Rank the best coaches in the AFL 1- 16.

[Squeak]

Malthouse above Williams? I don't think so. I'd have Daniher about Malthouse.

Thinly veiled, but veiled nonetheless.

Just for a minute pretend Malthouse isn't coach of Collingwood. Now would you rate him above Williams? Of course you would.

 

[hotpie]

Thinly veiled, but veiled nonetheless.

Just for a minute pretend Malthouse isn't coach of Collingwood. Now would you rate him above Williams? Of course you would.

Just pretend for a minute that Neale Daniher had taken over the rabble that was Collingwood five years ago. Would he have led the clubs to two Grand Finals? Of course he wouldn't have.

 

[sainters2004]

1.Matthews
2.Williams
3.Pagan
4.Sheedy
5.Wallace
6.Daniher
7.Malthouse
8.Thomas
9.Thompson
10.Eade
11.Roos
12.Connolly
13.Worsfold
14.Clarkson
15.Laidley
16.Craig

 

[masai]

Fair enough, but I don't reckon CC is as bad a coach as rated by the Big Footy experts here.

Agreed, as I have said on the Freo Board, 12 months is a long time in footy. This time next year numbers 3 - 5 could be rated 14 if they have a bad season and their fans go feral. Last season Chocco Williams was almost a "dud", 12 months makes a difference.

At Freo I still lay a fair amount of blame at the players feet for a below expected output in 2004. CC and the players can do better, 2005 will see the results (toes crossed .....).

 

[Deej]

Deej, if Malthouse ran West Coast into the ground then Pagan ran North into the ground. The fact is we have system designed for good sides to be run into the ground. The better you are the worse your opportunity to draft talent.

Pagan is a good coach but let’s not forget he coached the best player of the time, had a few other seriously top rate players and an overall good squad to work with. He lost a few preliminary finals before winning one. His 2 premierships are a good achievement but no better than Matlhouse and Sheedy during the time he was at North and not as good as Mathews in the time both have been coaching. He's also been at Carlton for 2 years without a finals appearance. Not that I would have expected one but that is exactly the point. He has never achieved anything outstanding. Towards the top end yes but not clearly the best.

They're just opinions MarkT, there's no definitive correct answer. I believe Pagan is the best coach, not because he's with Carlton it's something i've always thought. Parkin is Carlton's coach of the century but i'd rate Pagan a much better coach. Matthews and Malthouse i believe are quite similar coaches, but that's just an observation for the outer.

 

[Deej]

Bitter I say.

Does he remind you of yourself?

Different people have different perspectives (just like with the glass of half-full water). If i were williams i'd probably have exactly the same opinion of nick stevens as williams does, so yeah i guess there are a few things i admire about chocco and attitudes to life that i probably share with the guy.

 

[tztommo]

is everyone rating eade and wallace at their clubs now or are they rating them on their past history as coaches becuase if u arent rating them on their past history why have some of u put them so high up?

1.Matthews--3 Premieship on the trot is something that will be extremely hard to beat these days with such a strong competition. He really worked his way up the ladder and picked up one of the best sides to ever play.
2.Sheedy--Well IMO opinion one of the greatest ever coaches and i would havehim top if only Matthews hadnt coached Brisbane to 3 flags on the trot
3.Williams--Did well to win a flag last year which really shows what a good coach he is. At one stage they nearly only had 24 fit players or something like that. To come back and win a premiership from that it really shows that he never gives up and always keeps thinking of new ideas.
4.Pagan--Did well to get Carlton sort of into finals contention last year with IMO the worst squad in the comp.He has also done well considering Carlton's financial status at his arrival
5.Thomas--Did well with such a young line to get them in contention for the flag but with more experience for the yuonger players they will challenge for the flag even more then last year
6.Thompson--Great young line up and did well to boost their confidence last year and their experience ready for an assualt at the flag this year
7.Roos--Doesnt have the best of sides at his disposal but still manages to get the swans in the finals year in year out.
8.Worsfold--Has a great midfield at his isposal which he uses but his forward line is terrible so he coaches well considering their forward line is terrible. But it is on the improve.
9.Daniher--Coached well last year but he seems to be inconsistent as a coach. What i mean is that one year he will get his side playing well and the next year they will play terrible
10.Malthouse--Malthouse has proved his inability to prepare his side for 2 grand finals and then not back up the next year with a finals pace at least
11.Connolly--He has one of the best lists in the comp IMO but just cant do any damage in the finals
12.Laidley--Hasnt really done much with the Roos but last year he did iprove as a coach

13.Eade
14.Clarkson
15.Wallace all in bold are equal. yet to prove themselves.
16.Craig

 

[slugger]

While at North, the query for Pagan was always his treatment of young guys. Always seemed to want to bring in a pretty average player who'd been around a while just to top up the list.

Can't take anything away from his job last year though. Apart from the occasional shellacking, they played to their maximum in a lot of games, and we'd all be happy if our coaches got that level of competitiveness.

The knock on Sheeds is that he can't build a dynasty. Always wants to tinker around the edges.

The one I'd worry about is Connolly, the wannabe Sheedy. That was a very ordinary performance last year.

Thomas seems to have great man-management skills, but I really do wonder about his football nous.

 

[WestCat]

No they didn't. Wallace and Eade took over bottom teams. The Doggies and the Swans were cellar dwellers when they started coaching.

Didn't Eade take over the squad that Barassi built?

Didn't Wallace take over asquad which already had a young Chris Grant (and probably others)?

Can't remember exactly, but I think both coaches had some young stars in their lists when they got there, bit like Thomas at the Saints now. If not, then they did a good job of building their teams, because they both had great teams in the late 90s.

 

[nic_rox13]

is everyone rating eade and wallace at their clubs now or are they rating them on their past history as coaches becuase if u arent rating them on their past history why have some of u put them so high up?

1.Matthews--3 Premieship on the trot is something that will be extremely hard to beat these days with such a strong competition. He really worked his way up the ladder and picked up one of the best sides to ever play.
2.Sheedy--Well IMO opinion one of the greatest ever coaches and i would havehim top if only Matthews hadnt coached Brisbane to 3 flags on the trot
3.Williams--Did well to win a flag last year which really shows what a good coach he is. At one stage they nearly only had 24 fit players or something like that. To come back and win a premiership from that it really shows that he never gives up and always keeps thinking of new ideas.
4.Pagan--Did well to get the cats into finals contention last year with IMO the worst squad in the comp.
5.Thomas--Did well with such a young line to get them in contention for the flag but with more experience for the yuonger players they will challenge for the flag even more then last year
6.Thompson--Great young line up and did well to boost their confidence last year and their experience ready for an assualt at the flag this year
7.Roos--Doesnt have the best of sides at his disposal but still manages to get the swans in the finals year in year out.
8.Worsfold--Has a great midfield at his isposal which he uses but his forward line is terrible so he coaches well considering their forward line is terrible. But it is on the improve.
9.Daniher--Coached well last year but he seems to be inconsistent as a coach. What i mean is that one year he will get his side playing well and the next year they will play terrible
10.Connolly--He has one of the best lists in the comp IMO but just cant do any damage in the finals
11.Laidley--Hasnt really done much with the Roos but last year he did iprove as a coach
12.Malthouse--Malthouse has proved his inability to prepare his side for 2 grand finals and then not back up the next year with a finals pace at least


13.Eade
14.Clarkson
15.Wallace all in bold are equal. yet to prove themselves.
16.Craig

hmmmm u seem 2 have quite a bit of time on your hands

 

[tztommo]

hmmmm u seem 2 have quite a bit of time on your hands

nah not really

just of the top of my head

how slow do u think i type?

but do u think it is accurate

 

[Thrawn]

4.Pagan--Did well to get the cats into finals contention last year with IMO the worst squad in the comp.

Wha... what? Coached Geelong last year? Finals contention? What are you smoking boy?

 

[Hammerfire]

Grant Thomas = A crap coach
Grant Thomas = Carried by a good list
Grant Thomas = Priority Picks

Give me Reiwoldt, Koschitzke (sp?) and Ball anyday.

 

[MarkT]

tztommo, your rating of Malthouse and you reasoning is a joke isn't it? 2 GF's in a row would be backing up wouldn't it? He took over a side that finished last with 4 wins and clearly the worst list in the comp with very little young talent. His first year they went from 4 to 7 wins, then to 11 in his second year and then to 2 GF’s. So far Pagan is on about the same schedule but he has to make the GF this year to maintain it. Good luck! How do you rate Collingwood's list? Are you one of those that say Collingwood have an ordinary list or has Malthouse dragged them down?



Deej, yes that are all just opinions and to be honest mine changes on this issue regularly. I remember Dan saying Carlton would finish top 4 in Pagans first year. They finished 15th. Senior AFL isn’t VFL U19’s. It doesn’t matter how good you are if you don't have the players in the squad or on the park you won't win.

A lot of people don't rate Walls. He had a good record with Fitzroy, won a flag with Carlton, got sacked by Elliot and was a flop after that. As a commentator I can't believe he is a premiership coach. Still he is. Was he a good coach, did Carlton have a great squad or both? Who really knows. The bottom line with Pagan though is the facts say he is one of the few multiple premiership coaches. Armed with a good squad he can win you a flag. Armed with an ordinary squad he'll get you ordinary results. Same with Mathews and Malthouse.

Sheedy might actually be the best of the lot by a margin because he deosn't get ordinary results and if you factor in list maintenance, which IMOm is one of the most important aspects of coaching in a socialist cap and draft environment, he is so far clearly the best there is no second place. However he won 1 flag with one of the best lists of the modern era. Either side of losing 1 game for the season they lost important finals and didn't win flags.

On the other hand all records are distorted at the moment because the player and trade markets have been corrupted by new entrants with startup squad concessions and an uneven salary cap.

It just proves there are so many variables. Your opinion may well be right but it isn’t based on objective facts.

 

[local]

Didn't Eade take over the squad that Barassi built?

Didn't Wallace take over asquad which already had a young Chris Grant (and probably others)?

Can't remember exactly, but I think both coaches had some young stars in their lists when they got there, bit like Thomas at the Saints now. If not, then they did a good job of building their teams, because they both had great teams in the late 90s.

Wallace took Dogs from wooden spoon to 3rd in his first year (97) - Not a bad effort.

Eade took Sydeny from 12 to a grand final (95) in his first year - Not a bad effort either.

2 very good coaches. I'm expecting Richmond to improve this year, say around 12-10th. But I'm expecting the Dogs to be the surprise packet of 2005.

 

[tztommo]

tztommo, your rating of Malthouse and you reasoning is a joke isn't it? 2 GF's in a row would be backing up wouldn't it? He took over a side that finished last with 4 wins and clearly the worst list in the comp with very little young talent. His first year they went from 4 to 7 wins, then to 11 in his second year and then to 2 GF’s. So far Pagan is on about the same schedule but he has to make the GF this year to maintain it. Good luck! How do you rate Collingwood's list? Are you one of those that say Collingwood have an ordinary list or has Malthouse dragged them down?



Deej, yes that are all just opinions and to be honest mine changes on this issue regularly. I remember Dan saying Carlton would finish top 4 in Pagans first year. They finished 15th. Senior AFL isn’t VFL U19’s. It doesn’t matter how good you are if you don't have the players in the squad or on the park you won't win.

A lot of people don't rate Walls. He had a good record with Fitzroy, won a flag with Carlton, got sacked by Elliot and was a flop after that. As a commentator I can't believe he is a premiership coach. Still he is. Was he a good coach, did Carlton have a great squad or both? Who really knows. The bottom line with Pagan though is the facts say he is one of the few multiple premiership coaches. Armed with a good squad he can win you a flag. Armed with an ordinary squad he'll get you ordinary results. Same with Mathews and Malthouse.

Sheedy might actually be the best of the lot by a margin because he deosn't get ordinary results and if you factor in list maintenance, which IMOm is one of the most important aspects of coaching in a socialist cap and draft environment, he is so far clearly the best there is no second place. However he won 1 flag with one of the best lists of the modern era. Either side of losing 1 game for the season they lost important finals and didn't win flags.

On the other hand all records are distorted at the moment because the player and trade markets have been corrupted by new entrants with startup squad concessions and an uneven salary cap.

It just proves there are so many variables. Your opinion may well be right but it isn’t based on objective facts.

Yes i Screwed up Malthouse. i left out at the start so i just stuck at the end

chek my edited version now

 

[Kildonan]

Grant Thomas = A crap coach
Grant Thomas = Carried by a good list
Grant Thomas = Priority Picks

Give me Reiwoldt, Koschitzke (sp?) and Ball anyday.

I'm not sure you understand the process of recruitin too well: Riewoldt, Koschitzke and Ball would help poor old Richmond, sure, but they've already been given almost the same number of high draft picks and they have wasted them

Here is a list of results from the last 10 years:

Freman - 13-13-12-15-15-12-16-13-05-09 6 years at the bottom
St Kilda - 14-10-01-06-10-16-15-15-11–03 4 years at the bottom
Richmon - 03-09-13-09-12-09-04-14-13-16 4 years at the bottom
Magpies - 10-11-08-14-16-15-09-04-02-13 4 years at the bottom
Demons - 09-14-16-04-14-03-11-06-14-05 4 years at the bottom
Hawtho - 15-08-15-13-09-08-06-10-09-15 4 years at the bottom

Note that no team has managed to capitalise on "hoarding draft picks" by subsequently winning a premiership.

Note that Richmond have been gifted the same number of high draft picks and where has it got them? Maybe it's our recruiting team that yuo should be envious of.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

is everyone rating eade and wallace at their clubs now or are they rating them on their past history as coaches becuase if u arent rating them on their past history why have some of u put them so high up?

13.Eade
14.Clarkson
15.Wallace all in bold are equal. yet to prove themselves.
16.Craig

Why can't Eade and Wallace be rated on what they've done in the past? The poll isn't on who's done the best at their current club. I assume people are including Malthouse and Pagans past teams when rating them