Rd 11 2013 St Kilda v WCE

[stkildathunda]

*Last updated June 3
Nathan Wright Back Scan
Adam Schneider Hamstring Test
Darren Minchington Hamstring 1-2 weeks
Lenny Hayes Calf 2-3 weeks
Sam Gilbert Knee 6-9 weeks
Daniel Markworth ACL Season

 

[mysainters]

*Last updated June 3
Nathan Wright Back Scan
Adam Schneider Hamstring Test
Darren Minchington Hamstring 1-2 weeks
Lenny Hayes Calf 2-3 weeks
Sam Gilbert Knee 6-9 weeks
Daniel Markworth ACL Season

Hope we don't rush Schneider back, no point really...

 

[MCG-Unit]

Well that young team you mentioned couldn't do any worse, they would at least have a crack at the footy. I thought Ray was serviceable today, excluding the first quarter. Ledger has to come in, surely?

Yes unbelievable folks wanting Ray to be tipped out. I thought he was in their best 4.
Same calls made every week. Guess Dal Santo gets a break this week..........

Hope inside mids like, Ledger, Jones, or Curren come in. Consider Maister, Saunders, Lee, Murdoch & Dennis-Lane

Out: Wright (if inj) Saad - maybe Siposs / Ferguson

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

What happened to Wright?

 

[stkildathunda]

Thought id do bit of write up on who's been pushing for selection in VFL on weekend. Important to keep in mind with few players and those that play this week, that with Saints bye in Round 12 (week after this game!) they cant then play VFL during week off. So some these players coming back from injury or needing find form may be better suited to not playing AFL this week so they can keep playing.

Tom Simpkin - Played his first game since May 5 on weekend. Was one of Zebras best, finishing with 10 disposals, 4 tackles, 4 marks. He didnt really show signs that he'd missed so much footy. Continually put his body on line as we have come to expect. Id suggest they'll want to give him another run in VFL (plus then during Saints bye) before he comes back into Saints team.

TDL - Has now kicked 18 goals in 5 VFL games, including 8 goals in his last 2 games. Was standout player in first half, but went missing in 2nd half (as did most other Sandy players) to finish day with 13 disposals, 4 tackles, 2 marks & 4 goals. Definitely in the mix to replace Ahmed Saad. Added bonus is he can play up on wing and win his own ball.

Tom Ledger - Finished with 19 disposals, 2 tackles after being played on wing and up forward. Rarely (if at all) started in centre square. Was easily one of Saints best again and given Saints lack of clearance abilities has to get chance soon. Has averaged 27.75 disposals in last month.

Tom Lee - Was used all over the ground. Started game at full back on Max Gawn and didnt take long for Casey to expose him one on one with Gawn dominating. After quarter time he was shifted to forward line where he was lively. Also had stints in ruck. Kicked couple goals to go with his 12 disposals, 3 tackles & 4 marks. Was best game he's played this year. He's had few injury issues this year that has set him back, so might be keen to keep getting some miles into his legs over next couple weeks.

Brodie Murdoch - Quiet game from Murdoch, did some nice things though. Might be in mix after collecting 14 disposals, 3 tackles, 1 mark given Watters was public about lack of midfield depth.

Josh Saunders - Good game by Saunders, disposal at times wasnt the best. Wasnt afraid to put body on line as we have come to expect. 19 disposals, 2 tackles, 1 mark

Sam Dunell - In bit of form slump at moment, not sure he'll be in mix. Needs to capture his early season form again.

Tom Curren - Was one of Curren's quietest games for while. Had 12 disposals, 4 tackles, 1 mark and kicked 1 goal. Curren has now kicked 11 goals in his 7 goals. Has kicked goal in all but 1 game! Has to be close to being promoted and making his debut, has been in form Saints player in last 18 months in VFL. Regularly in best and winning B&F.

Justin Koschitzke - Had very quiet first half (3 disposals) but was much better in 2nd half finishing with 10 disposals. Played in ruck and up forward. Not sure it was performance that will get him into team, but given was his first hitout in 3 weeks will be better for run.

Jason Blake - Was solid as we have come to expect from Blakey.

Spencer White - 2 disposals, 1 mark. Is still raw and Saints fans need to be really patient with him. He will be worth the wait, but wouldnt expect him to debut anytime soon.

 

[MCG-Unit]

What happened to Wright?

Sent for scans on his back after NM game

 

[CHBench]

Fox Footy Analyst ‏@FoxFootyAnalyst

WCE score from 61% of inside 50s, clear No.1 in AFL.​

Put 20 men in their back 50 from the opening bounce.

 

[Sainttony]

I'm not sure that this is the right thread buti want to talk about Sipposs. Having watched him up forward a few times now I think he is troubled by Nick R presence. He seems reluctant to lead to obvious spots and with authority in case he gets in Nicks way. He does not seem to be an alternative lead proposition as he seems to want to stay away from Nick.

So in effect he is playing as an opportunist and not an alternative route to goal. In a game like Sundays the opportunist forwards had little effect due to lack of forward entries and subsequently Arryn finds himself with very few disposals.

My solution is to swap him with Farren Ray. Ray is a strong overhead mark and is mature enough to not worry about a spray from Nick. Arryn on a wing or high half forward could still be an avenue to goal due to his kicking plus it gives him a position to make his own without having to worry about his captain.

Advice to him would be to just go out and play your own game. Don't worry about making mistakes just do your thing.

Comments anyone

 

[Persevering Saint]

The great thing about footy is that, every week is a new game. It gives us the chance to start afresh, look at things afresh.

So, let's think of it this way. Structurally, how EXACTLY would you each want the team to go in this week? Forget about WHO for a while. Start with just the roles.

About 6-7 veterans, 8-10 kids, the rest midaged players.

Tall defensive back: Two
Small defensive backs: Two
Offensive backs: Two

Inside mids: five (-sm forward)
Outside mids: four (including the sub)
Taggers: One
Rucks: Two(-tall forward)

Tall Forwards: Two (+Ruck)
Small Forwards: One (+inside mid)
Medium Forwards: One

Work out your preferred structure. Then we start working out who we would like to fit that structure, based on who is available on our list.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Watching how the Tigers are beating the Eagles we need pace in our midfield and forwards to beat their defensive structures and Richmond are defending like crazy.

Hopefully Watters is watching the game tonight.

 

[hayes]

I'm not sure that this is the right thread buti want to talk about Sipposs. Having watched him up forward a few times now I think he is troubled by Nick R presence. He seems reluctant to lead to obvious spots and with authority in case he gets in Nicks way. He does not seem to be an alternative lead proposition as he seems to want to stay away from Nick.

So in effect he is playing as an opportunist and not an alternative route to goal. In a game like Sundays the opportunist forwards had little effect due to lack of forward entries and subsequently Arryn finds himself with very few disposals.

My solution is to swap him with Farren Ray. Ray is a strong overhead mark and is mature enough to not worry about a spray from Nick. Arryn on a wing or high half forward could still be an avenue to goal due to his kicking plus it gives him a position to make his own without having to worry about his captain.

Advice to him would be to just go out and play your own game. Don't worry about making mistakes just do your thing.

Comments anyone

I have no doubt that is what's happening. That's where we're so different from Geelong, the 40th bloke on the list is just as entitled to the ball as the first bloke. They're a true team in every sense of the word, we have a hierarchy.

 

[Saint_Dos]

My ins/outs:

Saad for Saunders
Siposs for Ledger
Hickey for Blake (allows Stanley to go fwd)
Wright (if inj) for Murdoch/Simpkin

WCE fwds concern me this week with Kennedy, Darling, Cox, Le Cras and others.

We also need to show some progress because anything around the 100 points mark may cause Mitch Brown to look elsewhere who despite the other options seems the most achieveable pickup.

 

[Strahany]

Well, this just got a whole lot more interesting.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Well, this just got a whole lot more interesting.

We have a chance of winning this but we need to pick pacy mids.

 

[bird_man]

I wasn't keen on Blake playing again but if it means Stanley can play and develop as a forward than it may be a good idea. Saad had a shocker, might be a good chance to play him as a sub. I hope we bring Lee in, him with Roo and Stanley as our forwards seems a lot more dangerous than the resting ruckman.

 

[Baldur]

West Coast hammered by Richmond. Again we will face a team, fresh from being humiliated and desperate for a win to keep finals hopes alive. Hopefully we can trip them up.

 

[mysainters]

I have no doubt that is what's happening. That's where we're so different from Geelong, the 40th bloke on the list is just as entitled to the ball as the first bloke. They're a true team in every sense of the word, we have a hierarchy.

Agree

Said similar myself but don't get much love.

If you say anything remotely negative about Roo you are interpreted as questioning his overall standing in the game.

We need the next crop to stand up, they don't get the same building up from our leaders as other clubs, I don't know why.

 

[Rors]

Agree

Said similar myself but don't get much love.

If you say anything remotely negative about Roo you are interpreted as questioning his overall standing in the game.

We need the next crop to stand up, they don't get the same building up from our leaders as other clubs, I don't know why.

Exactly! The previous generation didn't carry on like this... Don't recall Loewe, Harvey, Burke blasting young players as much as this crop....

TBH it's the selfish Gen Y thing.... they all suffer from FOMO (fear of missing out) & don't like NOT being the centre of attention

 

[Falchoon]

Well, this just got a whole lot more interesting.

I was thinking the exact same line.

If we can't fix our own season can we at least end someone elses.

 

[The Punter]

St Kilda were 4.90 at Sportsbet yesterday. I was waiting for a good display from the Eagles to push it beyond 5.00.

Now we're paying 3.15. Humph.

 

[Persevering Saint]

The great thing about footy is that, every week is a new game. It gives us the chance to start afresh, look at things afresh.

So, let's think of it this way. Structurally, how EXACTLY would you each want the team to go in this week? Forget about WHO for a while. Start with just the roles.

About 6-7 veterans, 8-10 kids, the rest midaged players.

Tall defensive back: Two
Small defensive backs: Two
Offensive backs: Two

Inside mids: five (-sm forward)
Outside mids: four (including the sub)
Taggers: One
Rucks: Two(-tall forward)

Tall Forwards: Two (+Ruck)
Small Forwards: One (+inside mid)
Medium Forwards: One

Work out your preferred structure. Then we start working out who we would like to fit that structure, based on who is available on our list.

Perhaps others might disagree with that structure - maybe it's too tall in the forward line? Perhaps we need one less ruck? Perhaps we need a stronger contingent in the backline? Let us all know. I think this is a healthy place to start.

Anyway, so based on my proposed structure, I start to fill that out.

Tall defensive back: Stanley, Fisher (if unfit, Gwilt)
Small defensive backs: Dempster, Wright (if unfit, Saunders)
Offensive backs: Ferguson, Roberton

Inside mids: Armitage, Steven (-sm fwd), Jones, Ledger, Ross (sub)
Outside mids: Montagna, Dal Santo, Webster, Ray
Taggers: Geary
Rucks: McEvoy, Hickey (-tl fwd)

Tall Forwards: Riewoldt, Maister (+Hickey)
Small Forwards: Saad (+Steven)
Medium Forwards: Lee

So, based on that, the Ins and Outs are:
Out: Sippos (inj), Newnes (om), Milne (om)
In: Lee, Ledger, Jones

A few explanations:

1. Jones is NOT there to tag - he's not capable of that role any more, because he's getting slow. Instead, he uses his strength and experience to just get the pill. Play him in that role specifically, and watch him get 25+ possessions.
2. Keep Ferguson in, but get him to play the kind of role he's meant to play - the offensive defender, like Gilbert.
3. Blame none of the forwards for lack of performance on Sunday - they can't perform well when the ball is virtually never where they're meant to be.
4. Sippos is not omitted on form. He's omitted on injury. The pace of AFL is killing the poor kid. Give him some time back in the VFL, and bring in Lee to play that lurking medium tall - he's good overhead and below his knees, which is what the medium should be.
5. I recognise Stanley did well as a forward, but I still think long term he's a backman.
6. It's unlucky for Newnes, but I simply see no room for him in the current team.
7. That's not a world-beating inside midfield, and I'd be tempted to swap another outside mid for an inside one (Saunders), but hey. At least it's five, with one of them being pretty experienced, rather than about two.
8. Seven veterans, eight kids - the maximum I allow for vets, and the minimum I allow for kids, given the strength and experience represented by the Coasters.
9. Actually, very small ins and outs - no mad crazed "sack everybody!". Just careful selection.
10. Saad stays, Milne goes. Harsh, but fair in the long term. Minch may take Saady's spot later in the season if he doesn't improve, which leads me to...
11. I want Curren elevated at Week 12. And I want one of our vets to fall on his sword and go on the LTI (Schneids?) to elevate Minch later.

 

[The Enemy Within]

Why do posters keep saying Sippos is injured on what bases !!! and if he is injured why play VFL injured to me is injured you can't perform at your best so you don't play at any level.Get the injury fixed then play.

 

[Falchoon]

Why do posters keep saying Sippos is injured on what bases !!! and if he is injured why play VFL injured to me is injured you can't perform at your best so you don't play at any level.Get the injury fixed then play.

moon bases

 

[The Enemy Within]

moon bases

Umm iv'e been there

 

[aussierulesrules]

Why do posters keep saying Sippos is injured on what bases !!!

The mail is that he has had groin problems and possibly even OP (whichever is the case it would be the injury that kept him from playing any footy anywhere for a couple of weeks in rounds 3 and 4) and that he has hardly been training, hence looking completely exhausted so much in recent weeks, which I never noticed last year and this year he theoretically ought to be much fitter, not less, having reportedly had his first full preseason this summer (and probably a bigger one, training as a "rebounding HB") and also having another year under his belt.

He was looking a million dollars early on in the NAB Cup, but then I started to notice how completely exhausted he looked by about the middle of that campaign and he has generally struggled for form ever since and has looked a shadow of the Siposs we saw at the end of last year, even though, as I said, he has just had what was reported as his first full preseason and is now into his 3rd season, where he was expected to step it up a notch or two, not down a notch or two.

and if he is injured why play VFL injured to me is injured you can't perform at your best so you don't play at any level.Get the injury fixed then play.

Completely agree. I just hope we aren't going back to the sort of stuff we apparently did around 2004/2005, when we apparently played some of the young ones (like Kosi and Ball and so on) with injuries, when they really should have been allowed to heal. Especially since we're not in contention now. There's no need to be playing anyone who is injured.

I think this is another area where we are trailing behind Geelong in. They reportedly don't take any chances with those that are injured and let them heal properly. I really wish we did the same.