Rockliff's possessions

[POBT]

Incredibly, he started the season at about 30/1, on the back of polling 19 votes in the last eight games of 2013.

Probably reflective of the fact that we weren't expected to win many games.

 

[POBT]

On Rocky v Hanley in terms of kicking, Hanley's made a lot of errors with his kicking this year. Hanley might hit you on the chest from 50 metres but he has also shown he might completely scrub the kick and turn it over.

Rocky is definitely a more reliable kick IMO.

You need both in your side though. Like Hawthorn with Mitchell and Lewis who are good, reliable kicks and guys like Suckling who can really break an oppositiion up with their kicking, even if their error rate is higher.

 

[Cobbler]

Hey guys I was directed here by a Brisbane bloke.

I mentioned on the team of the week thread about Rockliff.

I couldn't believe he had 45 touches, so made the comment that surely sheer numbers doesn't just get you into the team of the week.

It was by no means a knock on him, I just didn't think he had an impact or was deserving of a place in the best 22 players of the week. Not when you lose by 58 and there are others who didn't get a birth. Only 2 inside 50's also.

Anyway I don't see many Brisbane games, but if someone was to tell me Rockliff had it 45 times, I'd have imagined a different outcome to our game.

If I could make a link to a Fremantle player, Barlow? Hard working midfielder, gets it plenty (Yes I know Rockliff gets it a stack more then Barlow) but doesn't receive the plaudits of say a Fyfe, Walters, Hill, Mundy etc because he extracts to others? You probably have Zorko, Hanley etc

Is that a fair comparison in player types within a team? Barlow often goes unnoticed at games because he isn't flashy etc, but does have a weird running style!

Lastly would he feature in your team of the week or not?

 

[Toffee Lion]

Hey guys I was directed here by a Brisbane bloke.

I mentioned on the team of the week thread about Rockliff.

I couldn't believe he had 45 touches, so made the comment that surely sheer numbers doesn't just get you into the team of the week.

It was by no means a knock on him, I just didn't think he had an impact or was deserving of a place in the best 22 players of the week. Not when you lose by 58 and there are others who didn't get a birth. Only 2 inside 50's also.

Anyway I don't see many Brisbane games, but if someone was to tell me Rockliff had it 45 times, I'd have imagined a different outcome to our game.

If I could make a link to a Fremantle player, Barlow? Hard working midfielder, gets it plenty (Yes I know Rockliff gets it a stack more then Barlow) but doesn't receive the plaudits of say a Fyfe, Walters, Hill, Mundy etc because he extracts to others? You probably have Zorko, Hanley etc

Is that a fair comparison in player types within a team? Barlow often goes unnoticed at games because he isn't flashy etc, but does have a weird running style!

Lastly would he feature in your team of the week or not?

The way I look at it, that's 45 times we have the ball and 45 times we have a chance to get it to our dangerous players (Zorko, Hanley, Rich if he weren't injured)

Some will say he isn't damaging etc but Simon Black was never really that dangerous, got the ball and used it well - similar to Rocky.

No one had an issue when he was getting 25-30 and now that he has bumped it up to 40+ consistently, it suddenly isn't effective anymore apparently.

At the end of the day, would you rather Barlow get 45 touches on a regular basis and feed it out to Fyfe, Walters and Ballas? Or only get it 20-30 times and do the exact same thing?

Also to note, 37/45 were effective passes from Rocky.

 

[Cobbler]

The way I look at it, that's 45 times we have the ball and 45 times we have a chance to get it to our dangerous players (Zorko, Hanley, Rich if he weren't injured)

Some will say he isn't damaging etc but Simon Black was never really that dangerous, got the ball and used it well - similar to Rocky.

No one had an issue when he was getting 25-30 and now that he has bumped it up to 40+ consistently, it suddenly isn't effective anymore apparently.

At the end of the day, would you rather Barlow get 45 touches on a regular basis and feed it out to Fyfe, Walters and Ballas? Or only get it 20-30 times and do the exact same thing?

Also to note, 37/45 were effective passes from Rocky.

Yeah again the 37/45 can be misleading. deBoer hit 16/18 according to the disposal accuracy, but many where given to people in poor positions, wrong options or no risk options that he nearly stuffed i.e. 15m chips. I'm by no means saying Rockliff is poor with his disposal, rather that the disposal efficiency rating isn't a great measurement. Stephen Hill as example 65% from his 26 touches but I'm sure you'd all agree he looks silky with ball in hand and you'd rather him then deBoer disposing of the ball.

I haven't watched the game again, but there was a crazy amount of over handballing early by Brisbane. I mean they hit targets, but placed others under pressure and there was many 1-2's going on.

He also had 13 contested possessions. Not a huge percentage from his 45.

I don't think Barlow will ever get 45, I just think we have greater depth in our midfield and hence why someone like Rockliff gets plenty of it. Not a dig and sorry if that offends, I mean 45 is a great effort regardless of how your team operates, I'm just not sold on that making you best 22 for the week.

I didn't personally see him as even the best 2 on the ground or even your best player!

 

[QLDatHEART]

Yeah again the 37/45 can be misleading. deBoer hit 16/18 according to the disposal accuracy, but many where given to people in poor positions, wrong options or no risk options that he nearly stuffed i.e. 15m chips. I'm by no means saying Rockliff is poor with his disposal, rather that the disposal efficiency rating isn't a great measurement. Stephen Hill as example 65% from his 26 touches but I'm sure you'd all agree he looks silky with ball in hand and you'd rather him then deBoer disposing of the ball.

I haven't watched the game again, but there was a crazy amount of over handballing early by Brisbane. I mean they hit targets, but placed others under pressure and there was many 1-2's going on.

He also had 13 contested possessions. Not a huge percentage from his 45.

I don't think Barlow will ever get 45, I just think we have greater depth in our midfield and hence why someone like Rockliff gets plenty of it. Not a dig and sorry if that offends, I mean 45 is a great effort regardless of how your team operates, I'm just not sold on that making you best 22 for the week.

I didn't personally see him as even the best 2 on the ground or even your best player!

Your post is just annoying. Watch the game again and watch what Rocky does closely. He is a big reason we didn't lose by a 100+ points.

He isn't a visual standout like a Hanley or Fyfe etc but without him the opposition would have it atleast 20-30 times more per game over a typical mid getting it 20 times.

Put a little more effort researching your theories before coming onto another teams board and taking aim at their best player (Sorry Patfullkez.. he is) and you wont come across like an ill informed supporter shooting from the hip

 

[Cobbler]

Your post is just annoying. Watch the game again and watch what Rocky does closely. He is a big reason we didn't lose by a 100+ points.

He isn't a visual standout like a Hanley or Fyfe etc but without him the opposition would have it atleast 20-30 times more per game than with a typical mid getting it 20 times.

Put a little more effort I into your theories before coming onto another teams board and you wont come across as a young kid talking out of his arse.

No worries sorry to offend.

Wasn't a theory, was an observation. Plus my theory was actually stated by you where you said he isn't a visual standout like Hanley (who was tagged and Ross usually tags the most destructive player) or Fyfe etc. I made the exact same comment about Barlow.

I won't watch it again, but as I said watching it the first time he didn't stand out at all. Obviously if I watch for him the second time he will stand out.

From memory Brisbane had about 15 kicks to over 50 handballs. I also remember Rockliff having 1 kick and 10 handballs at one stage. So you'd hope he could hit a target with a handball, I might watch again actually just to see if he was the one handballing them out of trouble or into it.

 

[QLDatHEART]

I might watch again actually just to see if he was the one handballing them out of trouble or into it.

If you don't know the answer to this then you're shooting from the hip.

Bye

 

[Elixuh]

I couldn't believe he had 45 touches, so made the comment that surely sheer numbers doesn't just get you into the team of the week.

It was by no means a knock on him, I just didn't think he had an impact or was deserving of a place in the best 22 players of the week. Not when you lose by 58 and there are others who didn't get a birth. Only 2 inside 50's also.

Anyway I don't see many Brisbane games, but if someone was to tell me Rockliff had it 45 times, I'd have imagined a different outcome to our game.

If I could make a link to a Fremantle player, Barlow? Hard working midfielder, gets it plenty (Yes I know Rockliff gets it a stack more then Barlow) but doesn't receive the plaudits of say a Fyfe, Walters, Hill, Mundy etc because he extracts to others? You probably have Zorko, Hanley etc

Thanks for the post its good to hear what other supporters think.

I think what I've highlighted is part of the problem. We have such an inexperienced team compared to the likes of Freo (for instance) and are still developing which means we can't always compete with the top echelon of teams (and will therefore suffer losses). So when Rocky is playing as well as he is people seem to expect naturally that the team should be winning or be only losing by small margins - its just not the case. I actually was listening to an interview of two coaches this season (might have been Lyon and someone else) and both agreed that in the modern game if just 1 player is out of position it can lead to a breakdown of structures as well as being hurt on the scoreboard. So I think it's unfair to expect 1 player to be the difference between a 50 point loss and a win.

As a side note I think having Ablett as a benchmark (which I think a lot of people do) is OK but I think if you were plotting him on a graph with other players (in the complete and overall sense) he would be a bit of an outlier and not really reflective of the average AFL player (regardless of whether they're considered 'A grade', 'B grade' or w/e).

 

[Elixuh]

Plus my theory was actually stated by you where you said he isn't a visual standout like Hanley (who was tagged and Ross usually tags the most destructive player) or Fyfe etc.

Leigh Matthews said that about Black so he has pretty good standing there

 

[a mayes ing]

Yeah again the 37/45 can be misleading. deBoer hit 16/18 according to the disposal accuracy, but many where given to people in poor positions, wrong options or no risk options that he nearly stuffed i.e. 15m chips. I'm by no means saying Rockliff is poor with his disposal, rather that the disposal efficiency rating isn't a great measurement. Stephen Hill as example 65% from his 26 touches but I'm sure you'd all agree he looks silky with ball in hand and you'd rather him then deBoer disposing of the ball.

I haven't watched the game again, but there was a crazy amount of over handballing early by Brisbane. I mean they hit targets, but placed others under pressure and there was many 1-2's going on.

He also had 13 contested possessions. Not a huge percentage from his 45.

I don't think Barlow will ever get 45, I just think we have greater depth in our midfield and hence why someone like Rockliff gets plenty of it. Not a dig and sorry if that offends, I mean 45 is a great effort regardless of how your team operates, I'm just not sold on that making you best 22 for the week.

I didn't personally see him as even the best 2 on the ground or even your best player!

Hey, thanks for posting.
The reason why we had to handball a lot is because that is part of our gameplan. To handball our way out and go through the middle (very simplistic view of the gameplan and difinitly more to it but that is part of it).

Your team's pressure and corralling is always going to be difficult for a team (look at Hawthorn last week) and even more so when our team is so ridiculously young. Many of our handballs were going to players under pressure as the young players just wanted to get rid of it quickly before getting tackled, l saw on numerous occassions that Rocky could have handballed to a player but noticed he would have been in immediate pressure so he skipped that option andh chose someone else under less pressure.

You can't really compare Rocky/De Boer to a Hill tho as they are different types of players. Of course Hill is going to look flashy and sily because he is an outside player.

The thing is, that if we had our full team, which includes Redden and Rich, then Rocky probably wouldnt be getting 45 disposals and have to carry the midfield every week. Your team had 13 100 gamers, iirc. If our team wasn't so young, then we would be winning more games and Rocky wouldnt have to play in the guts 100%of the time. He could drift forward and kick goals, and if he does kick 1, 2 goals and game then everyone would be saying he is in Abblett level (might be overstating)

If you did watch the game again and really focussed on Rockliff the whole game, then you would see what we are talking about, but he does get undervalued by a lot of people out there because a) he is from Brisbane and b) they don't realise how much work he does in such a young team. If he was bald, people would notice him a lot more.

 

[Cobbler]

Your post is just annoying. Watch the game again and watch what Rocky does closely. He is a big reason we didn't lose by a 100+ points.

He isn't a visual standout like a Hanley or Fyfe etc but without him the opposition would have it atleast 20-30 times more per game over a typical mid getting it 20 times.

Put a little more effort researching your theories before coming onto another teams board and taking aim at their best player (Sorry Patfullkez.. he is) and you wont come across like an ill informed supporter shooting from the hip

Just watched first 7 minutes.
Has 7 handballs in this time, plus takes a dive. One of his handballs is commentated as being thrown out.
One handball releases the lions forward for their first shot on goal. The other 6 hit their target but only one releases a player to kick from his hand pass, the others force others to hand pass and then get tackled. Not the greatest snap shot as the commentators do say 'The Lions have had 4 kicks and 3 of those haven't hit the target'

But from this snapshot he hasn't done anything. 7 out of 7 hit a target but only 1 hand pass that creates anything. As I said not the best place to take a sample from as we were all over you early.

Also was open on a couple opportunities to kick, but there was obviously clear instructions early to try and run, handball and takes risks.

 

[a mayes ing]

Just watched first 7 minutes.
Has 7 handballs in this time, plus takes a dive. One of his handballs is commentated as being thrown out.
One handball releases the lions forward for their first shot on goal. The other 6 hit their target but only one releases a player to kick from his hand pass, the others force others to hand pass and then get tackled. Not the greatest snap shot as the commentators do say 'The Lions have had 4 kicks and 3 of those haven't hit the target'

But from this snapshot he hasn't done anything. 7 out of 7 hit a target but only 1 hand pass that creates anything. As I said not the best place to take a sample from as we were all over you early.

Also was open on a couple opportunities to kick, but there was obviously clear instructions early to try and run, handball and takes risks.

Does this say more about Rockliff or about his teammates. He got the ball to them and they didn't know what to do/got tackled too fast. Good by your team but our's was too young to handle the pressure. The fact that he got the ball from a stoppage to a teammate instead of your clearance guys means we have more of an opportunity to create something but that takes games and experience, something we don't have yet.

 

[Elixuh]

Does this say more about Rockliff or about his teammates.

I think when Rocky is playing this well that kind of nails it on the head. Says more about where the team is at in its development.

 

[Cobbler]

Hey, thanks for posting.
The reason why we had to handball a lot is because that is part of our gameplan. To handball our way out and go through the middle (very simplistic view of the gameplan and difinitly more to it but that is part of it).

Your team's pressure and corralling is always going to be difficult for a team (look at Hawthorn last week) and even more so when our team is so ridiculously young. Many of our handballs were going to players under pressure as the young players just wanted to get rid of it quickly before getting tackled, l saw on numerous occassions that Rocky could have handballed to a player but noticed he would have been in immediate pressure so he skipped that option andh chose someone else under less pressure.

You can't really compare Rocky/De Boer to a Hill tho as they are different types of players. Of course Hill is going to look flashy and sily because he is an outside player.

The thing is, that if we had our full team, which includes Redden and Rich, then Rocky probably wouldnt be getting 45 disposals and have to carry the midfield every week. Your team had 13 100 gamers, iirc. If our team wasn't so young, then we would be winning more games and Rocky wouldnt have to play in the guts 100%of the time. He could drift forward and kick goals, and if he does kick 1, 2 goals and game then everyone would be saying he is in Abblett level (might be overstating)

If you did watch the game again and really focussed on Rockliff the whole game, then you would see what we are talking about, but he does get undervalued by a lot of people out there because a) he is from Brisbane and b) they don't realise how much work he does in such a young team. If he was bald, people would notice him a lot more.

Agree with this. He is just a run of the mill looking bloke, hence my comment about Barlow standing out slightly more because of his weird running style, although I'd consider them similar players.

Definitely noticed Zorko more and thought he was your better player because he did seem to take the game on more, but also he stands out a bit more. Again I may be wrong, was just my observation. Was really surprised, as in amazed that Rockliff had 45 touches.

Also correct in that because he plays for Brisbane doesn't get noticed. Me, for example see the impressive stats, know who he is, but will rarely watch a Brisbane game.

I guess when your team develops, a player like Rockliff will receive greater acknowledgement because the work he does will be finished off.

Hard to criticise him when he gets it to players who then turn it over and that again was never my intention.

 

[Cobbler]

Does this say more about Rockliff or about his teammates. He got the ball to them and they didn't know what to do/got tackled too fast. Good by your team but our's was too young to handle the pressure. The fact that he got the ball from a stoppage to a teammate instead of your clearance guys means we have more of an opportunity to create something but that takes games and experience, something we don't have yet.

Not many were from a stoppage. Was just handball work where he was involved, he probably had one of these as a genuine clearance.

Again you're right about the other players. Very early he releases a great handball to a person running through the middle, who should've been looking to kick inside 50m but he then also handballs to another player and bang, tackled.

The hand ball game would be the complete opposite of how I would try to break Freo down, invites pressure and we'll just swarm. Kick out of the swarm to contests or at least kick for a mark to stop the pressure, but that's another topic.

Anyway best of luck with it, cheers.

 

[a mayes ing]

Agree with this. He is just a run of the mill looking bloke, hence my comment about Barlow standing out slightly more because of his weird running style, although I'd consider them similar players.

Definitely noticed Zorko more and thought he was your better player because he did seem to take the game on more, but also he stands out a bit more. Again I may be wrong, was just my observation. Was really surprised, as in amazed that Rockliff had 45 touches.

Also correct in that because he plays for Brisbane doesn't get noticed. Me, for example see the impressive stats, know who he is, but will rarely watch a Brisbane game.

I guess when your team develops, a player like Rockliff will receive greater acknowledgement because the work he does will be finished off.

Hard to criticise him when he gets it to players who then turn it over and that again was never my intention.

But again, you would notice him more as Zorko is an outside player, not to mention he is a little midget who runs like the wind whenever he gets the ball. I know some people say "But l didn't notice him as much as hanley". But l think it is unfair in saying that (not saying it is you), as they play 2 completely different roles. For me, it is like saying "Who is the better player: Cloke or Grundy". You can't really compare as they play different roles.
Rockliff summed it up perfectly when he said that he was never going to be the guy that takes 2 bounces and runs down the wing.

Nah no offence taken mate, not on my part anyway.

 

[a mayes ing]

Not many were from a stoppage. Was just handball work where he was involved, he probably had one of these as a genuine clearance.

Again you're right about the other players. Very early he releases a great handball to a person running through the middle, who should've been looking to kick inside 50m but he then also handballs to another player and bang, tackled.

The hand ball game would be the complete opposite of how I would try to break Freo down, invites pressure and we'll just swarm. Kick out of the swarm to contests or at least kick for a mark to stop the pressure, but that's another topic.

Anyway best of luck with it, cheers.

We tried that last time at Pattersons when it was raining. Our player would get the ball, the few times we had, and rush kick it long down the boundary, as he noticed the pressure coming at him. The ball would then be gathered b your zone defence easily and kicked back into the f50. Not sure how to play against you.

 

[Cobbler]

We tried that last time at Pattersons when it was raining. Our player would get the ball, the few times we had, and rush kick it long down the boundary, as he noticed the pressure coming at him. The ball would then be gathered b your zone defence easily and kicked back into the f50. Not sure how to play against you.

100% need to kick quickly or handball with run as opposed to hand balling to free up a player. It seemed you guys were more in the hand balling to try and free up a player, but the squeeze still comes and even when you free up a player he looks ahead and we have our zone set.

If I was the opposition coach I'd say use the hand ball to free up a player, but then that player needs to take a risk and hit someone through the middle or a risky switch. Once you do switch you have to move quick.

Easier said then done, because if you're off we just kill teams on their turnovers. Obviously why we're going ok because it's a hard structure to defeat, but also why it's not great against the tops sides because they do have the skill levels to defeat us.

Think Port may find us out this week because they do play with gamble and run.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Hope you enjoyed watching your second Brisbane game of the year.

As an aside, if we are completely dismissing the impact of players on account of their side being thrashed, how useless was Gary Ablett in his first 3 years at the Suns!

 

[QLDatHEART]

Just watched first 7 minutes.
Has 7 handballs in this time, plus takes a dive. One of his handballs is commentated as being thrown out.
One handball releases the lions forward for their first shot on goal. The other 6 hit their target but only one releases a player to kick from his hand pass, the others force others to hand pass and then get tackled. Not the greatest snap shot as the commentators do say 'The Lions have had 4 kicks and 3 of those haven't hit the target'

But from this snapshot he hasn't done anything. 7 out of 7 hit a target but only 1 hand pass that creates anything. As I said not the best place to take a sample from as we were all over you early.

Also was open on a couple opportunities to kick, but there was obviously clear instructions early to try and run, handball and takes risks.

7 minutes of one game?
I take everything back
Youre an authority on Rocky and his value to our team

 

[Haso]

Just watched first 7 minutes.
Has 7 handballs in this time, plus takes a dive. One of his handballs is commentated as being thrown out.
One handball releases the lions forward for their first shot on goal. The other 6 hit their target but only one releases a player to kick from his hand pass, the others force others to hand pass and then get tackled. Not the greatest snap shot as the commentators do say 'The Lions have had 4 kicks and 3 of those haven't hit the target'

But from this snapshot he hasn't done anything. 7 out of 7 hit a target but only 1 hand pass that creates anything. As I said not the best place to take a sample from as we were all over you early.

Also was open on a couple opportunities to kick, but there was obviously clear instructions early to try and run, handball and takes risks.

Rocky is definitely not known for his fitness and working into a game. It's the first 7 minutes or nothing for him. Thanks for the insight into our player.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Lol they're coming in here now. Spreading like a pack of zombies

 

[dlanod]

7 minutes of one game?
I take everything back
Youre an authority on Rocky and his value to our team

Rocky is definitely not known for his fitness and working into a game. It's the first 7 minutes or nothing for him. Thanks for the insight into our player.

Is there any real point to posting brief antagonistic posts in response long well-thought out posts? You may not agree with the conclusions but you'd be better off debating those on their merits rather than just snarking.

 

[Haso]

Is there any real point to posting brief antagonistic posts in response long well-thought out posts? You may not agree with the conclusions but you'd be better off debating those on their merits rather than just snarking.

I don't believe that it was a well thought out post.