Rd 11 2013 St Kilda v WCE

[Barrels]

As I said in the North Good v Bad thread, what have we got to lose...?

next week:

FB: Wright // Staley // Roberton
HB: Geary // Simpkin // Dal Santo
CR: Webster // Ross // Montagna
RK: McEvoy // Steven // Armitage
HF: Murdoch // Stanley // Lee
FF: Milne // Riewoldt // Curren

Int: Ledger // Jones // Ferguson // Saunders (sub)

Out: Hickey Saad Siposs Gwilt Fisher Ray Dempster
In: Jones Saunders Ledger Curren Staley Lee Simpkin

Upgrade: Curren Staley

Honestly.. what have we got to lose? Besides cash that is, and if the AFL is going to keep propping up the Dees and GWS, we're apples...

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Well that young team you mentioned couldn't do any worse, they would at least have a crack at the footy. I thought Ray was serviceable today, excluding the first quarter. Ledger has to come in, surely?

 

[Barrels]

Well that young team you mentioned couldn't do any worse, they would at least have a crack at the footy. I thought Ray was serviceable today, excluding the first quarter. Ledger has to come in, surely?

Again as I said in the other thread, we're not going to learn anything more about Ray, either he's depth/fringe or he's gone, but he's not going to win games off his own boot and certainly not right now. Give his spot to a Curren or a Ledger and find out what they've got.

Maybe swap Curren and Lee around in that team.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

I would not mind seeing some more youngsters in the team and Lee in for Hickey, Stanley to tag Nick Nat. Drop Saad for another mid.

 

[mysainters]

Don't we have to wait until rd 12 now for Curren?

 

[Coconut_twirl]

I think Ray still has some good football ahead of him and can offer another 3-4 good years for the club. I'm sure there will be other clubs interested in him come season end if St.kilda don't want him anymore.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Don't we have to wait until rd 12 now for Curren?

Unless gilbert is out for another 8+ weeks then yes. Gilbo listed as 7-10 weeks on the injury list.

 

[sauce_head]

I want Jones in. At least we will get first hands a couple of times. Don't care for losing like this even in Te name of development. At least get somebody there to help us walk tall, even if we are tanking.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

next week:

FB: Wright // Staley // Roberton
HB: Geary // Simpkin // Dal Santo
CR: Webster // Ross // Montagna
RK: McEvoy // Steven // Armitage
HF: Murdoch // Stanley // Lee
FF: Milne // Riewoldt // Curren

Int: Ledger // Jones // Ferguson // Saunders (sub)

Out: Hickey Saad Siposs Gwilt Fisher Ray Dempster
In: Jones Saunders Ledger Curren Staley Lee Simpkin

Upgrade: Curren Staley

Honestly.. what have we got to lose? Besides cash that is, and if the AFL is going to keep propping up the Dees and GWS, we're apples...

Seriously 7 changes?

Well that young team you mentioned couldn't do any worse, they would at least have a crack at the footy. I thought Ray was serviceable today, excluding the first quarter. Ledger has to come in, surely?

Leaving out Gwilt, Fisher, Ray and Dempster we could do much, much worse.

 

[Grav]

What Watters said after the North debacle
"Our midfield depth is not what it needs to be. We were exposed early, but there's no magic wand.

"We'll probably bring up another couple of young mids and expose them and play and teach them. That's the only way forward and, at the end of the year, we'll recruit. There's no secret to getting there."

Be interesting to see if he sticks to his words and who he brings up.

 

[Barrels]

Seriously 7 changes?

Yeah, why not! I'm completely aware it's ridiculous, but if we're going to get flogged we might as well learn as much about the list as we can. And I think Fisher, Dempster, Saad and Siposs at least are currently playing hurt or out of petrol tickets.

 

[stkildathunda]

If we are going to bring in players, then at least bring in blokes in good form. TDL deserves another chance as small forward, and at least he can go into middle. Give him an extended run in side and see what he can do. Dont just drop him after 1 game. Siposs has to go out, he needs a good rocket. Saad out for TDL, and Ferguson just isnt in good form, shouldnt have played based on VFL form this year. Also we need more midfielders. But then again Fisher needs to be dropped.

OUT: Siposs, Saad, Ferguson/Fisher
IN: Ledger, Saunders, TDL

They are probably 3 changes id make right now, id also consider bringing in Murdoch or maybe Tom Lee but id probably let him have another couple weeks in VFL to build up fitness and some confidence.

 

[Rors]

I think giving a few games in a row to the likes of Ledger, TDL over the next few rounds (i'm aware we have a bye too) isn't such a bad idea. We are playing a poor brand of football & it would be good to see if anyone who's been given their shot at regular gig will rise to the occasion, & maybe even help lift the team effort. If they come in & do not go well then we haven't really lost much, as we'll know that they don't have what is takes & in Ross' words "move you on"

 

[hayes]

Out: Hickey/Macca, one of the back flankers.
In: Murdoch, Saunders.

Keep Stanley forward. Pretty much a dead rubber but I loved seeing him forward and in the ruck again, looks like he's taken the confidence from playing in the backline up forward where there isn't anywhere near as much pressure.

Ferguson stays because he only played half the game.

Siposs and Saad I'd persist with for now.

 

[The Punter]

We're going to win this game. West Coast interstate on the 5 1/2 day break after Monday night, us fired up after that performance. This will play out like Round 9, 2002.

Anyway, if we make more than four changes, we're conceding the match. So let's not do that.

Who should absolutely keep their spot? Let's look:

Hickey: you could see his development yesterday. Won hitouts - next comes hitouts to advantage. When in marking contests, controlled the crumbs, which is the great asset of Kosi in the side. Leave Hickey in.
Steven: our most consistent player period.
Montagna: if he's not suspended.
Riewoldt: obvious, even though at times his head fell yesterday.
Geary: never shirks a contest.
Roberton: top 5 B&F at the moment.
Armitage: good for the run. Better after quarter time.
Saad: I thought he worked hard. Drop the other bloke first.
Dempster: although I'm not too sure about this one.
Dal Santo: thought it was the hardest he's worked this season.
Stanley: he was a better forward yesterday because of the time he's spent in the backline.
Webster: tough and can kick. Loved him yesterday. Took the game on.
Gwilt: top effort outmatched on Petrie after half time. Deserves another week on that.
Wright: see Armitage.

That's fourteen. Of the other eight, here's who'd I keep:

Milne: Just to keep the better defender off Saad.
Ross & Newnes: although they may need a rest.
Ray: he got plenty of the ball.

That leaves the following omissions:

Siposs: no point leaving him out there and letting his confidence be destroyed. Handballing too much, which indicates he's not being used in the right way.
McEvoy: Hickey's passed him, and he's running on empty. Out on form.
Fisher: if he's injured, leave him out till he's right. If he's not injured, just leave him out because he showed little leaderhip yesterday just when it was needed. Didn't give a crap in the first quarter, and tried nothing.
Ferguson: I can't recall ever seeing a debutant so clearly out-of-depth. Didn't look anywhere near up to it. Hopefully if he does get another crack he's much better, but I ain't holding my breath.

Ins: Lee, Koschitzke, Ledger, Simpkin
Out: Siposs, McEvoy, Fisher, Ferguson

B Geary Simpkin Dempster
HB Gwilt Stanley Roberton
C Montagna Dal Santo Newnes
HF Lee Riewoldt Ray
F Milne Koschitzke Saad
Foll Hickey Armitage Steven
Int Webster Ledger Wright Ross

 

[hayes]

I don't have much faith that we can win any games until we put more mids in the side. IMO two forwards (one of the smalls and a medium or tall) and a back flanker need to come out for mids. For the life of me I can't figure out why Watters felt the need to play all of Roo, Stanley, Hickey and Siposs all in the forward line at the same time when we're lacking run.

 

[L_W_P]

I've been calling for Milne to have a spell but watching at home yesterday (having sick children is the best haha) I actually forgot that Saad was even playing, such was his lack of impact.

I'd actually drop them both at this point. TDL has earned a recall so he replaces Saad and Milney goes out for another mid, probably Ledger. he might have the chance to pull of a Shane Tuck/Brock McLean style comeback over the next few weeks.

I'd go with the same talls again for one more game, if only for some sort of consistency. See if Ferg can run out a full game then bring in Tommy Lee to play at CHB. It's appears to have shown Rhys a thing or too so why not see how Dr Feelgood goes down back?

Not sure we should risk Wright's health either. Came back from a cracked jaw and copped a serious hit to the back. Might be better having a couple weeks off with the bye. Same with Siposs. Looks out of gas and could do with an extra week off to freshen up.

OUT - Saad, Milne, Wright, Siposs
IN - Ledger, TDL, Saunders, Murdoch.

Wold love to bring in Simpkin and start the "Centre Square Enforcer" project but he has only just come back. Needs another couple of weeks to build a fitness base.

 

[Rors]

Out: Saad, Siposs,

In: Ledger, Saunders

Happy to have anyone off the injury list, even if fit & ready to go this week, hold off & come back in after the bye

 

[thomas_m18]

IN: Ledger
IN: Dennis-Lane
IN: Saunders
IN: Lee/Dunell

OUT: Ferguson (son.)
OUT: Saad
OUT: Siposs
OUT: Hickey/Fisher/Newnes/Ross/whoever

Riewoldt, Stanley FF/CHF with a resting ruck possibly floating through if Watters decides to persist with Hickey. TDL in on form (relative form.), and Ledger and Saunders will give it a crack at least. Could just be the three with Dunell missing out but he isn't getting any younger so bring him in and give him a crack, probably as sub though. I know we need to persist with the kids, but Saad and Siposs need a spell IMO, and Ferguson was so far out of his depth I fear how Darling/Kennedy/Cox/NicNat would beat him up.

If we want to drop Hick to put Stanley in the ruck I wouldn't mind giving Tommy Lee another crack up forward, although I'd assume his output wouldn't be great. Could be much of a muchness, but I would like to see Stanley and Macca reunited again.

EDIT: Dunell is 23. Thought he was around 25 at least.

 

[Strahany]

In all honesty, I wouldn't be adverse to McEvoy getting a rest. I know that we're playing against THE ruck duo of the competition, but Hickey needs to get exposed at some point in time, and Stanley competed well with Naitanui before his injury last year.

If we want a pure match up, then Stanley needs to play on NicNat for 100% of the game. If its too risky to ruck with him/we'd rather keep Stanley in a singular position, then this can't happen, obviously.

This isn't a difficult process; you look at Sandringham, pick out the players who are in form, and see if there are any similar players who are currently under performing/are playing through injury. If so, you make the change. If not, you don't.

The only exception to the "in form requirement" should be if someone is vitally important for the structure of the team, and their counterparts are even more out of form, or if we need to change the structure of the team, i.e add an inside midfielder.

Do we want a KPF? Get Lee
Do we want an inside mid? Get Ledger
Do we want more of an outside type? Get Saunders
Do we want a small forward? Get TDL
Do we want a defender? Get Blake, or Simpkin if he has pulled up well.
Do we want a part time ruck? Get Blake or Koschitzke, depending on if we want a defender or forward.

As for who should be in the gun, I'd say that, for varying reasons, the positions of Siposs, Saad, Milne, McEvoy, Fisher, and Ferguson need to be looked at, and compared to the above.

Ideally, Siposs should go for a rest/find some form, McEvoy looks off his game for whatever reasons, and deserves a spell, Fisher looks injured, so needs to come out, Ferguson simply didn't look up to it, and looked rushed in, and one of Saad/Milne may need to get pulled, depending on what Scott wants from his small forwards.

Therefore:
Siposs -> Lee
Fisher -> Blake
Saad/Mikne -> TDL
McEvoy ->Ledger/Saunders
(Ferguson -> Simpkin) this depends on Simokin's fitness.

Such changes would be ideal if they decide to keep Stanley forward. If they want to switch him back to defence again, then Koschitzke would need to come in as the secondary ruck instead of Blake, although Blake could remain in the side at the expense of Ferguson (of course, that would mean Simpkin would stay in the VFL for another stint).

 

[Plugger35]

In: Ledger, White, Milera

Out: Ferguson, Saad, Hickey

 

[Barrels]

Now that I've taken a breath...

I'd still like to see the mass clean-out as I reckon it would be very illuminating, however, conservatively;

IN: TDL Blake* Ledger Curren
OUT: McEvoy Siposs Fisher Saad

* Simpkin if he's ready

FB: Wright // Blake // Roberton
HB: Dempster // Gwilt // Dal Santo
CR: Ledger // Geary // Montagna
HF: TDL // Stanley // Curren
FF: Milne // Riewoldt // Ray
RK: Hickey // Steven // Armitage
Int: Ross Newnes Webster Ferguson (s)

Ray as a mid-sized marking target to take some heat off Roo. Geary to give some grunt in the midfield, Ledger, Ross, Newnes and Curren to rotate through there. Ferguson to brought on when the heat is off (whichever way that is), and even potentially up forward to ease him into the level. Dal to HB to free him up, swapping with Webster. Gwilt and Simpkin or Blake will be greatly outsized, but there's not much we can do about that.

 

[mysainters]

Out Wright (inj) Milne (omit)
In Saunders ledger

Webster into the team, Tom or josh to sub

Ben to take the resting ruckman, Stanley to ruck with Tom, mids like joey Armo and jack to rest forward.

Fisher forward where he could potentially keep glass accountable.

Keep persisting with Siposs, don't drop ferguson given he could probably take more of a creative role if fisher moves forward and wright misses through injury.

 

[Defacto]

B Dempster [Lecras] Roberton [Kennedy] Stanley [Cox]
HB Webster [Hill] Fisher [Darling] Geary [Masten]
C Ray [Kerr] Armitage Steven
HF Lee Roo Montagna
F Milne Maister Hyphen
R McEvoy Dal Jones [Priddis]

INT Newnes Wright Ross
SUB Saunders

OUT: Siposs, Hickey, Saad, Gwilt, Ferguson
IN: Lee, Maister, Hyphen, Jones, Saunders

 

[mysainters]

Why do people want to drop Ferg and Siposs?

Give them a crack for goodness sake, a consistent run at it.

Like Ferg is the first kid to have shocking debut, and he won't be the last. Guys like Lenny and Dal joke about their first games all the time.

That first quarter was hot, in unique 'North getting whacked' circumstances.

Put him on Darling and let him learn from his mistakes.