' leading to an over the top defensive mechanism, essentially - http://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/view/249].

'racism' (which is an extremely nebulous concept) is not just a problem due to irrational and unrelenting hatred. there are very 'good people' who also hold racial prejudices, and often hold friendships with members of the very group they are prejudiced against.

i know someone very well, who holds some pretty harsh opinions on indigenous australians. 'the most privileged people in our society these days', yet '98% are wastes of space'. paraphrased of course, but very close to the wording used on one occasion i recall after challenging david bowies statement that 80s australia was as racist as apartheid south africa.

yet this person not only has at least 2 indigenous australian friends that i know of, and is on almost every measure a 'nice and good person'. and they are. their insistence on pigeon-holing an entire group ('98% of ...') while insisting on being judged individually themselves ('you cant label me that!') is a telling part of the problem.

yet if you asked them if they were 'racist', they would argue they arent until their last breath. its why the (paraphrased) response 'of yeah, im racist am i? ask me aboriginal friends' doesnt always pass muster.

people with racial prejudices are very poor at self-diagnosing, because often those racial prejudices don't take the form of rabid and public hate and explicit racial abuse.

there seems to be a thinking that if we can stop the rather rare explicit public outburst, 'racism' has been defeated. but those public acts are just the tip of a very large iceberg.

there is indeed a huge way to go, and no one is immune from the occasional slip up, especially unintended ones. you can 'do something a bit racist' without being a hate filled white supremacist skinhead, and you can 'do something a bit racist' without any express intent. but this is just on the individual level, and while a problem, the institutionalised and ingrained systemic racism of many societies is a far greater evil, and something that, much like fish would struggle to understand the concept of 'water', 'whites' struggle to properly grasp as we are rarely confronted with the issue, living our whole lives as the 'societal normal'.

so my final point would be that these online discussions are a very imperfect vehicle to discuss these issues. it turns into, as online arguments tend to do, 'trench warfare' where each side of the issue retreat to the extremes and try and paint the other as the 'lunatic fringe'.

we all have a way to go, and none of us 'whites' can claim immunity from the issue of systemic racism in our society. blunt categorisation of people into - 'racist' and 'not racist'; 'righteous' vs 'ignorant' - ignores so much nuance, and merely serves to dissolve the conversation into accusation and defensiveness.

 

[Ron The Bear]

so on your point above (and im not trying to butt heads with you at all, just expand), and in my opinion alone but based on a fair amount of reading into the issue, the problem with racism is far more insidious than this. i write the next bit without trying to shift things into an 'us good guys vs them bad guys' thing, because (ive made my point on this a few times ITT) it is very possible to 'do something racist/sexist' without being one of those evil and hate filled 'full time racists/sexists'. if you do, acknowledge it, understand why it came across that way to the victim even if it wasnt your intent, apologise and move on. the problem is solved.
...
there seems to be a thinking that if we can stop the rather rare explicit public outburst, 'racism' has been defeated. but those public acts are just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Which is pretty much the line dave 123 was arguing, without much success.

we all have a way to go, and none of us 'whites' can claim immunity from the issue of systemic racism in our society. blunt categorization of people into - 'racist' and 'not racist'; 'righteous' vs 'ignorant' - ignores so much nuance, and merely serves to dissolve the conversation into accusation and defensiveness.

You get a like for this bit.

Using a sledgehammer forces the problem underground. Intimidating people by holding them up to ridicule only creates the illusion of 'problem solved'; people then avoid certain behaviours out of fear. It's a cosmetic solution.

 

[hawkgal02]

The one thing I can't quite fathom in all of this is the idea that thousands upon thousands of people loudly expressing their hatred for a single person week after week FOR YEARS is ok because "it's not really racism" or "only some of us were racists".

FFS the problem with racism is the irrational and unrelenting hatred that it describes.

The booing of Goodes wasn't just for a short period in response to various indiscretions. It went on and on, every possession, match after match, year after year.

10s of thousands of people spitting their venom at one man. Not an act. A person.

With the pathetic, childish justifications. "I didn't like the way he staged" 5 ******* years ago. "I didn't like the way he slid". Twice. Years ago. "I didn't like his divisive AOTY speech". Read it. It wasn't divisive. And grow the **** up whilst you're at it.

Even if the booing wasn't racist, and it was, it was still mob hate directed at a single man whose "crimes" didn't go close to justifying such hate and was merely going about his craft and his life the best way he knew how.

So if you were one of those booing, and want to deny you were being racist, well fine. Just know this. You were the person in the crowd who participated in mob hate. Who had neither the intellect nor the moral fibre to go a different way. History is littered with examples of mob hate. You're one of those.

Not sure what this has to do with anything.
Why whenever something bad happens in Australian sport we have to compare it to or bring up Adam Goodes?
If you want to sit on your high horse and claim that you're an amazing and inclusive person because you didn't boo a a player from your own team, then good luck with that and i hope you feel proud.
Get over Adam Goodes, move on.

And why is this thread still going? What she did was horrible but she's been punished and humiliated what more do you want?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

i hope this can be my last post on this issue, and the many sub-issues it leads into, again outlining the disclaimer that: im not accusing anyone who has said that of being a 'racist' - just outlining my view that the real problem with racism is the less explicit, ingrained systemic racism, not the overt individual acts of public hatred and shaming.

so on your point above (and im not trying to butt heads with you at all, just expand), and in my opinion alone but based on a fair amount of reading into the issue, the problem with racism is far more insidious than this. i write the next bit without trying to shift things into an 'us good guys vs them bad guys' thing, because (ive made my point on this a few times ITT) it is very possible to 'do something racist/sexist' without being one of those evil and hate filled 'full time racists/sexists'. if you do, acknowledge it, understand why it came across that way to the victim even if it wasnt your intent, apologise and move on. the problem is solved.

'hey mate, i found that comment a bit racist'. 'did you? sorry man, i can see that. i take it back'. getting on the defensive ['what?! im not racist, im the most anti-racist person i know!') solves nothing, and could be the ol' white fragility [our insulation from racial issues as 'whites' leading to an over the top defensive mechanism, essentially - http://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/view/249].

'racism' (which is an extremely nebulous concept) is not just a problem due to irrational and unrelenting hatred. there are very 'good people' who also hold racial prejudices, and often hold friendships with members of the very group they are prejudiced against.

i know someone very well, who holds some pretty harsh opinions on indigenous australians. 'the most privileged people in our society these days', yet '98% are wastes of space'. paraphrased of course, but very close to the wording used on one occasion i recall after challenging david bowies statement that 80s australia was as racist as apartheid south africa.

yet this person not only has at least 2 indigenous australian friends that i know of, and is on almost every measure a 'nice and good person'. and they are. their insistence on pigeon-holing an entire group ('98% of ...') while insisting on being judged individually themselves ('you cant label me that!') is a telling part of the problem.

yet if you asked them if they were 'racist', they would argue they arent until their last breath. its why the (paraphrased) response 'of yeah, im racist am i? ask me aboriginal friends' doesnt always pass muster.

people with racial prejudices are very poor at self-diagnosing, because often those racial prejudices don't take the form of rabid and public hate and explicit racial abuse.

there seems to be a thinking that if we can stop the rather rare explicit public outburst, 'racism' has been defeated. but those public acts are just the tip of a very large iceberg.

there is indeed a huge way to go, and no one is immune from the occasional slip up, especially unintended ones. you can 'do something a bit racist' without being a hate filled white supremacist skinhead, and you can 'do something a bit racist' without any express intent. but this is just on the individual level, and while a problem, the institutionalised and ingrained systemic racism of many societies is a far greater evil, and something that, much like fish would struggle to understand the concept of 'water', 'whites' struggle to properly grasp as we are rarely confronted with the issue, living our whole lives as the 'societal normal'.

so my final point would be that these online discussions are a very imperfect vehicle to discuss these issues. it turns into, as online arguments tend to do, 'trench warfare' where each side of the issue retreat to the extremes and try and paint the other as the 'lunatic fringe'.

we all have a way to go, and none of us 'whites' can claim immunity from the issue of systemic racism in our society. blunt categorisation of people into - 'racist' and 'not racist'; 'righteous' vs 'ignorant' - ignores so much nuance, and merely serves to dissolve the conversation into accusation and defensiveness.

You are entirely correct. I should have written "the problem with racial hate".

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Not sure what this has to do with anything.
Why whenever something bad happens in Australian sport we have to compare it to or bring up Adam Goodes?
If you want to sit on your high horse and claim that you're an amazing and inclusive person because you didn't boo a a player from your own team, then good luck with that and i hope you feel proud.
Get over Adam Goodes, move on.

And why is this thread still going? What she did was horrible but she's been punished and humiliated what more do you want?

I didn't bring up Adam Goodes.

 

[Gough]

Mal X > Saint Paul.

Biko>Mal X

 

[JackOutback]

Yes but did Malcolm X contribute to a better society in the long run? Even with his extremist ways.

Did Adam?

Yes he did. Thanks to Goodes's stance, people were more educated about the racism behind calling a black man a monkey. Because of what happened to him, a lot of people were more aware of the everyday racism Aboriginal people still experience. As a result, the woman who threw a banana at Betts was called out immediately and Betts has been well supported after the incident. Goodes suffered unfairly for standing up for himself but thanks to him, others won't.

 

[hawkgal02]

I didn't bring up Adam Goodes.

You said "the booing of Goodes"
I do believe that is bringing him up

 

[TheReturnofDS]

Yes he did. Thanks to Goodes's stance, people were more educated about the racism behind calling a black man a monkey. Because of what happened to him, a lot of people were more aware of the everyday racism Aboriginal people still experience. As a result, the woman who threw a banana at Betts was called out immediately and Betts has been well supported after the incident. Goodes suffered unfairly for standing up for himself but thanks to him, others won't.

So you think without the Goodes incident, that people would've just let the Betts one slide?

Get off the wacky tobaccy mate.

Goodes has done things for indigenous culture and awareness.

Still absolutely pales in comparison to the impact Malcolm X had.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

You said "the booing of Goodes"
I do believe that is bringing him up

No. I was responding to those who sought to draw unfavourable comparisons between Goodes and Betts. I didn't bring Goodes up. Others did. Should I not respond?

 

[momentbymoment]

Yeah, nah. In that case why do they often start with "I'm not racist, but..."?

If you get past the misreporting and selective quoting, there isn't much to hate about the man. He got away with a few knee slides before it was outlawed, but apart from that he was a powerful, versatile player.

Unless you think that the history of aboriginal oppression has no bearing on today and should be swept under the carpet, and that the inequity between indigenous and non indigenous Australians isn't important, I can't see that Goodes said anything wrong - unless you only read the selective misrepresentations from the Murdoch press.

When the crowd booing happened, I can understand that some spectators just did it to put him off his game. Just like Dermott Brereton used to call Chris Lewis racist slurs (and regrets it). It was a form of collective bullying. And it ended up being indistinguishable from racism. If you don't like being called Racist, don't ally yourself with racists, because nobody (racists or not) can tell the difference.

You win the Internet of the week. Intelligent responses are rare when the holy right to boo is threatened in any way, but always appreciated

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

So you think without the Goodes incident, that people would've just let the Betts one slide?

Get off the wacky tobaccy mate.

Goodes has done things for indigenous culture and awareness.

Still absolutely pales in comparison to the impact Malcolm X had.

You probably need to do some research and then come back. On almost every contribution you have made over the last couple of pages you have displayed your ignorance.

 

[Clems Knee]

Powerful versatile player that used knees, elbows, slid in with his feet, squirrel gripped an opponent and got away with it and attempted to incite the crowd with a 'war dance' that they had no chance to reply to. Can you imagine the all blacks doing the haka to the crowd?

So what did Ryan Crowley do wrong? Why did he get booed by every opposing team?

Now you're trying to say I think the history should be swept under the rug, because I didn't like the behaviour of one particular person of that race.
Have a listen to yourself and wonder why people that arent racist are annoyed at being called racist, which is pretty much what you just did to me.

FWIW I didnt boo Goodes because I didnt want to be associated with some of the crowd that were doing it for the wrong reasons. Didn't stop you essentially calling me a racist in this post.

I'll say again, people that arent racists hate being called racists more than people who are.

I didn't (essentially or otherwise) call you a racist in my post, and I'm sorry and a little confused that you thought so.

The discussion was because I originally said that "Racists don't like to be called racists. It hurts their feelings."

You then said " non-racists hate being called racists even more than racists." Which is a bit of a duh statement.
You followed it up with the suggestion that Goodes had called non-racists racists, which is a justification of the hatred for him. I have disagreed with this in previous posts and disagree with it now.

I didn't say anything about what you were thinking, the you in my posts were a general you rather than directed at you. Read it again, and not as a personal attack this time. Of course, if the cap fits...

The bizarre thing to me is that racists find the term offensive, when they are very happy being so offensive to other people.

 

[DrEvil_]

blunt categorisation of people into - 'racist' and 'not racist'; 'righteous' vs 'ignorant' - ignores so much nuance, and merely serves to dissolve the conversation into accusation and defensiveness.

Nah, you are making this unnecessarily complicated, booing Goodes is the litmus test for racists. Some campaigner at Sydney Swans said so.

 

[Verdun]

Nah, you are making this unnecessarily complicated, booing Goodes is the litmus test for racists. Some campaigner at Sydney Swans said so.

oh so righteous - must make you feel proud; campaigner

 

[DrEvil_]

oh so righteous - must make you feel proud; campaigner

Damn right I'm righteous, I've got Pridham behind my back. Are you disagreeing with the litmus test?

 

[Verdun]

banter not slander oh righteous one


This forum is about a racist act

 

[DrEvil_]

banter not slander oh righteous one


This forum is about a racist act

Questioning The Test is a racist act, o ye of little faith.

 

[Xtreme]

The one thing I can't quite fathom in all of this is the idea that thousands upon thousands of people loudly expressing their hatred for a single person week after week FOR YEARS is ok because "it's not really racism" or "only some of us were racists".

FFS the problem with racism is the irrational and unrelenting hatred that it describes.

The booing of Goodes wasn't just for a short period in response to various indiscretions. It went on and on, every possession, match after match, year after year.

10s of thousands of people spitting their venom at one man. Not an act. A person.

With the pathetic, childish justifications. "I didn't like the way he staged" 5 ******* years ago. "I didn't like the way he slid". Twice. Years ago. "I didn't like his divisive AOTY speech". Read it. It wasn't divisive. And grow the **** up whilst you're at it.

Even if the booing wasn't racist, and it was, it was still mob hate directed at a single man whose "crimes" didn't go close to justifying such hate and was merely going about his craft and his life the best way he knew how.

So if you were one of those booing, and want to deny you were being racist, well fine. Just know this. You were the person in the crowd who participated in mob hate. Who had neither the intellect nor the moral fibre to go a different way. History is littered with examples of mob hate. You're one of those.

People have the right to cheer for who the want to cheer and boo who they want to boo. Football is a lot like pro wrestling, you've got your fan favourites and players you hate. People can't handle and accept the fact that that Number 37 of Sydney was hated by a section of fans because of his negative acts on the field resorting to thug acts while his genuine skill was diminishing because of age/injury (2007 - onward). He was no angel, the same reason why people can't stand Hodge or Lewis at Hawthorn. Lets lump those fans with the minority and call them racist too.............. .

 

[Verdun]

People have the right to cheer for who the want to cheer and boo who they want to boo. Football is a lot like pro wrestling, you've got your fan favourites and players you hate. People can't handle and accept the fact that that Number 37 of Sydney was hated by a section of fans because of his negative acts on the field resorting to thug acts while his genuine skill was diminishing because of age/injury (2007 - onward). He was no angel, the same reason why people can't stand Hodge or Lewis at Hawthorn. Lets lump those fans with the minority and call them racist too.............. .

Here we go again; people hate their actions held up to them and reflected to them

This forum is about a racist act - why does it keep going back to having a go at the person it is directed...Goodes did a lot of great stuff. Realise you do not care about the double standards

I know o

Yep racists hate being called racist; very precious, want to be racist without being called out- sad really. You can justify however you want but it says more about you than it does than Goodes

 

[DrEvil_]

People have the right to cheer for who the want to cheer and boo who they want to boo. Football is a lot like pro wrestling, you've got your fan favourites and players you hate. People can't handle and accept the fact that that Number 37 of Sydney was hated by a section of fans because of his negative acts on the field resorting to thug acts while his genuine skill was diminishing because of age/injury (2007 - onward). He was no angel, the same reason why people can't stand Hodge or Lewis at Hawthorn. Lets lump those fans with the minority and call them racist too.............. .

Look booing is OK, unless too many people boo. However, too many people booing is OK if you committed a dog act on the day. However if too many people boo every game after, it is then not OK. However too many people booing every week when you have not committed any dog acts can still be OK if you are Lindsay Thomas, just not Adam Goodes. Get it?