RDFL Thread - 2012

[Itsmyshow]

Round 4 in the RDFL, the round that will be remembered as when the contenders were split from the pretenders.
The gap between the top 5 and the rest was well and truly on show on the weekend, despite the promise of some competitive matches, the best 5 sides in the competition proved just how big the gap is the the remainder of the field, one of the 4 or 5 sides in the next bracket just has to step up now and make a statement of their own.

I traveled out to Riddell in the hope that with Riddell undermanned and Centrals, despite a loss last week, with a big chance to have an impact on one of the contenders. What I saw was the complete opposite.

I have always been a supporter of what the men in charge are trying to achieve at Centrals, but on the weekend, the on field side of the club was insipid, they barely gave a yelp against what was a seriously depleted Riddell line up.
The Bombers were missing, Mick Allen, Cam Casson, Matt Sammut, Grant Puxley, Aaron Blade, Rob Henry, Glen Robertson and Nick Ash to name a few as well as losing James Climas half way through the game to a hamstring injury.
Normally I would go through a quarter by quarter wrap of the game, but there is really nothing to go through from this game, earlier in this thread, OMNI challenged me to name the best 6 for Centrals on the day, but I am not sure it is that simple, Riddell would have filled the first 15 spots in the best players at least, if you rated every player out of 10, the top Centrals player would have registered a 5 at best.
The Bombers were brutal in this contest, from the first bounce till the last bounce, they dominated every aspect of the game. To be honest, Centrals were lucky to register a goal at all.
I have seen the Bombers in all 4 games so far this season and finally got to witness the type of football that Jarrod Silvester can supply when he is switched on and ready to play, he was clearly the most dominant performer on the ground, he provided run, carry and that all important finishing touch. The automatically named in the best Haydn Ross deserved his position in there this week, he was dominant around the ground and used the ball well, but the most pleasing aspect for the Bombers would be the form of they young players. Daniel Jurczyluc would consider himself extremely unlucky to not have been named in the Bombers best, he dominated the far side of the ground all day and used the ball extremely well, Matthew Darby showed he has a big future, he was an excellent target for the Bombers up forward and then found plenty of the ball further up the ground late in the game, he needs size, but that game should fill the youngster with confidence. James Nolan was excellent across the half back line, he cut off plenty of Centrals attacks and then used the ball well with long kicks that opened the contest up.
For Centrals, it is back to the drawing board this week. They have a massive game in the context of their season, coming up against Wallan, these are the games that will decide which of the next bracket will fill that 6th spot. So both sides should be desperate for the win. Centrals need to show some hunger for the contest, especially through the midfield, Steve James came to the club as a big ruckman, but barely had an opportunity in the middle on the weekend with Jono O'Brien taking most of the work, Jono has a big future, but might be better suited to a Ruck Rover role rather than stand alone ruckman, letting James take the body contests is why he is there. Adam Fenton was starved of opportunity, but also didn't work hard enough when the ball was on the ground, although he wasn't alone there.
Big week for Centrals, they really need to respond to Saturday's performance, the positive is, they couldn't be less competitive, this is where the competitive beast in the players needs to come out.

Work Rate:
It was the clear difference in the two teams, Riddell were willing to do everything required of them to ensure they won every contest, Centrals weren't, they played a self important game style on the weekend, more interested in being individual than doing what was required for team success, hopefully they took notice of the opposition, they could learn some very valuable lessons.

My Votes:
3 - Jarrod Silvester (Riddell)
2 - Daniel Jurczyluc (Riddell)
1 - Matthew Darby (Riddell)

What I learned in Round 4

• We have a top 5, Sunbury, Diggers, Romsey, Riddell and Macedon, then daylight, then Centrals, Wallan, Broadford, Rockbank and Kilmore, then a gap to Woodend/Hesket, then daylight, followed by daylight, followed by a gap to Lancefield.
• Some horrible horrible incidents, and it doesn't reflect the standard of the clubs and people in our league.
• Unfortunately, there are too many people out there that sit around waiting for negative incidents just so they can bring out their little pot shots.
• Could put the top 6 in the performance ladder in any order this week.

Performance Ladder - Round 4

Sunbury Kangaroos
Macedon
Riddell
Romsey
Broadford
Diggers Rest
---------------------
Kilmore
Woodend/Hesket
Wallan
Rockbank
Lancefield
Melton Centrals

 

[sm1ley0]

Hi,
Just wondering is there somewhere you can see actual reports from games and the resulting tribunal findings rather than the rumour and inuendo found here at times.
Cheers

 

[Itsmyshow]

Hi,
Just wondering is there somewhere you can see actual reports from games and the resulting tribunal findings rather than the rumour and inuendo found here at times.
Cheers

No. At this stage the RDFL don't release tribunal results.

 

[matt_nicholls]

No. At this stage the RDFL don't release tribunal results.

Always a pet peeve of mine. All reports should be made public and the results of all reports should be made public.

A lot of leagues in Victoria - including all the major VCFL ones - even allow the media to sit in on tribunal hearings. Of course the media has to leave with everyone else when the matter is being discussed by the panel, but is then allowed back for the handing down of the decision.

I'm not going to blame the current administrators, because even Neil Sharp didn't like anything to do with reports going public, but I reckon its time the RDFL changed. If you do the crime on the field, you get named. If you are found guilty or not guilty, people should be able to see that, too.

 

[Itsmyshow]

Always a pet peeve of mine. All reports should be made public and the results of all reports should be made public.

A lot of leagues in Victoria - including all the major VCFL ones - even allow the media to sit in on tribunal hearings. Of course the media has to leave with everyone else when the matter is being discussed by the panel, but is then allowed back for the handing down of the decision.

I'm not going to blame the current administrators, because even Neil Sharp didn't like anything to do with reports going public, but I reckon its time the RDFL changed. If you do the crime on the field, you get named. If you are found guilty or not guilty, people should be able to see that, too.

There are more important and pressing issues to deal with first, perhaps it will be something that changes down the line.. Personally I am not adverse to the publishing of tribunal results as it has become more common throughout local football. It's just not something that is currently done.

I'm not sure that results are private (don't quote me on that though), but they are just not currently published.

Like I said though, perhaps in the future.

 

[JNorth96]

A melee in the second quarter has ended in two Tiger players, brothers Noa and Tevita Fonua, being charged with a count of "serious striking". Both are to face the tribunal tonight.

 

[glenn_ox]

I'm very interested in what the RDFL do.

If someone could post an update as soon as any info becomes available, that would be great.

 

[Mongrel]

I'm very interested in what the RDFL do.\n\nIf someone could post an update as soon as any info becomes available, that would be great.

\n\n

fonua copped 4 weeks. i will post the other fonua verdict shortly

 

[Mongrel]

\n\n\n\nfonua copped 4 weeks. i will post the other fonua verdict shortly

8weeks for tivta fonua

 

[glenn_ox]

8weeks for tivta fonua

8 weeks?! Oh good, we'll all be able to cheer him on as he commits his next assault in 9 weeks time.

Wasn't this his first game for Lancefield? Might be best they move him on, who knows what sort of damage that sort of association may do to the club.

EDIT: Cheers for the update.

 

[blues12]

I am a little confussed as to what is worthy of what type of suspension for what type of offence.
You can get 2 weeks for calling an umpire a cheat.
You can get 2 years for running at an umpire with threatening language
You can get 8 weeks for king hitting somebody,then kicking them in the head while they are on the ground.
I must say i am very dissapointed with our tribunal system.

I wonder if he played for a couple of other clubs in this league, if it may have been a different result.

 

[T_bone84]

Since names have been mentioned I feel both sides of the story need to be heard.

First of all, as for the way this unfortunate incident has been described by people that were no closer then 100m away of the melee of 36 men, it is completely false and totally one sided.

I have watched this thread very closely and have been extremely disappointed in what I have been reading. It is because of people like glenn_ox (the way he makes up a completely different story to what actually happens.) makes a good and fair man look like an animal (unjustly).

I am intrigued with what is going on in the head of glenn_ox when he makes up a story where in his own words:

It was all one player, should receive a life ban from the RDFL.

Incidents included kicking the face of a player (who had been punched from behind) whilst he was lying on the ground injured. Following that up with 5-10 quick punches to the face of another player who was already lying on the ground unconscious (again from a behind the play punch). Then threatening members of the crowd as he was sent off.


Really mate you and everyone that agreed with your story should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.

I can assure everyone there was:
- No kicking involved
- No punching from behind (at least not from Lancefield players)
- No one that was unconscious.
And as for the crowd I can remember clearly that it was the player that was being threatened.
I mean honestly glenn_ox could you get anything right in your story?

Just want to make it very clear that a Sunbury player was the first person to throw a punch, and it was to the back of the head of one of the accused.

As for being disappointed at the tribunal system blues12, I am also disappointed. The umpires statements did not match with neither the Sunbury nor the Lancefield’s players, yet with a lot of doubt and holes in his and her statement it was taken as gospel. To be standing within 5 meters with a clear and non obstructed view could see 3-4 hits with one hand to the face in an uppercut motion yet he could not tell which hand was used????? 5 meters with a clear and non-obstructed view really? After being asked again which hand did he punch with he said, “If I had to pick one it would have been left.” Honestly clear view of an uppercut motion. Knows the punch action yet you don’t know what hand? And no you were wrong it was the right. So am I the only one that sees holes in this story? 5m away clear non-obstructed view and did not see or report anyone for kicking? Again the holes in glenn_ox story? Informed by the panel that the racial slurs made as a Lancefield player was being dragged by his hair and punched in the face were irrelevant, with no major injury and that they knew nothing of the racial slurs that it could not be used as evidence? I don’t understand? Aren’t we there to introduce evidence? How are they expected to know if it is not brought to their attention? Their minds were made up before the Lancefield players went in.
I’m just glad that the panel of the tribunal are only doing amateur football and not in a court of law. Absolute disgrace.

I hope that clears a lot of the rumours and lies up from a few disappointing people and not condoning what was done and very sympathetic towards any players that were injured during the incident but see that it was NOT one person that attacked Sunbury players.

 

[The Real MO FO]

Not at all surprised by the disgusting low suspension by the Ridiculous District Football League... Players and Clubs aside.... The most Self absorbed umpires employed by worst run league in the past 20 years...... How could anyone not see this happen?..... I wonder if a certain former Kangaroos/Kilmore player committed such acts, what the outcome would be???????


Sorry to bring you into it bigfella

 

[glenn_ox]

TL;DR

You're right, he is such a 'good and fair' man. Apologies.

 

[Itsmyshow]

There seems to be a heck of a lot of confusion surrounding the process involved in any "incident" around the competition and the basic set up of a football competition.

Firstly. The RDFL, the umpires and the tribunal are 3 separate entities that have different requirements and duties.

When an incident occurs, a couple of things can happen. The umpire can see the incident and make a report, that report can either have a set penalty or be referred to the tribunal OR the umpire doesn't see the incident.

If the umpire does not see the incident, the club has the prerogative of submitting an investigation request to which the league will assign an investigation officer who will complete a process of investigation before submitting his findings and recommendations to the board.

In this case, the Umpire has made a report for "serious striking" and that charge has been heard and the player found guilty. If there were other incidents that were not reported, then the club has the prerogative to request an investigation into these incident's.

The comments directed to the RDFL are unfair and unfounded, the RDFL follows the process that is in place, they do not hear the cases nor decide the suspensions.

The comments directed at the Tribunal are unfair and unfounded, the tribunal can only make a decision based on the charge laid and the evidence produced around those charges.

The comments directed to the umpires is unfair and unfounded, the umpires can only report the incidents that they are witness to, not everyone sees every occurrence on the field.

That is why there is clear processes in place to ensure that any incident can be investigated by the correct procedures.

I realize that this is a topic that is heavily weighted due to emotions, but prior to making these observations, it can be a good thing to take into account the entire process and having a clearer understanding of the situation rather than an emotion based response.

 

[Idontthinksom8]

TBone84 - Well its obvious you are one of the family members involved in Saturdays horrific incident.
As much as you can attempt to ensure everyone that no kicking was involved you are full of it. Maybe you are saying this as you wish to belive it yourself. Myself and several witnesses have seen a kick, a stomp to the head then a prevention of a second kick to the head. Its kinda something people dont make up dont you think. Its the biggest dog actual in general never mind in football.
You say no punching from behind, you have go to be kidding, how on earth did Sunbuy's ruckman get knocked out then.
No one that was unconscious well mate you were seriously at a different game or you are a blind mind telling the story.
You are also forgetting it was the back man from Lancefield that took the first hit on Sunburys forward which started the act. It was a very late and dirty hit.
It honestly doesn't matter which hand was used to hit it was a act and these boys should never be allowed to play football again.
There to introduce evidence more like to bull crap and try to make yourselfs look and sound like honest and respectable people, what a joke.
Nothing you have said has cleared a single thing up you would be the only one to believe a word that you wrote.
Lancefield would be very smart to remove them/you from their club to save their name

 

[OMNIPOTENT_1]

TBone84 - Well its obvious you are one of the family members involved in Saturdays horrific incident.
As much as you can attempt to ensure everyone that no kicking was involved you are full of it. Maybe you are saying this as you wish to belive it yourself. Myself and several witnesses have seen a kick, a stomp to the head then a prevention of a second kick to the head. Its kinda something people dont make up dont you think. Its the biggest dog actual in general never mind in football.
You say no punching from behind, you have go to be kidding, how on earth did Sunbuy's ruckman get knocked out then.
No one that was unconscious well mate you were seriously at a different game or you are a blind mind telling the story.
You are also forgetting it was the back man from Lancefield that took the first hit on Sunburys forward which started the act. It was a very late and dirty hit.
It honestly doesn't matter which hand was used to hit it was a act and these boys should never be allowed to play football again.
There to introduce evidence more like to bull crap and try to make yourselfs look and sound like honest and respectable people, what a joke.
Nothing you have said has cleared a single thing up you would be the only one to believe a word that you wrote.
Lancefield would be very smart to remove them/you from their club to save their name

A way way waaaaay over the top over reaction.

 

[Idontthinksom8]

A way way waaaaay over the top over reaction.

Not if you were there its not

 

[OMNIPOTENT_1]

Since names have been mentioned I feel both sides of the story need to be heard.

First of all, as for the way this unfortunate incident has been described by people that were no closer then 100m away of the melee of 36 men, it is completely false and totally one sided.

I have watched this thread very closely and have been extremely disappointed in what I have been reading. It is because of people like glenn_ox (the way he makes up a completely different story to what actually happens.) makes a good and fair man look like an animal (unjustly).

I am intrigued with what is going on in the head of glenn_ox when he makes up a story where in his own words:

It was all one player, should receive a life ban from the RDFL.

Incidents included kicking the face of a player (who had been punched from behind) whilst he was lying on the ground injured. Following that up with 5-10 quick punches to the face of another player who was already lying on the ground unconscious (again from a behind the play punch). Then threatening members of the crowd as he was sent off.


Really mate you and everyone that agreed with your story should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.

I can assure everyone there was:
- No kicking involved
- No punching from behind (at least not from Lancefield players)
- No one that was unconscious.
And as for the crowd I can remember clearly that it was the player that was being threatened.
I mean honestly glenn_ox could you get anything right in your story?

Just want to make it very clear that a Sunbury player was the first person to throw a punch, and it was to the back of the head of one of the accused.

As for being disappointed at the tribunal system blues12, I am also disappointed. The umpires statements did not match with neither the Sunbury nor the Lancefield’s players, yet with a lot of doubt and holes in his and her statement it was taken as gospel. To be standing within 5 meters with a clear and non obstructed view could see 3-4 hits with one hand to the face in an uppercut motion yet he could not tell which hand was used????? 5 meters with a clear and non-obstructed view really? After being asked again which hand did he punch with he said, “If I had to pick one it would have been left.” Honestly clear view of an uppercut motion. Knows the punch action yet you don’t know what hand? And no you were wrong it was the right. So am I the only one that sees holes in this story? 5m away clear non-obstructed view and did not see or report anyone for kicking? Again the holes in glenn_ox story? Informed by the panel that the racial slurs made as a Lancefield player was being dragged by his hair and punched in the face were irrelevant, with no major injury and that they knew nothing of the racial slurs that it could not be used as evidence? I don’t understand? Aren’t we there to introduce evidence? How are they expected to know if it is not brought to their attention? Their minds were made up before the Lancefield players went in.
I’m just glad that the panel of the tribunal are only doing amateur football and not in a court of law. Absolute disgrace.

I hope that clears a lot of the rumours and lies up from a few disappointing people and not condoning what was done and very sympathetic towards any players that were injured during the incident but see that it was NOT one person that attacked Sunbury players.

Firstly, Id like to thank you for your intelligent & quite articulate right of reply post.
Plenty of passion & conviction without descending down the all too popular & mindless path of abuse & vilification. Well done.

Now, in Mr ox's defence T bone where eye witnesses are relating what they "SAW", well there may be many varied & differing accounts of the SAME incident. Does it make his account wrong ? No ! People see things differently for all sorts of reasons. ie - angle, distance, obstructions just to name a few.
That is why it is SO important for the Tribunal to hear as much evidence as it can or is available to it to come up with the right conclusions.
And by conclusions I mean, & this is the biggy pal, & there are only TWO in my mind that count.........& I have had a little experience with matters of a tribunal nature.

1. Did an offence take place that contravened our rules ?

Once this has been established. And here is another major point T bone.........There are NO excuses that count for me whatsoever for breaking rules on the field of play in a GAME of footy. NONE ! Especially where violence is involved ! I just dont care WHY someone did what they did ! Or WHICH fist they did it with ! And Provocation just does not cut it for me as a defence either. I just dont wanna know & its a waste of time !
Why ? Because, players are there to play the game of footy. Not to take the law into their own hands. Thats what the Tribunal is there for. Thats the system we have in place. If a player feels aggrieved by something that has happened on the field of play that has been missed by the Umpires, then he can take it up with his club. There are mechanisms in place these days that ensure that nothing untoward on the field of play is aloud to go through to the keeper unpunished.
Now, once it has been established that an offence took place, (guilt proven) then all that needs to be known now is -

2. Was it intentional ? Was it accidental ?

If intentional, then move straight on to penalty phase. If accidental then move too - Was it reckless or was it negligent ? These are the ONLY mitigating factors that matter for mine. Once this has been determined then move on to penalty phase as well.

Once in penalty phase the players plea & past history should be taken in account, plus any precedent which may be relevant to the case when determining an appropriate sanction.

So in conclusion, we should always keep in mind that, it aint easy being on one of these tribunal panels. Yes its amateur, & thank God its not a court of law ! No one can find pleasure in putting your hand up (after all its voluntary !) to go out in the middle of Winter, mid-week, to a cold old building miles away from the comfort of your arm chair & TV. then be judge, jury & executioner in one of these type of cases.
NO ONE !
But someone has to do it, & they are INDEPENDENT of the RDFL and the Umpires. All are separate bodies....... AS IT SHOULD BE !!!
They have to sift through all the bullshit & distractions & come up with an appropriate outcome which will please all 12 Clubs, the Umpires, the League & its Affiliates................................. Good luck with that one !

 

[OMNIPOTENT_1]

Not if you were there its not

Were the police called ??? Ambulance ???

 

[JogOn]

Were the police called ??? Ambulance ???

Both teams called police. An ambulance was called for the more severely injured and another player was taken straight to the Dr at half time and took no further part in the game.

 

[OMNIPOTENT_1]

Both teams called police. An ambulance was called for the more severely injured and another player was taken straight to the Dr at half time and took no further part in the game.

Oh Shit ! I take it back then. It WAS pretty serious !!!

Should the Umpire have pulled the plug perhaps ?

 

[The Real MO FO]

IMS how do you say all that and still keep a straight face?.... Your memory is very short..... Jamesy was found guilty and suspended before he even attended the tribunal last year.... You know it and we all know it.... As soon as he was goaded into a response/reaction from that knucklehead in the crowd.... It was a matter of how much he would get..... Not innocent until proven guilty of swearing and pushing a spectator but guilty of swearing and punching a spectator.... I'm not here to defend the big fella.... There is an example of the RDFL being all over an incident and getting the result it wanted.... Remember just because it appears to be more than arms length dosen't make it truly independant!..... I have sat on a tribunal hearing as a judge and we were told by that certain Tribunal Administrator (who had seen the incident and encouraged the umpires to make numerous reports) that they wanted a severe suspension handed down..... This was when we were being briefed at the beginning of the night! This Administrator was Treasurer of the same league where the tribunal was being held! It does go on IMS.... To say it doesn't is very niave on your behalf....

P.S Am more than happy to sit down over a cold refreshing ale to discuss this further.... So don't take this is a public attack on you!

 

[Cobber21]

We all have that one mate who no matter the situation something bad always happens.

In his eyes it's bad luck and the phrases "it's unfair", "it's not my fault" or "I didn't do anything wrong" seem to get replayed over and over.

Everyone makes mistakes. Maybe this time it wasn't our mates fault, but the fact that he is involved leaves us with a question. Why is it always him? Year after year, incident after incident it's the same man in question.

Whats the common denominator?

 

[Itsmyshow]

IMS how do you say all that and still keep a straight face?.... Your memory is very short..... Jamesy was found guilty and suspended before he even attended the tribunal last year.... You know it and we all know it.... As soon as he was goaded into a response/reaction from that knucklehead in the crowd.... It was a matter of how much he would get..... Not innocent until proven guilty of swearing and pushing a spectator but guilty of swearing and punching a spectator.... I'm not here to defend the big fella.... There is an example of the RDFL being all over an incident and getting the result it wanted.... Remember just because it appears to be more than arms length dosen't make it truly independant!..... I have sat on a tribunal hearing as a judge and we were told by that certain Tribunal Administrator (who had seen the incident and encouraged the umpires to make numerous reports) that they wanted a severe suspension handed down..... This was when we were being briefed at the beginning of the night! This Administrator was Treasurer of the same league where the tribunal was being held! It does go on IMS.... To say it doesn't is very niave on your behalf....

P.S Am more than happy to sit down over a cold refreshing ale to discuss this further.... So don't take this is a public attack on you!

I am talking about this issue RMFO.. People have the freedom to make any assumption they like about how it all operates, I am not overly interested in what has happened in the past, only how things operate now. I couldn't be more confident in the process, but the decision making is in the hands of a body that is independent to the RDFL. There are comments being thrown around about the penalty handed down for the charge of serious striking, we have both been in football for a long time, I am pretty certain that serious striking is not the charge for kicking, pretty sure that only a charge of serious misconduct or the like covers that type of report. So I am pointing out that the suggestion/assumption that is currently being made is incorrect. The charges heard last night was of "serious striking" and was dealt with appropriately.

I do like the idea of a cold refreshing ale though.