Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[Kangaroos4eva]

I find it amazing the intellectual hoops you will jump through to try and pretend systemic racism doesn't exist.

As I keep saying, CRT isn't personally directed at you.

I myself have enormous issues with CRT, largely because I come from a group that is white but has historically been marginalised and discriminated against just as much as POC.

And I've been to places (the Arab world, parts of Asia) where the local POC are just as vicious and racist to say Africans as any white person.

But to pretend systemic racism is/was not a defining characteristic of the Anglophone societies we live in is imply false.

Factually and historically wrong.

Claiming 2+2=5 wrong.

In the present moment, I do not think that a society that has so much affirmative action in favour of the marginalised is systematically racist against those very same people. There are a lot of problems, many of them race-based and economically-based legacy effects, many that are not. Fine if you disagree, but that's the logic.

Were Anglosphone societies systematically racist until very recently, hell yes. Are there legacy effects of that systemic racism, hell yes. Have I ever said they weren't systemically racist at one point, no. Are there are other non-race centric problems that are undermining marginalised people, yes.

You are jumping to a lot of assumptions about me. I am not saying race is an insignificant, or not present, factor, I just want to solve all the factors in order to solve the entire problem. Believe it or not, I have studied and academically written on more race-based genocides than most people ever have.

Why do you keep saying that? CRT barely affects me at any level and I am not losing any sleep over it; I just don't like racist ideologies, like you, that's it. Done.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Agree on all but the answer.

To take on power structures as strong and established as those you describe (which I agree with) requires solidarity, not individualism.

That said, I certainly agree in the libertarianism of the mind to break free of them.

But in terms of actions, it needs solidarity and communal action.

Otherwise those power structures just use the old divide and rule tactic

If you continue to go to "the state", then you're just going to end up with the same monster we have seen many times before.

When it gets to a certain point, the best intentions in the world are eventually decimated by collectivism, and it's virtually impossible to apply the handbrake to it once it gathers momentum.

 

[ferball]

Agree on all but the answer.

To take on power structures as strong and established as those you describe (which I agree with) requires solidarity, not individualism.

That said, I certainly agree in the libertarianism of the mind to break free of them.

But in terms of actions, it needs solidarity and communal action.

Otherwise those power structures just use the old divide and rule tactic

That's right.

The only form of power that's left is mass action. Exactly the sort of the Florida legislation and other ALEC sponsored garbage across the states is aimed at.

(Unless you are into breaking everything with anthrax, ebola and crispr. Ie by targeting the poor.)

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Why? White flight, no jobs left cos of globalisation and a massive over representation of black men in the private prison system (and graveyards) which is a form of modern day slavery.

Our views are not entirely dissimilar. Economic problems associated with globalisation, the decline of manufacturing and the use of cheap labour private prison systems are concerns I share.

 

[ferball]

Are there legacy effects of that systemic racism, hell yes. Have I ever said they weren't systemically racist at one point, no. Are there are other non-race centric problems that are undermining marginalised people, yes.

When people talk about systemic or institutional racism this is exactly what they are talking about.

Not the system still does it deliberately. Yes some people in the system may do that as well but when they talk about systemic racism they are talking about the legacy effects you are referring here.

Don't get ****ed over by semantics.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

How did Gary Webb shoot himself in the head twice when he committed suicide?

Magic...

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

When people talk about systemic or institutional racism this is exactly what they are talking about.

Not the system still does it deliberately. Yes some people in the system may do that as well but when they talk about systemic racism they are talking about the legacy effects you are referring here.

Don't get f’ed over by semantics.

I think that is what is lost a bit in semantic translation. As I remarked to Val Keating a while back, a lot of that legacy stuff set the starting position back and when combined with poor economic/social/property/law/justice/drug/political/etc policies, has largely resulted in what we have now. Identify the correct nuanced problems and apply the correct full treatment.

 

[ferball]

If you continue to go to "the state", then you're just going to end up with the same monster we have seen many times before.

When it gets to a certain point, the best intentions in the world are eventually decimated by collectivism, and it's virtually impossible to apply the handbrake to it once it gathers momentum.

Collectivism is the only thing that broke the power of kings and emperors.

Okay, nothing is perfect and no system based on collectivism will bring justice, but that applies to individualism too.

Libertarianism leads to war lords. There will always be someone who just wants power and takes advantage of a lack of institutions to build a private army and go around stealing everyone else's stuff.

Its the basis of modern history.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Collectivism is the only thing that broke the power of kings and emperors.

Okay, nothing is perfect and no system based on collectivism will bring justice, but that applies to individualism too.

Libertarianism leads to war lords. There will always be someone who just wants power and takes advantage of a lack of institutions to build a private army and go around stealing everyone else's stuff.

Its the basis of modern history.

Collectivism has its merits and deep-seated drawbacks, as does individualism. As you said, you need a balance of sorts, but nothing is perfect.

 

[Del191229]

Were Anglosphone societies systematically racist until very recently, hell yes.

You, you ... you're going to honestly suggest Australian society is not systemically racist right now?

When we're literally imposing different COVID standards on people coming from India than we did people coming from the UK and US, despite those countries having worse COVID rates?

Where Indigenous people are treated differently by the state, and for the worse, on every measure?

And you've said repeatedly you vehemently disagree with CRT because you are not racist personally etc.

You seem actually quite obsessed with it tbh.

 

[Del191229]

Collectivism is the only thing that broke the power of kings and emperors.

Okay, nothing is perfect and no system based on collectivism will bring justice, but that applies to individualism too.

Libertarianism leads to war lords. There will always be someone who just wants power and takes advantage of a lack of institutions to build a private army and go around stealing everyone else's stuff.

Its the basis of modern history.

Individual peasant asking the local Lord for better treatment - executed.

Peasant's Revolt of 1381 - changed the course of Western history forever.

 

[ferball]

I think that is what is lost a bit in semantic translation. As I remarked to Val Keating a while back, a lot of that legacy stuff set the starting position back and when combined with poor economic/social/property/law/justice/drug policies, has largely resulted in what we have now. Identify the correct nuanced problems and apply the correct full treatment.

There is alot of resistance to that and it leads to what some people see as blunt force responses. IE affirmative action and some of the worst stuff we see now with what people call "wokeness".

(But even the worst of that stuff isn't anywhere near as bad as the worst racism. Some of it does actually work.)

If you want to argue the pendulum has swung too far - there may be some merit in that in some situations, and okay its worth acknowledging them, but there isn't in plenty of other situations.

Remember a few pages back the debate about what happened at Parkdale?

Compare the amount of media time and energy that inspired to the reports of sexual harassment and assault of female stuydents at Wesley.

No war but class war?

 

[Val Keating]

At what point would a seriously anesthetized mouth tell the critter that this was a pointless exercise?

Would’ve been numb from head to toe

 

[Snake_Baker]

Would’ve been numb from head to toe

I dare say the digestive system would have been fried also.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

You, you ... you're going to honestly suggest Australian society is not systemically racist right now?

When we're literally imposing different COVID standards on people coming from India than we did people coming from the UK and US, despite those countries having worse COVID rates?

Where Indigenous people are treated differently by the state, and for the worse, on every measure?

And you've said repeatedly you vehemently disagree with CRT because you are not racist personally etc.

You seem actually quite obsessed with it tbh.

You are going to honestly suggest that contemporary Australian society is systematically racist right now?

You mean the sharp spike in COVID deaths and recent escalation in cases in India due to poor policy had nothing to do with it all...


No, for the billionth time as you seem to be having trouble. CRT is crap because its racist. Therefore, it should disgust everyone. Done. I don't like racists, SLF: OMG, why are you so personally obsessed.

If you cannot act like a respectable adult, then stop quoting my posts. Actually, just plain stop quoting me. It would do both of us a favour and save time.

 

[Val Keating]

I dare say the digestive system would have been fried also.

88 pounds of pure coke. 88 ****ing pounds

 

[Snake_Baker]

Statism is harder to overcome than any drug addiction.

 

[Snake_Baker]

88 pounds of pure coke. 88 ******* pounds

Base or salt?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Then take the lie of race out of the argument and bring the elevator down to the ground floor. It's fundamentally about those with power and those that are denied it via systematic strategies.

Focusing on race alone (or gender, religion, sexual proclivities, etc.) keeps the whole game moving along. ANYTHING to distract from the actual source.

British spawned race patriotism never went away, it's just been repackaged in a more sophisticated manner.

Universal libertarianism is the only answer.

Statism is harder to overcome than any drug addiction.

Do you believe complete universal libertarianism, or even a pure form of anarchism, is a viable model that would produce near-equal (can never get perfect) outcomes for everyone?

 

[Val Keating]

'Pablo EskoBear'


It’s a tourist attraction in Kentucky. God bless America

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

'Pablo EskoBear'
View attachment 1115801

It’s a tourist attraction in Kentucky. God bless America

That's quite morbid tbh.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Do you believe complete universal libertarianism, or even a pure form of anarchism, is a viable model that would produce near-equal (can never get perfect) outcomes for everyone?

No. Human nature will ultimately intervene, but that does not exclude anarchism from being a very useful engine to keep society on a better track.

As the brilliant saying goes, "I am not an anarchist because I see it as an ultimate solution, I am an anarchist because there are no ultimate solutions."

The statist path ultimately arrives at tyranny. Without exception.

 

[Snake_Baker]

'Pablo EskoBear'
View attachment 1115801

It’s a tourist attraction in Kentucky. God bless America

I doubt they had to do that much embalming to keep it preserved.

You could pluck a hair off it, grind it up, snort it, and be off your **** in minutes.

 

[ferball]

No. Human nature will ultimately intervene, but that does not exclude anarchism from being a very useful engine to keep society on a better track.

As the brilliant saying goes, "I am not an anarchist because I see it as an ultimate solution, I am an anarchist because there are no ultimate solutions."

The statist path ultimately arrives at tyranny. Without exception.

Okay that's fair enough.

 

[ferball]

88 pounds of pure coke. 88 ******* pounds

Exactly. How could it have stopped itself?

"Ohh just a little bit more couldn't possibly hurt."