Richmond FC team of the 21st century (as per online voting)

[peternorth]

Online votes were collated on players eligible to be named in this prestigious team. The team thus far is:

B:	Nick Vlastin (1)	Darren Gaspar (2)	Dylan Grimes (2)
HB:	Chris Newman (1)	Alex Rance (18)	Bashar Houli (14)
C:	Joel Bowden (11)	Dion Prestia (3)	Wayne Campbell (9)
HF:	Brett Deledio (3)	Matthew Richardson (12)	Kane Lambert (23)
F:	Shane Edwards (11)	Jack Reiwoldt (8)	Brad Ottens (5) *
R:	Toby Nankervis (25) *	Dustin Martin (4)	Trent Cotchin (9) *
Int:	David Astbury 12	Nathan Brown (7)	Shaun Grigg (6)
		Kane Johnson (28? and 17)

You'd think Nath Brown will be in the mix, Nath Foley too. Perhaps Shane tuck and Dunc Kellaway. Dan Jackson for services to the club.

Rucks are solid with Nank and Brad to share duties.
Backline, good luck scoring against the cat like Gas and Rance. And Grimesy too. Vlas doing as Vlas does, with Chris and Bashar providing dash and dare in no particular order.

I see Bowden and Lids rotating on the flanks. Both excellent marks for their height. Meatball in the middle no complaints. Campbell on the other wing provides a bit of x factor, hope he can rediscover his brownlow favourtism form.

Richo, Jack. Well, no comment needed. And Shedda provides silky skills, evasiveness and x factor.

Interesting tidbit. The backline features two players wearing no 1 and no 2. The midfield features two wearing no 3. Unless Tom Roach and Troy Simmons make the team, 8 and 5 are safe.


* Denotes ruckman

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Nahhhh still take Sheds...simple reason...longevity...

 

[joelsyt]

Grigga is the third person on the interchange.

 

[peternorth]

Grigga is the third person on the interchange.

Well deserved. We certainly won that trade! Griggas inclusion gives us 3 ruckmen.

Grigg pointing to the exit sign

 

[Wallaby]

So the B&F winners not included so far are Kane Johnson, Andy Kellaway, Dan Jackson and Mark Coughlan. You would think one of them would have the inside running.
Astbury is the reserve KPD/KPF, so that probably rules out AndyK. The rest have similar records - Coughlan for sure if not for injuries.

Bellis for the wildcard and the BF board to erupt.

 

[mopsy]

Imo in some positions its not exactly a problem eliminating high quality players its more about finding them.

If asked out of the blue who are the best two HBF this century then Cameron and Deledio would come straight to mind.
A dearth of high quality wingmen would see me pick Deledio on a wing and id replace him with Joel Bowden as a HBF.
I just dont rate Newman or Houli both very limited players with frustrating short comings imo.

Of the wingmen Ellis, Grigg, Caddy lol, MvIntosh, Tivendale and possibly Campbell. In the end i went with Grigg.

When we talk about KPD's then there is only three to pick from. Rance who is a monty and then its a choice between Gaspar and Astbury.I really wish there was other decent choices but i went with Gaspar.

When it comes to Half forward Nathan Brown is the first picked. Not one small/med fwd this century comes close to him.
I also included Tom Lynch after one season he is clearly the best tall fwd we have had outside of Richo and JR.

I have a real issue picking a small fwd. i dont think this century any have done enough. The choices are Lloyd, King, Nahas, Krakouer, Butler, Rioli, Castagna and Bolton and medium fwds Pettifer and Morton

Instead i went with mid fwds who kick a few less goals but offer us something more than just a fwd, Edwards and Lambert

As for ruckmen the choices are not anything special. Stafford, Ottens, Maric, Simmonds, Nankervis, For me its Ottens.

B/ Vlastuin - Gaspar - Grimes
H/B Cameron - Rance - Bowden

C/ Grigg - Knights - Deledio
R/ Ottens - Martin - Cotchin

HF/ Brown - Riewoldt - Richardson
FF/ Edwards - Lynch - Lambert

Int/ Prestia - Campbell - Tuck - Foley.

 

[Grrr]

Imo in some positions its not exactly a problem eliminating high quality players its more about finding them.

If asked out of the blue who are the best two HBF this century then Cameron and Deledio would come straight to mind.
A dearth of high quality wingmen would see me pick Deledio on a wing and id replace him with Joel Bowden as a HBF.
I just dont rate Newman or Houli both very limited players with frustrating short comings imo.

Of the wingmen Ellis, Grigg, Caddy lol, MvIntosh, Tivendale and possibly Campbell. In the end i went with Grigg.

When we talk about KPD's then there is only three to pick from. Rance who is a monty and then its a choice between Gaspar and Astbury.I really wish there was other decent choices but i went with Gaspar.

When it comes to Half forward Nathan Brown is the first picked. Not one small/med fwd this century comes close to him.
I also included Tom Lynch after one season he is clearly the best tall fwd we have had outside of Richo and JR.

I have a real issue picking a small fwd. i dont think this century any have done enough. The choices are Lloyd, King, Nahas, Krakouer, Butler, Rioli, Castagna and Bolton and medium fwds Pettifer and Morton

Instead i went with mid fwds who kick a few less goals but offer us something more than just a fwd, Edwards and Lambert

As for ruckmen the choices are not anything special. Stafford, Ottens, Maric, Simmonds, Nankervis, For me its Ottens.

B/ Vlastuin - Gaspar - Grimes
H/B Cameron - Rance - Bowden

C/ Grigg - Knights - Deledio
R/ Ottens - Martin - Cotchin

HF/ Brown - Riewoldt - Richardson
FF/ Edwards - Lynch - Lambert

Int/ Prestia - Campbell - Tuck - Foley.

Houli's shortcomings were early on at Richmond, his last few years you really can't complain. While Newman wasn't a star, what exactly were his shortcomings?
Grigg was an average wingman in my eyes, a good midfielder but with his upsy daisy kicking he was ineffective off the wing. Edwards plays a lot of football off the wing these days. Bowden was a very good wingman. Sorry just can't have Grigg on a wing.

 

[peternorth]

Kane Johnson rounds out the squad.

He averaged over 1.0 one percenters a game

 

[mopsy]

Houli's shortcomings were early on at Richmond, his last few years you really can't complain. While Newman wasn't a star, what exactly were his shortcomings?
Grigg was an average wingman in my eyes, a good midfielder but with his upsy daisy kicking he was ineffective off the wing. Edwards plays a lot of football off the wing these days. Bowden was a very good wingman. Sorry just can't have Grigg on a wing.

Houlis shortcomings are still his shortcomings.They have never gone away.
Newmans short coming do you really have to ask. If you want my list of short comings i will pm them to you if you want rather than get into a player who is in the team of the century lol.

The fact he played 265 games says more about how poor we were than anything about how good he was.
Good ordinary sums him up, a selfish bloke who didnt know when to retire and at a club who lacked the balls to push him. A bloke who went into a final injured rather than doing the right thing by pulling out all because he had waited so long which says something in itself.
So many have played more games than they should have, and that really does reflect how poor we were with recruitent and development.It also explained why we were so poor for so long.
Thats not the players fault but the clubs, just because these players hung around for long periods it doesnt magically make them better players than they were.
Go look at the top 10 12 players for games played and Newman stands out like dogs nuts for all the wrong reasons.

This bloke has been named for no other reason than he somehow managed to play a shedload of games without any real lack of competition to his spot. Good ordinary really does sum him up as a footballer and he lasted 15 yrs.
They are applauding his longevity and very little else imo.He probably had two seasons that warrant discussion for a place in the team.Two out of 15.

How the club can pick him or Houli across h/b in front of Cameron and Deledio is totally laughable and Bowden played better footy than both in defense. T
he real reason is they had to include a 265 game player and coach favorite, a favorite who would have been a big part of the cause if Hardwick had got the sack and lets face it that must have been on the agenda.
They had to include a bloke who was fortunate enough to play in two premierships.Granted Houli performed his outside role very well in two g/f's but the whole body of work leaves a fair bit to be desired imo.

Its simple as defenders id take Leon Cameron, Deledio and Bowden over the other two every day of the week.

Last as stated Grigg has never been my cup of tea but fmd he has been better than the other two it aint saying much because all three have had their issues.The options on the wing are not that great as i stated.If we picked blokes who played the majority of their games on the wing then blokes like freakin king of soft Ellis would be named along with possibly McIntosh ah the mediocrity just goes on and on.

 

[peternorth]

Houlis shortcomings are still his shortcomings.They have never gone away.
Newmans short coming do you really have to ask. If you want my list of short comings i will pm them to you if you want rather than get into a player who is in the team of the century lol.

The fact he played 265 games says more about how poor we were than anything about how good he was.
Good ordinary sums him up, a selfish bloke who didnt know when to retire and at a club who lacked the balls to push him. A bloke who went into a final injured rather than doing the right thing by pulling out all because he had waited so long which says something in itself.
So many have played more games than they should have, and that really does reflect how poor we were with recruitent and development.It also explained why we were so poor for so long.
Thats not the players fault but the clubs, just because these players hung around for long periods it doesnt magically make them better players than they were.
Go look at the top 10 12 players for games played and Newman stands out like dogs nuts for all the wrong reasons.

This bloke has been named for no other reason than he somehow managed to play a shedload of games without any real lack of competition to his spot. Good ordinary really does sum him up as a footballer and he lasted 15 yrs.
They are applauding his longevity and very little else imo.He probably had two seasons that warrant discussion for a place in the team.Two out of 15.

How the club can pick him or Houli across h/b in front of Cameron and Deledio is totally laughable and Bowden played better footy than both in defense. T
he real reason is they had to include a 265 game player and coach favorite, a favorite who would have been a big part of the cause if Hardwick had got the sack and lets face it that must have been on the agenda.
They had to include a bloke who was fortunate enough to play in two premierships.Granted Houli performed his outside role very well in two g/f's but the whole body of work leaves a fair bit to be desired imo.

Its simple as defenders id take Leon Cameron, Deledio and Bowden over the other two every day of the week.

Last as stated Grigg has never been my cup of tea but fmd he has been better than the other two it aint saying much because all three have had their issues.The options on the wing are not that great as i stated.If we picked blokes who played the majority of their games on the wing then blokes like freakin king of soft Ellis would be named along with possibly McIntosh ah the mediocrity just goes on and on.

Cameron? Perhaps as a rebounder. Although IMO his best play was on the wing. Lids? Onball. Bowden? He was everywhere i guess.

As defenders in every sense of the word, andrew kellaway and his brother duncan. But then again...

 

[Bojangles17]

Ottens in is a disgrace , he had 1 good year , so did lynch and it won us flag , you be the judge

 

[Grrr]

Houlis shortcomings are still his shortcomings.They have never gone away.
Newmans short coming do you really have to ask. If you want my list of short comings i will pm them to you if you want rather than get into a player who is in the team of the century lol.

The fact he played 265 games says more about how poor we were than anything about how good he was.
Good ordinary sums him up, a selfish bloke who didnt know when to retire and at a club who lacked the balls to push him. A bloke who went into a final injured rather than doing the right thing by pulling out all because he had waited so long which says something in itself.
So many have played more games than they should have, and that really does reflect how poor we were with recruitent and development.It also explained why we were so poor for so long.
Thats not the players fault but the clubs, just because these players hung around for long periods it doesnt magically make them better players than they were.
Go look at the top 10 12 players for games played and Newman stands out like dogs nuts for all the wrong reasons.

This bloke has been named for no other reason than he somehow managed to play a shedload of games without any real lack of competition to his spot. Good ordinary really does sum him up as a footballer and he lasted 15 yrs.
They are applauding his longevity and very little else imo.He probably had two seasons that warrant discussion for a place in the team.Two out of 15.

How the club can pick him or Houli across h/b in front of Cameron and Deledio is totally laughable and Bowden played better footy than both in defense. T
he real reason is they had to include a 265 game player and coach favorite, a favorite who would have been a big part of the cause if Hardwick had got the sack and lets face it that must have been on the agenda.
They had to include a bloke who was fortunate enough to play in two premierships.Granted Houli performed his outside role very well in two g/f's but the whole body of work leaves a fair bit to be desired imo.

Its simple as defenders id take Leon Cameron, Deledio and Bowden over the other two every day of the week.

Last as stated Grigg has never been my cup of tea but fmd he has been better than the other two it aint saying much because all three have had their issues.The options on the wing are not that great as i stated.If we picked blokes who played the majority of their games on the wing then blokes like freakin king of soft Ellis would be named along with possibly McIntosh ah the mediocrity just goes on and on.

I don't agree on Newman, but I do agree that Cameron and Bowden were way better. Agree with Petermoth, both Kellaways were better also. Delidio was probably our best half forward with Brown. Still think Houli's last few years put him up there as one of the best rebounding hb's in the league. Defensively okay in that time as well, although prior to that he was very iffy under pressure.

 

[peternorth]

Maybe the brief selectors were given (after collating votes) was that the flanks are there to put in on ballers who dont fit into the centre, wings, and RR-Rover possies. Like in the 90s you'd see a gavvy brown, bob harvey or hocking on a HFF. In 1995 campbell was named on a HBF, and he was bemused by it stating "dont know how many times ive played there".

My fave, benny allan in the forward pocket of the 94 team. The previous year he was RR.

 

[Grrr]

Mark Coughlan and Nathan Foley over Kane Johnson and Shaun Grigg by some margin.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Houlis shortcomings are still his shortcomings.They have never gone away.
Newmans short coming do you really have to ask. If you want my list of short comings i will pm them to you if you want rather than get into a player who is in the team of the century lol.

The fact he played 265 games says more about how poor we were than anything about how good he was.
Good ordinary sums him up, a selfish bloke who didnt know when to retire and at a club who lacked the balls to push him. A bloke who went into a final injured rather than doing the right thing by pulling out all because he had waited so long which says something in itself.
So many have played more games than they should have, and that really does reflect how poor we were with recruitent and development.It also explained why we were so poor for so long.
Thats not the players fault but the clubs, just because these players hung around for long periods it doesnt magically make them better players than they were.
Go look at the top 10 12 players for games played and Newman stands out like dogs nuts for all the wrong reasons.

This bloke has been named for no other reason than he somehow managed to play a shedload of games without any real lack of competition to his spot. Good ordinary really does sum him up as a footballer and he lasted 15 yrs.
They are applauding his longevity and very little else imo.He probably had two seasons that warrant discussion for a place in the team.Two out of 15.

How the club can pick him or Houli across h/b in front of Cameron and Deledio is totally laughable and Bowden played better footy than both in defense. T
he real reason is they had to include a 265 game player and coach favorite, a favorite who would have been a big part of the cause if Hardwick had got the sack and lets face it that must have been on the agenda.
They had to include a bloke who was fortunate enough to play in two premierships.Granted Houli performed his outside role very well in two g/f's but the whole body of work leaves a fair bit to be desired imo.

Its simple as defenders id take Leon Cameron, Deledio and Bowden over the other two every day of the week.

Last as stated Grigg has never been my cup of tea but fmd he has been better than the other two it aint saying much because all three have had their issues.The options on the wing are not that great as i stated.If we picked blokes who played the majority of their games on the wing then blokes like freakin king of soft Ellis would be named along with possibly McIntosh ah the mediocrity just goes on and on.

Houli probably seen as the best half back in the comp over the last three seasons. All Australian. Second best in the only two GF’s he has played. Very high calibre finals player, who goes very hard when it matters most.

And you can’t fit him into the best 22 of a club that has largely struggled over the last 20 years?

The only way you can arrive at that position is by forming a view of him early on and steadfastly sticking to that no matter what evidence he provides contrary to your first view. I don’t mean to be antagonistic, but this is the weakness I have observed in your thoughts on several subjects, most notably, Francis Jackson. If the person does not achieve instant success you are often wiping them for good. Therefore, in your eyes, our two recent flags are not won to any large extent because players, coaches or recruiters improved their performances. You seem to see the success as mainly attributable to people who were strong from the start, or people who turned up when the success did. Caracella, Balme, Luke Williams etc.

It doesn’t make much sense to me. You cannot get the type of success from a long history of modest performance the way we have without getting better performance from existing assets.

Houli has been a fantastic player for Richmond, over a long period, and he only strengthens his case by continually improving. Any argument for his omission from this team shouldn’t be formed based on comparing him to $800k pa marquee players and saying they are better than him. Those top end blokes only make up about half of the team and are all automatic selections. Of the remainder, Houli is just as deserving to be in this team as any of them, Grimes, Vlastuin, Lambert, Edwards etc. And I would have Houli a clear level above say Grigg or Nankervis at this stage. In fact in your team you have Foley, Tuck, Grigg, Ottens, none of whom(whilst at Richmond) beat Houli for longevity, All Australian selection, recognition as best or near best in comp in a position over multiple seasons, or big game performance. I don’t mind your team overall but Houli is just a shocking omission.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Well deserved. We certainly won that trade! Griggas inclusion gives us 3 ruckmen.

Grigg pointing to the exit sign

Grigg over Brown is delusional and insane.

Richo and brown had a shit Richmond team 7-2 and Robin was getting like 4 goals 25 touches a game

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Grigg over Brown is delusional and insane.

Richo and brown had a shit Richmond team 7-2 and Robin was getting like 4 goals 25 touches a game

With all due respect to Grigg, who I admire, he has never had a top 4 B&F finish, came 5th twice in non finals years and was a midfielder. He should not be near a team like this.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Houli probably seen as the best half back in the comp over the last three seasons. All Australian. Second best in the only two GF’s he has played. Very high calibre finals player, who goes very hard when it matters most.

And you can’t fit him into the best 22 of a club that has largely struggled over the last 20 years?

The only way you can arrive at that position is by forming a view of him early on and steadfastly sticking to that no matter what evidence he provides contrary to your first view. I don’t mean to be antagonistic, but this is the weakness I have observed in your thoughts on several subjects, most notably, Francis Jackson. If the person does not achieve instant success you are often wiping them for good. Therefore, in your eyes, our two recent flags are not won to any large extent because players, coaches or recruiters improved their performances. You seem to see the success as mainly attributable to people who were strong from the start, or people who turned up when the success did. Caracella, Balme, Luke Williams etc.

It doesn’t make much sense to me. You cannot get the type of success from a long history of modest performance the way we have without getting better performance from existing assets.

Houli has been a fantastic player for Richmond, over a long period, and he only strengthens his case by continually improving. Any argument for his omission from this team shouldn’t be formed based on comparing him to $800k pa marquee players and saying they are better than him. Those top end blokes only make up about half of the team and are all automatic selections. Of the remainder, Houli is just as deserving to be in this team as any of them, Grimes, Vlastuin, Lambert, Edwards etc. And I would have Houli a clear level above say Grigg or Nankervis at this stage. In fact in your team you have Foley, Tuck, Grigg, Ottens, none of whom(whilst at Richmond) beat Houli for longevity, All Australian selection, recognition as best or near best in comp in a position over multiple seasons, or big game performance. I don’t mind your team overall but Houli is just a shocking omission.

Last few years Houli has been an integral part of the Team...
Playing in a weak side Houli may get showed up but then who wouldn't...
In our side his experience just makes him 'integral' ...I think of that dash in the wet off the backline through carlscum players to kick the ball forward...an earlier younger Houli may have hesitated but this experienced older Houli just took them carlscum players on...he's a smarter cagier player now and it shows...

 

[Marcel Proust]

3,3,3,2,2,6,5,4,2,2*. Goals p game...

@ plus 20+ touches a game. While being tagged at hff

Including the leg snap game

Vs. Grigg who would literally walk away from contests some times if he was feeling a little bit scared

 

[Bojangles17]

Mark Coughlan and Nathan Foley over Kane Johnson and Shaun Grigg by some margin.

Cogs has claims unfortunately for axel post injury he was never the same , grigg made a larger contribution over longer period

 

[Marcel Proust]

Cogs >

 

[Grrr]

Cogs has claims unfortunately for axel post injury he was never the same , grigg made a larger contribution over longer period

Both stars, Grigg was never a star, although a great Richmond man for sure.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Foley made the state of origin game and played well

 

[Ceehook]

does the title of this thread really ask this question

Which is the best side of the 21st century

not

make up your side from players from the 21st century ?

I think only two should be considered

the drought breakers

2017



versus the group that over came adversity ie( the disappointment of 2018 and the injury run of 2019)
2019


Each special in their own way , but I'll go with 2019 . despite not having Rance in the line up , Prestia , Caddy , Castagna had improved
we added Lynch , Soldo , Baker , Bolton & Pickett losing Butler , K Mac, Grigg, Townsend & Graham

an e Sports 2019 vs 2017 would be mouth watering

 

[Marcel Proust]

Lynch Richmond is better than none Lynch Richmond.

No disrespect to jack. Geroge. Caddy. Etc. Who were beyond human In the 17run

 

[Marcel Proust]

does the title of this thread really ask this question

Which is the best side of the 21st century

not

make up your side from players from the 21st century ?

I think only two should be considered

the drought breakers

2017

View attachment 872093

versus the group that over came adversity ie( the disappointment of 2018 and the injury run of 2019)
2019
View attachment 872094

Each special in their own way , but I'll go with 2019 . despite not having Rance in the line up , Prestia , Caddy , Castagna had improved
we added Lynch , Soldo , Baker , Bolton & Pickett losing Butler , K Mac, Grigg, Townsend & Graham

an e Sports 2019 vs 2017 would be mouth watering

Rance v jack or Lynch would be most excellent