Rockliff's possessions

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You appreciatehis disposals live a lot more than TV. On TV a basic short hand ball or kick looks like just that. Seeing the entire field you can see that in about 0.5 of a second he summed up the contest around him, igbored 2 or 3 other options and put the ball to the person in the best position. You can see him win the ball, calculate and pick the right option 8 or 9 times from 10. His disposal itslef isnt damaging, he plays well within his limitations, but that is a positive.

His running and support play is also elite. There would be many times a game when a kick to a contest turns into a short chip and uncontested mark to Rocky because he has gut run to put himself into position to give his team mate an option. It is why the bloke is untagable, he either gut runs and just out works them, and then goes inside a contest and wins hard ball and fires out a quick handball before he gets tackled. He also nullifies opponent clearances with strong tackling as well.

He doesnt have pace, so he will never be the bloke that takes a 15m run and delivers lace out to a forward. He cant play that role, but he can be an elite ball winning inside clearance mid come endurance support player. Oh and he has outstanding leadership qualities to boot.

The bloke is very damaging and has put himself up with the elite mids in the AFL this year.
 
Agree with chop above. Sometimes you just have to be close to the action appreciate Rocky's abilty. He would have made a glory years teams with out a doubt IMO. chops comment about him being slow is pertinent. In this day and age players are expected to be speedsters. Rocky is not and that, I think, aides him some what as he can lose his player and find space. He rarely makes a bad decision and when getting deep down and dirty around the stoppages has the abilty to not only win but after disposal move into space due to very good reading of the play.

I actually could not care about what other teams supporters think of him. Glad he is with us. To say that he is not a very good player is to be biased. I would add that his performance week in week out gives me great joy in that it proves that Scoop Hammo at the Curious Snail is proven to be with out a doubt the worst judge of a footballer that has ever graced this countries footy media.
 
Rocky is ELITE in traffic. A handpass to team-mate running down the wing, while on your hands and knee's, surrounded by opposition players is worth just as much as the player who receives the footy and delivers the lace-out pass. No doubt he will get a few cheap possessions but so do all of the other elite midfielders.
 

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His damaging alright. Probably the best decision maker in the league. Get's criticized for not kicking goals but when your racking up 40 disposals, 7 clearances and 8 tackles a game as well as starting the chains that result to goals, you don't need to be kicking them be be a damaging player.

Top 3 player in the competition.
 
TheBrownDog said:
Exactly, bob and I were marvelling at a few handballs today, he puts the handball where the teammate needs to go, even if they don't realise it themselves. His reading of the play is really something. He thinks about the next two moves, not just "see teammate, put handball in direction of teammate". If I was to sum up Rocky's game in two words it would be "he creates".

For someone who gets accused of stat padding, he plays an incredibly selfless, team oriented midfield game.

His score involvement stats would be off the charts if his teammates actually, y'know... scored.

Adding Rich to the midfield mix next year is going to be really exciting. Rocky dishing out to Rich, Hanley and Zorko... I get shivers thinking about it.
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Thanks TBD. This is the sort of insight I do not possess. Anyone in any sport who can see the next two moves to me is ahead of the game. I can see this in soccer but not so much in football.
 
I watched Rocky really closely for the second half, including a lot of time off the ball. Those blue boots made him easy to find in the packs!

My observations:

- he works constantly off the ball to get in such good positions which is one of the reasons he gets it so much. Lots of his possessions are not the flash type because he is busy trying to get us going from defence to attack.
- he is hammered in the midfield all day by opposing mids. While it may not be a hard tag always, he is quickly and heavily manned up on at every stoppage and has to fight his way past that to the contest. The fact he gets to as many contests as he does speaks of his qualities as an inside midfielder. He rarely fails to be at the contest when it comes to ground on his side of the ruck. He gets no easy possessions in there.
- his disposal from the inside is high quality more often than not. When he does have space he is handballing or kicking to real advantage of his team mates. It isn't always used well by team mates, but that will come with more development.
- I think Rockliff is missing Redden more than we might realise. That other solid defensive mid to take some pressure off him might make all the difference. Rocky at the moment is at virtually every stoppage he is in the field for. With the opportunity to be a little further outside from time to time I think he will be more damaging. Redden can do a similar job as Rockliff and provide some relief for him.
- Rockliff is our best player at disposal under pressure. He has the occasional clanger but he gets better and better at getting the ball out.
- He is the toughest, most persistent and most determined player in the team and possibly the league when the ball is on the ground and being contested. He fights every inch of the way and keeps making efforts until the ball is out of his zone. That can't be taught.
- his tackling is constantly putting the opposition under pressure. I think that because he is first and foremost a natural footballer, he looks for involvement in a hundred little ways defensively. He is an unlikely looking footy player but it is rare for the ball to be near him and not apply pressure and win more than his share.
- when the players around him develop further, Rockliff will be setting them up and his score involvements will be high. Only then will the doubters really be convinced.
 
TheBrownDog said:
Exactly, bob and I were marvelling at a few handballs today, he puts the handball where the teammate needs to go, even if they don't realise it themselves. His reading of the play is really something. He thinks about the next two moves, not just "see teammate, put handball in direction of teammate". If I was to sum up Rocky's game in two words it would be "he creates".

For someone who gets accused of stat padding, he plays an incredibly selfless, team oriented midfield game.

His score involvement stats would be off the charts if his teammates actually, y'know... scored.

Adding Rich to the midfield mix next year is going to be really exciting. Rocky dishing out to Rich, Hanley and Zorko... I get shivers thinking about it.
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Yeah, Rocky has a Black-esque ability to deliver to advantage. He uses his disposal to correct a teammate's positioning.

There was a classic example of this today on the HFF close to the boundary line. Squizzy was running towards the boundary, only a couple of metres away from it, maybe 5m ahead of Rocky. Rocky gathered the pill. With only a split second to dispose of it, most players would've hit Squizzy on the chest with a short handball, which would've seen Squizzy run the ball over the boundary with a couple of dockers close on his tail. Instead Rocky very deliberately looped the ball over and behind Squizzy's head, demanding that he pivot almost 180 on the spot and run directly towards goal and away from his opponents with a heap of open paddock in front of him. Play created, with barely a pause. This happens countless times a game, often under intense pressure, and it is exquisite to watch.
 
Rockliff had 37 effective disposals against Fremantle. 45 in total. Just his effective possessions alone was better than nearly everyone else's total possessions.

He is second in total possessions for the season but has played three less games than Priddis who's first. First in average disposals, ahead of Ablett. First in average tackles, miles ahead in Dreamteam (arbitrary I know but a measure of game involvement nevertheless.)

Whichever way you spin the numbers it comes back to Rockliff being among the very best. The fact that he has leadership qualities is something valuable that can't be measured.
 

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alscotoz2 said:
Thanks TBD. This is the sort of insight I do not possess. Anyone in any sport who can see the next two moves to me is ahead of the game. I can see this in soccer but not so much in football.
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I know where you're coming from. It took me a while to catch on to the fuss about Black.
Mr Ripper said:
We'd appreciate his work a lot more if he had more class on his outside.
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And that's a lot of it. In and under clearance stuff, that whatboutbob gave an example of, putting it to the right spot, but also just getting it.
I notice the terrible disposals at times, the inability to hit a target. This can be seen with an inexperienced forward line as well. Mids get blamed for not hitting targets or kicking "who to", but players have an obligation to become a target. Often the ball is put to the right place, but the target doesn't get there or recognise "the right place".
Even without hitting every target outside though, the sheer weight of numbers more than covers the occasional miss.
 
AFLQLD said:
Rockliff had 37 effective disposals against Fremantle. 45 in total. Just his effective possessions alone was better than nearly everyone else's total possessions.

He is second in total possessions for the season but has played three less games than Priddis who's first. First in average disposals, ahead of Ablett. First in average tackles, miles ahead in Dreamteam (arbitrary I know but a measure of game involvement nevertheless.)

Whichever way you spin the numbers it comes back to Rockliff being among the very best. The fact that he has leadership qualities is something valuable that can't be measured.
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I assume effective means it went to our players? Is it possible those arguing he is not damaging mean where he is getting those possessions in areas that are defensive? FWIW, the responses I have received have educated me that he is a PLAYA. I'm still confused why some of the 'experts' see him getting 'cheap' stats.
 
Some posters took the thread the wrong way. A joke thread and OP doubting Rocky and they should join the other idiots? hmm... I think OP wasn't saying Rocky isn't damaging they just wanted others perspective.

On Rocky I agree with everyone. Gun ball magnet that uses it to draw others into the game and let them do the damage. Rocky even said himself on a few occasions that he just doesn't have the tools to run down the wing taking bounces and spearing into f50. Also agree that he needs class on the outside to make him look good. I like Zorko and he is one of our most damaging purely from his speed and straight line running, but jeez he can turn it over a lot. If he and others manages to improve their decision making and disposals then Rocky could sneak forward and snag a few without the risk of a turnover and his opponent running off with ball in hand.
 
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SizeMatters said:
Some posters took the thread the wrong way. A joke thread and OP doubting Rocky and they should join the other idiots? hmm... I think OP wasn't saying Rocky isn't damaging he they just wanted others perspective.

On Rocky I agree with everyone. Gun ball magnet that uses it to draw others into the game and let them do the damage. Rocky even said himself on a few occasions that he just doesn't have the tools to run down the wing taking bounces and spearing into f50. Also agree that he needs class on the outside to make him look good. I like Zorko and he is one of our most damaging purely from his speed and straight line running, but jeez he can turn it over a lot. If he and others manages to improve their decision making and disposals then Rocky could sneak forward and snag a few without the risk of a turnover and his opponent running off with ball in hand.
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I offered no opinion and you're right I did want others perspectives.
 
whatboutbob said:
Yeah, Rocky has a Black-esque ability to deliver to advantage. He uses his disposal to correct a teammate's positioning.

There was a classic example of this today on the HFF close to the boundary line. Squizzy was running towards the boundary, only a couple of metres away from it, maybe 5m ahead of Rocky. Rocky gathered the pill. With only a split second to dispose of it, most players would've hit Squizzy on the chest with a short handball, which would've seen Squizzy run the ball over the boundary with a couple of dockers close on his tail. Instead Rocky very deliberately looped the ball over and behind Squizzy's head, demanding that he pivot almost 180 on the spot and run directly towards goal and away from his opponents with a heap of open paddock in front of him. Play created, with barely a pause. This happens countless times a game, often under intense pressure, and it is exquisite to watch.
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This 100%. Remember another time today where he released Beams down the boundary with a similar over the head hand pass. Looked like we were trapped on the line, but rocky just saw the space and sent him into it.
 
SizeMatters said:
I like Zorko and he is one of our most damaging purely from his speed and straight line running, but jeez he can turn it over a lot.
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Which is why I thought he was only ok today despite collecting a career high possession count today if I'm not mistaken. You can't knock a lot about Zorko's game, because he is one of only a few genuine line breakers we have, however his disposal does let him down a fair bit. Improve that over the off-season and he will be amazing. You can't fault his attitude and ability to get better each year, but if he can temper how hard he disposes of it, then he'll go to another level.

As for Rockliff, not sure how anyone can question much about his game at all. I hate the word elite, but Rocky personifies the term.
 
Big Sauce 21 said:
pisses me off when flogs on the the other boards say they're nothing touches. 45 touches 82% efficiency. nothing wrong with that
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Flogs will be flogs. Little do they know just how hard Rockliff works around the ground, while most other mids just float forward when they're tired/trying to break the tag.
 
The question itself is absurd. Rocky is a very damaging ball user, particularly considering that he is usually on the losing team, so he has more pressure and less opportunity than say Jordan Lewis.

Supercoach points are probably the best single measure of the impact of a player (for mids and forwards at least). This year's ranking for supercoach points per game is:

Rk Player Team Gm Stat
1 G. Ablett Suns 15 136.7
2 T. Rockliff Lions 18 132.0
3 S. Pendlebury Magpies 20 126.2
4 N. Fyfe Dockers 18 122.3
5 J. Selwood Cats 21 118.3
6 D. Beams Magpies 19 115.5
7 S. Mumford Giants 16 115.0
8 S. Jacobs Crows 21 114.7
9 J. Kennedy Swans 20 113.9
10 R. Sloane Crows 21 113.5


I think that list is pretty accurate and rocky has indeed been that good
 
If he played in Melbourne and was dishing it out to experienced A graders he would be praised. The fact that he's often giving it off to inexperienced kids and that the team overall isn't doing well means that people think he must be having no impact with such immense numbers.
 
Thedeftouch said:
The question itself is absurd. Rocky is a very damaging ball user, particularly considering that he is usually on the losing team, so he has more pressure and less opportunity than say Jordan Lewis.

Supercoach points are probably the best single measure of the impact of a player (for mids and forwards at least). This year's ranking for supercoach points per game is:

Rk Player Team Gm Stat
1 G. Ablett Suns 15 136.7
2 T. Rockliff Lions 18 132.0
3 S. Pendlebury Magpies 20 126.2
4 N. Fyfe Dockers 18 122.3
5 J. Selwood Cats 21 118.3
6 D. Beams Magpies 19 115.5
7 S. Mumford Giants 16 115.0
8 S. Jacobs Crows 21 114.7
9 J. Kennedy Swans 20 113.9
10 R. Sloane Crows 21 113.5


I think that list is pretty accurate and rocky has indeed been that good
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I wouldn't say the best single measure, because of the scaling that goes on during and after matches, but it's a good representation of how well someone played. You can't fault his midfield work this season, you just simply can't.
 

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Rockliff's possessions

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