Autopsy Roast & Toast R5 vs West Coast & Changes for The Bye

[TheOptimum18]

You’ve missed the point and are making excuses and are a revisionist. Why did it have to be narrowed down to midfielders?
Last I looked we needed tall forwards. I’m sure if you look hard enough you would find a midfielder in the last two drafts in the first and second rounds. Still not my point I was making. It was more about banking early picks building a future list like we did when we started with JR and so on. You should pick quality talls bc they take longer to develop then you add the midfield spark like Cotchin, Edward’s and Martin and then they’d be ready to go in unison. Then you bring in the cream like Prestia and Lynch in. That’s my theory anyhow and I’m sure if you look at lists in history that have built and won flags it would support this.

I understand the point you're making.

I'm asking the question that what is the point in banking an early draft pick when your midfield is VFL quality? Unless you accept that we fall as low as North and WCE have in the past couple seasons (which I personally don't), then a bigger priority back then would be to ensure that a blackhole appears in our midfield.

You can carry an older key fwd much more easier than an older midfielder, and you can also make do with make shift fwds much easier than make shift midfielders. Did today not show this perfectly? Did we watch the same game today?

The club clearly agrees since they went and got 2 midfielders. So going by that logic, if the club chose to not trade for those midfielders, then they would have tried to draft them instead.

Which leads me to ask the question, who are those midfielders?

You keep generalising about "banking youth", so name names then. Who would you have picked with the picks we had instead?

 

[TheOptimum18]

Your wasting your skills here , should be doing stand up .

What part have I been wrong then?

 

[TigerImposter]

Your wasting your skills here , should be doing stand up .

PMSL

 

[Snooza 100]

We have been absolutely flogged with the fixture start this year. We have been on the back foot since that shameful 5 day break in the opening round. Compare our opening 6-8 weeks fixture to Geelong who have been given an armchair ride. No wonder all the seniors have broken down.

20 frees to 11. No free kicks anywhere in our forward line. No surprise there it's been happening for 30y lol

The kids are getting a go but their consistency is always going to be up and down until they build AFL bodies and get used to the grind. That's what Ooze meant when he said they were tired already I reckon.

Development year. Free high hits at the draft with our injuries. Get some young, hard running classy talent in the midst and a couple of tall prospects and let Ooze do his thing.

Well said

On 2201117TG using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wrenny]

Ha! Nah, mate.
Probably Newcastle Knights fans.
I’m up at Lake Macquarie, just outside Newcastle.
Beautiful place but league heartland.

 

[TigerImposter]

I understand the point you're making.

I'm asking the question that what is the point in banking an early draft pick when your midfield is VFL quality? Unless you accept that we fall as low as North and WCE have in the past couple seasons (which I personally don't), then a bigger priority back then would be to ensure that a blackhole appears in our midfield.

You can carry an older key fwd much more easier than an older midfielder, and you can also make do with make shift fwds much easier than make shift midfielders. Did today not show this perfectly? Did we watch the same game today?

The club clearly agrees since they went and got 2 midfielders. So going by that logic, if the club chose to not trade for those midfielders, then they would have tried to draft them instead.

Which leads me to ask the question, who are those midfielders?

You keep generalising about "banking youth", so name names then. Who would you have picked with the picks we had instead?

Every line has a deficiency and not just our midfield. The list was cooked and riddled with mostly young duds. The latter probably explains your argument bc Clarke couldn't nail a pick. You bank the best players with your picks that are available. Again you are thinking short sighted as this list isn’t or was never going to win another flag. We needed to be planning for five seasons away and now it’s seven.

 

[The_Kraken]

You’ve missed the point and are making excuses and are a revisionist. Why did it have to be narrowed down to midfielders?
Last I looked we needed tall forwards. I’m sure if you look hard enough you would find a midfielder in the last two drafts in the first and second rounds. Still not my point I was making. It was more about banking early picks building a future list like we did when we started with JR and so on. You should pick quality talls bc they take longer to develop then you add the midfield spark like Cotchin, Edward’s and Martin and then they’d be ready to go in unison. Then you bring in the cream like Prestia and Lynch in. That’s my theory anyhow and I’m sure if you look at lists in history that have built and won flags it would support this.

2017 mids and KPP GF players’ draft positions.

Jack Riewoldt drafted 2006
Shane Edwards drafted 2006
Trent Cotchin drafted 2007
Alex Rance drafted 2007
Dusty Martin drafted 2009
David Astbury KPB drafted 2009
Dylan Grimes KPB drafted 2010

Apart from Jack, most of our 2017 KPP were drafted after our premiership mids

 

[tiger_tough]

While I do wish we give Sonsie more midfield time, I do feel that Graham playing midfield was the right choice, ONLY if he was told to play on Yeo.

Doesn't need to be a tag, but if we want to utilise the best strengths of Graham, at least tell him to mark a man.

Well he didn't do a very good job if he did, Yeo killed us.

We need to see if Sonsie has what it takes, hes not a forward. Graham is best as a half forward.

Miller had 19 possessions at 83% efficiency. Was our third rated player on the field according to Champion Data ...

Young and Brown had 6 and 7 possessions ...

Yze said in his presser that they deliberately left the midfield battle even numbers so Dow, MacAuliffe, etc had an opportunity to get on top or see where they needed to get to.

Bit disappointed in McAuliffes game tbh. Not sure his foot was 100%.

 

[guruisatiger]

This is the ideal opportunity to make a high risk call. However when you consider that both players were playing today and both were being beaten yet the coaches did nothing; do you really think they will be brave enough to make this happen

Meh

 

[TigerImposter]

2017 mids and KPP GF players’ draft positions.

Jack Riewoldt drafted 2006
Shane Edwards drafted 2006
Trent Cotchin drafted 2007
Alex Rance drafted 2007
Dusty Martin drafted 2009
David Astbury KPB drafted 2009
Dylan Grimes KPB drafted 2010

Apart from Jack, most of our 2017 KPP were drafted after our premiership mids

Rance and Jack were one year apart. The other two weren’t early picks so you’ve missed my point.

 

[Noidnadroj]

It’s hilarious that we get to see today what life is like without Hopper and TT … a 39-point loss to one of the worst teams in the history of footy (no, that’s not an exaggeration) … and still people say it was an error getting them in.

It’s all well and good to say ‘go down the bottom and bank the high end picks’ … that’s what Norf have been doing for 5-years … Phillips pick 3, LDU pick 4, Thomas pick 8, JHF, Scheezel, Wardlaw, McErcher, Duursma. Plus AFL handouts galore. They might eventually get there as a team… but how’s life as a Kangas supporter been the last 5-years? Wins of 4, 3, 2, 3 and on their way to another 2-3.

And to top it off, that stupid club wins the last round of 2023 and costs themselves Harley Reid. Could a club be any more incompetent? Even when they win, they epically lose.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. We are rebuilding and have lost a dozen flag stars the last 3-4 years… Houli, Jack, Cotch, Rance, Astbury, Edwards, Lambert among others.

Then on the back of that, today’s team was missing:

TT, Hopper, Prestia, Ross, Lynch, Balta, Gibcus, Grimes, Short (1/4) - that’s 9 of our best-23. Then some of the reinforcements who would’ve played such as Tresize and Bauer are injured also.

Take 8-9 of any teams best-23 out they are not going to win many if any games. They are going to get pantsed most weeks.

So we should prepare for plenty of short term pain as we have gone from one hand tied behind our backs to two.

2024 is about uncovering some hidden gems for the future by seeing them at senior level, which we’ve already done. Campbell, Miller as a KPD, Lefau, T Brown, McAuliffe and even Mansell and MRJ are showing ability at the level that I for one didn’t think they had.

We need to think only about 2025 onwards now… and here is the team Round 1 in 2026 with ages in brackets based on who I think will make the grade (I’ve removed anyone over 31yo even though Lynch, Broad and Dusty may still be alive and kicking):

B: Tresize (23yo). Miller (26). Vlastuin (31)
HB: T Brown (22). Gibcus (22). D Rioli (28)
C: Short (30). Hopper (29). Campbell (21)
HF: Baker (28). Balta (26). Bolton (27)
F: MRJ (23). Lefau (27). Mansell (25)
R: Nank (31). TT (28). McAuliffe (21)
IC: Ryan (25). Dow (24). Ross (25). Sonsie (23)
Graham (28)

Then there’s a few who’ve shown glimpses but still unknowns …:Clarke, Banks, Bauer, Coulthard, Green, Smith

And then there’s what is shaping as a very strong draft hand end of this year with our likely bottom-4 finish. So there’s likely to be a couple of high end picks in that 2026 R1 team pushing out a few who don’t kick on.

Of course no team is even full strength… but we don’t need to be too disheartened by losses in 2024 - 8-9 of our better players on the sidelines makes it nigh on impossible for us to win, simple as that.


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[TheOptimum18]

Every line has a deficiency and not just our midfield. The list was cooked and riddled with mostly young duds. The latter probably explains your argument bc Clarke couldn't nail a pick. You bank the best players with your picks that are available. Again you are thinking short sighted as this list isn’t or was never going to win another flag. We needed to be planning for five seasons away and now it’s seven.

So signing 25 year old players are "short sighted" decisions? Considering they can easily give you 7 to 8 years of football?

Again, unless you're prepared to live through some of the midfield performances we saw today, then be my guest. That's your prerogative.

But if today doesn't show you that TT and Hopper were necessary trades to be made (in what have been fairly even drafts beyond the first 5 to 10 picks), then you keep on thinking the way you do.

But I guarantee that if we made list decisions the way you've suggested, you'll be the first one to moan about not having mature bodies in the midfield, who are proven to be contested bulls, in games like today when the midfield personnel don't stack up with AFL quality midfielders (of which pretty much all bar 1 were on our list prior to trading in TT and Hopper).

 

[The_Kraken]

Sorry I meant KPF. Franklin and Roughead. lol.

Jack was our only KPF in 2017.

Yeah, we stole some top-flight recruits who were instrumental in 19 and 20. But we didn’t draft them as kids, we raided the Suns larder and took the cream. Which sort of puts to bed anyone arguing that we didn’t capitalise on being a destination club over those years.

Anyway, I’m way too drunk to be tapping away at this iPad, and work is only 8 hours away.

Take care and if I’ve pissed anyone off, you deserved it, you campaigner!

 

[guruisatiger]

Who’s the top 2-3 kids in the draft this year?

Jagga Smith
Finn O'Sullivan
Christian moraes
Sid draper
Josh smillie
Tom gross
Smith and gross trained at Richmond over the summer

 

[TigerImposter]

So signing 25 year old players are "short sighted" decisions? Considering they can easily give you 7 to 8 years of football?

Again, unless you're prepared to live through some of the midfield performances we saw today, then be my guest. That's your prerogative.

But if today doesn't show you that TT and Hopper were necessary trades to be made (in what have been fairly even drafts beyond the first 5 to 10 picks), then you keep on thinking the way you do.

But I guarantee that if we made list decisions the way you've suggested, you'll be the first one to moan about not having mature bodies in the midfield, who are proven to be contested bulls, in games like today when the midfield personnel don't stack up with AFL quality midfielders (of which pretty much all bar 1 were on our list prior to trading in TT and Hopper).

Now you’re starting with the insults. There’s no point getting two tractors if you have half a dozen of them with an old and shit list as it sets you back longer. As The Roar told you.:

You’re wasting your skills here and should be doing stand up .

 

[TigerImposter]

Jack was our only KPF in 2017.

Yeah, we stole some top-flight recruits who were instrumental in 19 and 20. But we didn’t draft them as kids, we raided the Suns larder and took the cream. Which sort of puts to bed anyone arguing that we didn’t capitalise on being a destination club over those years.

Anyway, I’m way too drunk to be tapping away at this iPad, and work is only 8 hours away.

Take care and if I’ve pissed anyone off, you deserved it, you campaigner!

I said that you do that when your kids are ready. Sober up for work tomorrow lol.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Noticed how GWS haven’t skipped a beat and agreeably improved since they left .
Foot skills and speed in the current and future game they have neither .
They just don’t have enough hurt factor with the footy and both aren’t great at best defensively .

Because GWS are stacked with talent as they have been for the last decade.

How well a team does after a player leaves is absolutely no indication if the player was good or not. Didn't Hawks win flags after Franklin left?

 

[TheOptimum18]

Now you’re starting with the insults. There’s no point getting two tractors if you have half a dozen of them with an old and s**t list as it sets you back longer. As The Roar is back told you.:

You’re wasting your skills here and should be doing stand up .

What insults? Please point them out for me.

So who on our list are comparable to what TT and Hopper brings? That's your analogy, no? Getting in two tractors when you have half a dozen of them? So please, educate us as to who on our list would bring what TT and Hopper bring such that midfield performances such as today's isn't a regular occurrence.

 

[Coach_Required]

Bit disappointed in McAuliffes game tbh. Not sure his foot was 100%.

I'm not surprised with his game though, he was up against mature bodied Kelly most of the game. Seemed like his game was the midfield equivalent of Lefau's first game where he looked at handpassing first everytime he got the ball.

Loved the tackle he laid on Reid who tried to shrug him off I think in the 3rd quarter that ended up resulting in that point review. Personally Reid didn't dispose of it properly but it was called play on

I think he will just get better for us as his confidence grows.

 

[TigerMoz1973]

It’s time lads. Let’s enhance the draft hand before Tassie start getting concessions.

Agree completely. Having all these injuries is enabling a lot of our kids to show what they've got and some of them are looking good. This season is about playing the kids and getting a great draft hand to set up the future.
That said. I still want to win every game

 

[TigerImposter]

It’s hilarious that we get to see today what life is like without Hopper and TT … a 39-point loss to one of the worst teams in the history of footy (no, that’s not an exaggeration) … and still people say it was an error getting them in.

It’s all well and good to say ‘go down the bottom and bank the high end picks’ … that’s what Norf have been doing for 5-years … Phillips pick 3, LDU pick 4, Thomas pick 8, JHF, Scheezel, Wardlaw, McErcher, Duursma. Plus AFL handouts galore. They might eventually get there as a team… but how’s life as a Kangas supporter been the last 5-years? Wins of 4, 3, 2, 3 and on their way to another 2-3.

And to top it off, that stupid club wins the last round of 2023 and costs themselves Harley Reid. Could a club be any more incompetent? Even when they win, they epically lose.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. We are rebuilding and have lost a dozen flag stars the last 3-4 years… Houli, Jack, Cotch, Rance, Astbury, Edwards, Lambert among others.

Then on the back of that, today’s team was missing:

TT, Hopper, Prestia, Ross, Lynch, Balta, Gibcus, Grimes, Short (1/4) - that’s 9 of our best-23. Then some of the reinforcements who would’ve played such as Tresize and Bauer are injured also.

Take 8-9 of any teams best-23 out they are not going to win many if any games. They are going to get pantsed most weeks.

So we should prepare for plenty of short term pain as we have gone from one hand tied behind our backs to two.

2024 is about uncovering some hidden gems for the future by seeing them at senior level, which we’ve already done. Campbell, Miller as a KPD, Lefau, T Brown, McAuliffe and even Mansell and MRJ are showing ability at the level that I for one didn’t think they had.

We need to think only about 2025 onwards now… and here is the team Round 1 in 2026 with ages in brackets based on who I think will make the grade (I’ve removed anyone over 31yo even though Lynch, Broad and Dusty may still be alive and kicking):

B: Tresize (23yo). Miller (26). Vlastuin (31)
HB: T Brown (22). Gibcus (22). D Rioli (28)
C: Short (30). Hopper (29). Campbell (21)
HF: Baker (28). Balta (26). Bolton (27)
F: MRJ (23). Lefau (27). Mansell (25)
R: Nank (31). TT (28). McAuliffe (21)
IC: Ryan (25). Dow (24). Ross (25). Sonsie (23)
Graham (28)

Then there’s a few who’ve shown glimpses but still unknowns …:Clarke, Banks, Bauer, Coulthard, Green, Smith

And then there’s what is shaping as a very strong draft hand end of this year with our likely bottom-4 finish. So there’s likely to be a couple of high end picks in that 2026 R1 team pushing out a few who don’t kick on.

Of course no team is even full strength… but we don’t need to be too disheartened by losses in 2024 - 8-9 of our better players on the sidelines makes it nigh on impossible for us to win, simple as that.


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Dude it’s quality not quantity. That list has a dozen or more potential crap players than quality and is closer to winning a wooden spoon than a flag. What planet are you on?

 

[Noidnadroj]

So signing 25 year old players are "short sighted" decisions? Considering they can easily give you 7 to 8 years of football?

Again, unless you're prepared to live through some of the midfield performances we saw today, then be my guest. That's your prerogative.

But if today doesn't show you that TT and Hopper were necessary trades to be made (in what have been fairly even drafts beyond the first 5 to 10 picks), then you keep on thinking the way you do.

But I guarantee that if we made list decisions the way you've suggested, you'll be the first one to moan about not having mature bodies in the midfield, who are proven to be contested bulls, in games like today when the midfield personnel don't stack up with AFL quality midfielders (of which pretty much all bar 1 were on our list prior to trading in TT and Hopper).

Spot on … let’s remove from Gold Coast:

Rowell (TT)
Milller (Hopper)
Another 2 x mids (Prestia and Ross)
B King (Lynch)
Lukocious (Balta)
Mac Andrew (Gibcus)
Powell (Short)

How do we think they’d be travelling?

Or remove:

Cripps (TT)
Cerra (Hopper)
Hewett (Prestia)
Acres (Ross)
Curnow (Lynch)
McKay (Balta)
McGovern (Gibcus)
Saad (Short)

The Blues would be 1-4, not 4-1.


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[Serenity_Now]

A overall positive this season has been the development of our forward I reckon. Last year we looked like we had no one in the front half capable of doing anything, now guys like Mansell, MJ and Campbell all look like promising half forwards and Lefau looks like he could be a handy player as well.

 

[TigerImposter]

What insults? Please point them out for me.

So who on our list are comparable to what TT and Hopper brings? That's your analogy, no? Getting in two tractors when you have half a dozen of them? So please, educate us as to who on our list would bring what TT and Hopper bring such that midfield performances such as today's isn't a regular occurrence.

But I guarantee that if we made list decisions the way you've suggested, you'll be the first one to moan about not having mature bodies in the midfield, who are proven to be contested bulls, in games like today when the midfield personnel don't stack up with AFL quality midfielders (of which pretty much all bar 1 were on our list prior to trading in TT and Hopper).

 

[TigerImposter]

Because GWS are stacked with talent as they have been for the last decade.

How well a team does after a player leaves is absolutely no indication if the player was good or not. Didn't Hawks win flags after Franklin left?

You’re now contradicting yourself. lol