ROK talks hit a hurdle - SEN

[speedy]

What a complete load of garbage.

This is trade week. Hawthorn knew the terms 4 days ago and nothing has changed.

With conduct characteristic of a used car tyre kicker they have systematically wasted everyone's time in the most unprofessional childish manner....and now their fans want to make excuses for it.

Now OKeefe who genuinely wants and needs to get to a Melbourne club has been screwed around...after doing the right thing and nominating a club, compromising on $, and after Sydney didnt even ask for much at all. FOUR WASTED DAYS.

Not wanting a player is one thing...but screwing them around so that the player cant achieve his goals is just the biggest disgrace u can dish out to them.

Tyre kickers playing fantasy tycoon games wasting everyone's time and effort...plus screwing with an A graders need to get back to Melbourne.

A very simple process of "yes i want him at that price" or "no i dont want him at that price" has been complicated by moronic game and role playing for 4 bloody days for nothing...to simply exclude other clubs and hopefully draw a bargain basement deal at the last minute.

This Pelchen moron is just as likely to come out today and show last minute interest again..thinking he's going to do the Donald Trump last minute pounce for the hard bargain.

Its no wonder trade week is a joke with unprofessionalism like that on display.

As if the world wasnt expecting this junk from that goose.

Your comments are right on the money.

I hate clubs that get a player to commit to them, then they think they have the upper hand and play hard ball with the trade. In the end all they do is stuff up the player, the other team and the whole trade week.

Collingwood have a bad rep for doing it and the hawks are going down the same path. Pretty soon no player or club are going to touch the hawks during trade week.

 

[rangermcdee]

What a complete load of garbage.

This is trade week. Hawthorn knew the terms 4 days ago and nothing has changed.

With conduct characteristic of a used car tyre kicker they have systematically wasted everyone's time in the most unprofessional childish manner....and now their fans want to make excuses for it.

Now OKeefe who genuinely wants and needs to get to a Melbourne club has been screwed around...after doing the right thing and nominating a club, compromising on $, and after Sydney didnt even ask for much at all. FOUR WASTED DAYS.

Not wanting a player is one thing...but screwing them around so that the player cant achieve his goals is just the biggest disgrace u can dish out to them.

Tyre kickers playing fantasy tycoon games wasting everyone's time and effort...plus screwing with an A graders need to get back to Melbourne.

A very simple process of "yes i want him at that price" or "no i dont want him at that price" has been complicated by moronic game and role playing for 4 bloody days for nothing...to simply exclude other clubs and hopefully draw a bargain basement deal at the last minute.

This Pelchen moron is just as likely to come out today and show last minute interest again..thinking he's going to do the Donald Trump last minute pounce for the hard bargain.

Its no wonder trade week is a joke with unprofessionalism like that on display.

As if the world wasnt expecting this junk from that goose.

All of this is true, but what was stoping Sydney from standing up and leaving the table after two days of negotiation? Surely they could of seen where this was going after a complete stalemate on day 2, afterall Hawthorn are far from the easiest team to negotiate trades with (even the most one eyed hawthon fan can see this), history has shown that Pelchen and co are only interested in doing the best deal for the HFC, if that means putting opponents noses out of joint, so be it, It might cause him grief if and when he decids to move on, but what do we care? When that day comes he will no longer be a HFC person and we got what we thought we needed from him at the time.

Nothing was stopping them from saying "Guys, the deal is X and we will not budge, we have a mandate from the club to offer only this, if you are not interested we walk." Hawthorn say no, Sydney say thanks for your time, but we have other clubs we can speak to about ROK, instead they sat with Hawthorn for two more days and got nowhere, leaving them with one shortened day to either re-consider the offer from Hawthorn, or scramble a trade with Carlton. The latter seeming more likely and I would feel pretty confortable betting that Sydney will not get thier needed/wanted first rounder from Carlton. The fact that Carlton have entered the deal at such a late venture and is apparently being entertained by Sydney implies that ROK is in fact quite sold on the idea of leaving Sydney for a Melbourne club. Will he walk into the lottery that is the PSD? Who knows, but I am starting to think he will not be up north next year, just depends on how he migrates South is all to be seen I think.

We are also getting reports from news services that ROK never said anything about Hawthorn, in fact Hawthorn was never mentioned as a preferred desination. What were the club doing in speaking with them in that case, after all ROK is a highly respected A grader who deserves better and should be shopped around to his preferred clubs rather than being jerked around by football adminstrators trying to screw each other over.

 

[HFC082]

Your comments are right on the money.

Another satisfied customer.

 

[Tedeski]

Daily Telegraph article says ROK was never interested in going to Hawthorn, wants to go to Carlton but Carlton havent yet sat down at the table with Sydney to do the deal. Roos on record in the Telegraph saying this.

Article mentions a swap of 1st round picks (Syd get 6, Carl get 12) and a young player from the blues.

Heres another version of events!

"[ Without warning yesterday, the Hawks withdrew their first draft pick (No. 16) as a bargaining chip, citing a change of philosophy and the need to get involved in the draft before the second round and pick 34.
Outsiders suggested they were reacting to player disquiet about O'Keefe coming in on money that would put him at or near the top of player salaries at the premiership club.
The Hawks are known to have addressed the money issue with the group via captain Mitchell and vice-captain Hodge.
Chief executive Ian Robson and general manager of player personnel and strategy Chris Pelchen both told the Herald Sun last night the club had initiated those discussions.
Robson said: "We had a conversation with Mitchell and Hodge, which is the way we do our business with the player group. We would never enter into a transaction to secure a player that could fracture our model."
Pelchen said: "We had discussions with some members of our leadership group to explain our proposal. They didn't come to us and say, 'We don't want Ryan O'Keefe'.
"We have had no backlash on that at all. They were thankful the call had been made, and they respect what the club is doing.]"




Looks like the bitching has started at Hawthorn about how much the players think they are actually worth. It's fair enough but the running of the finances in a business shouldn't have anything to do with it's employees. An AFL club should be no exception! That players are raising issues regarding what money O'Keefe might or might not be on would be sounding alarm bells if I was a supporter of this club.

If I was a paid up member, I would demand an improvement to the playing 22 if it was achievable. After watching my side sit at the bottom for 4 years whilst trying to improve our list, I would not now just accept that these same 22 or so players would get the job done in the next few years. Complacency is what harms the team in the end & adding a high quality, 190cm hard running, strong marking, arobically fit midfielder to our p'ship team would put paid to any member of that team that may think they are now 'untouchable', just because they may have been part of a p'ship!!

But..........that's my opinion!

 

[caddyhawk]

The "outsiders" can shove their suggestions up their you know where. As for improvement in the list, ROK would be a short term top-up. Besides I can accept these same 22 or so players that just won the fricken p'ship.

 

[grayham]

Daily Telegraph article says ROK was never interested in going to Hawthorn, wants to go to Carlton but Carlton havent yet sat down at the table with Sydney to do the deal. Roos on record in the Telegraph saying this.

Article mentions a swap of 1st round picks (Syd get 6, Carl get 12) and a young player from the blues.

If just on picks, thats a much better deal than Hawthorns pick 16.

 

[rangermcdee]

If just on picks, thats a much better deal than Hawthorns pick 16.

If Carlton's pick six is genuinly on the table (and it is likely that it has been bandied about ever since the Warnck deal started to look shakey), why did sydney waste so much time with Hawthorns inferior deal?

Just like Hawthorn, the Sydney reps are there to get the best deal possible. The fact that Sydney stuck with Hawthorn implies two things to me....

1. Gross negligence by Sydney (I really doubt this, these guys know whats going on with other clubs at this time of year),
2. This was flight of fancy by the media and was never offered (this I think is more realistic).

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Your comments are right on the money.

I hate clubs that get a player to commit to them, then they think they have the upper hand and play hard ball with the trade. In the end all they do is stuff up the player, the other team and the whole trade week.

Collingwood have a bad rep for doing it and the hawks are going down the same path. Pretty soon no player or club are going to touch the hawks during trade week.

Don't believe everything you read or hear as no one knows what really happened Why is it that so many Nth Melbourne fans are so quick to assume the worst about the HFC? You guys really seem to have a vendetta against us

 

[Turbo911]

Don't believe everything you read or hear as no one knows what really happened Why is it that so many Nth Melbourne fans are so quick to assume the worst about the HFC? You guys really seem to have a vendetta against us

J Hay trade

 

[Corpuscles]

If Carlton's pick six is genuinly on the table (and it is likely that it has been bandied about ever since the Warnck deal started to look shakey), why did sydney waste so much time with Hawthorns inferior deal?

Just like Hawthorn, the Sydney reps are there to get the best deal possible. The fact that Sydney stuck with Hawthorn implies two things to me....

1. Gross negligence by Sydney (I really doubt this, these guys know whats going on with other clubs at this time of year),
2. This was flight of fancy by the media and was never offered (this I think is more realistic).

For your 'edumication'!

Swann CEO clearly announced on Monday that Pick 6 was not available to either Sydney or Fremantle and they were officially out of the negotiations for ROK!

Only when Hawks reneged have they been touted as a re entry.

Which I hope is the case 2.15mins to go!

 

[grimlock]

J Hay trade

+ Thompson, Rawlings, Picioane

 

[That's deliberate]

How disgraceful of Sydney to hold up the trade because they arn't getting what they want.

Their employee wants to leave them and they are carrying on like an ex girlfriend in denial.

No you can't leave and if you do we'll make sure you end up in the gutter...Thanks for the 10 years.....now piss off.

Sydney = disgraceful..

 

[rangermcdee]

For your 'edumication'!

Swann CEO clearly announced on Monday that Pick 6 was not available to either Sydney or Fremantle and they were officially out of the negotiations for ROK!

Only when Hawks reneged have they been touted as a re entry.

Which I hope is the case 2.15mins to go!

So assuming Carlton stick to their guns and do not offer 6. This would result in Carltons next best pick, 24. Still not getting the required first rounder that Sydney are keen on and has been the sticking point with Hawthorn (despite the opinion of many Hawk fans here, I have no issue with Sydney sticking to thier initial thoughts, if they honestly believe ROK is a first round pick, they should stick to it. I know it is how HFC would of run the deal if they were in Sydney's shoes. We lost out, it happens when you try to force a deal on your terms, but I would not expect anything less from the Hawthorn Reps, if they did less they are not doing thier job).

Changes in circumstances between Hawthorn and Sydney should not change Carltons stance, lets see if they stick to thier guns now....

Carlton have found some extra room in thier cap (which might have been freed up as a result of not getting Warnock), or Sydney are going to soften thier view and decide that 24 from Carlton (with perhaps a player) is the lesser of two evils.

Free agency is coming I think, and as much as I hate to say it, the way my team has dealt in the last 4-5 has only highlighted the need for it to be tested in our game.

 

[That's deliberate]

So assuming Carlton stick to their guns and do not offer 6. This would result in Carltons next best pick, 24. Still not getting the required first rounder that Sydney are keen on and has been the sticking point with Hawthorn (despite the opinion of many Hawk fans here, I have no issue with Sydney sticking to thier initial thoughts, if they honestly believe ROK is a first round pick, they should stick to it. I know it is how HFC would of run the deal if they were in Sydney's shoes. We lost out, it happens when you try to force a deal on your terms, but I would not expect anything less from the Hawthorn Reps, if they did less they are not doing thier job).

Changes in circumstances between Hawthorn and Sydney should not change Carltons stance, lets see if they stick to thier guns now....

Carlton have found some extra room in thier cap (which might have been freed up as a result of not getting Warnock), or Sydney are going to soften thier view and decide that 24 from Carlton (with perhaps a player) is the lesser of two evils.

Free agency is coming I think, and as much as I hate to say it, the way my team has dealt in the last 4-5 has only highlighted the need for it to be tested in our game.

ROK is not our player you peanut.

Sydney are the ones holding him up as ranson.

he has served them 10 years and want out...

Simple...let him go.

 

[rangermcdee]

How disgraceful of Sydney to hold up the trade because they arn't getting what they want.

Their employee wants to leave them and they are carrying on like an ex girlfriend in denial.

No you can't leave and if you do we'll make sure you end up in the gutter...Thanks for the 10 years.....now piss off.

Sydney = disgraceful..

Both teams are acting in a way I would expect of them. They are only trying to get the best possible outcome for thier organisation. If Hawthorn caved in and handed over 16 would you be happy? I doubt it.

Just as Sydney fans would be angry if Sydney agreed to what ever Pelchen put on the table in counter offer. All clubs look out for thier own interests first, and if they can come out of it without being thought of in a bad light or even a fair dealer, all the better, thats the icing on the deal. If they step on a few toes to acheive thier aims, so be it so ong as they get what they want. Clubs worry about themselves first and others come a very distant second.

 

[rangermcdee]

ROK is not our player you peanut.

Sydney are the ones holding him up as ranson.

he has served them 10 years and want out...

Simple...let him go.

Missed an important word after 4-5...... that word was years. Suddenly the ending of my post seems a little more appropriate.

 

[rangermcdee]

ROK is not our player you peanut.

Sydney are the ones holding him up as ranson.

he has served them 10 years and want out...

Simple...let him go.

Also, A few years back rawlings wanted to go... he was getting close to ten years with us. We were far from gacious back then, in fact we completely stymied his final request to Hawthorn, to be traded to his brothers club.

 

[That's deliberate]

Also, A few years back rawlings wanted to go... he was getting close to ten years with us. We were far from gacious back then, in fact we completely stymied his final request to Hawthorn, to be traded to his brothers club.

We were wrong with the way we handled Rawlings.

We are not wrong in the way we are handling ROK...He is not our player.

 

[rangermcdee]

We were wrong with the way we handled Rawlings.

We are not wrong in the way we are handling ROK...He is not our player.

You are completely right, and no one has even implied that he is. ROK is not our player, and as a result we can not demand how the trade goes through, all we can do is make an offer. Sydney have most of the power in this situation since they are the ones who hold onto ROK's contract.

You sound like you expect this deal to get through no matter what just becuase ROK wants to go. unfortunately Sydney have every right to turn down offers that we, as opposing supporters, think are generally fair. If Hawthorn and Sydney can not come to a mutual agreement then no deal, it is a basic legal concept that both parties have to agree to the clauses of the contract, and a trade of goods (sorry for the crude comparison of players and goods there) is a contract between two parties.

 

[That's deliberate]

You are completely right, and no one has even implied that he is. ROK is not our player, and as a result we can not demand how the trade goes through, all we can do is make an offer. Sydney have most of the power in this situation since they are the ones who hold onto ROK's contract.

You sound like you expect this deal to get through no matter what just becuase ROK wants to go. unfortunately Sydney have every right to turn down offers that we, as opposing supporters, think are generally fair. If Hawthorn and Sydney can not come to a mutual agreement then no deal, it is a basic legal concept that both parties have to agree to the clauses of the contract, and a trade of goods (sorry for the crude comparison of players and goods there) is a contract between two parties.

Correct...if one of my employees wanted to leave me after 10 years i'd thank them for their service and wish them well...

Not hang them out to dry and say NO you are not going to work for them because i get nothing out of it..

 

[Syd]

Correct...if one of my employees wanted to leave me after 10 years i'd thank them for their service and wish them well...

Not hang them out to dry and say NO you are not going to work for them because i get nothing out of it..

Pelchen: We'd like to fit Ryan in.
Roos: OK, pick 16 and a player
Pelchen: No pick 16 is off the table, choose anyone EXCEPT these 7
Roos: OK, how about Jordan Lewis
Pelchen: No, not him either take pick #38 or somesuch, after all he's just a 2 time AA player in his prime with a great motor, walks into our best 22, you know, hardly worth haggling. Here take pick #93 thats fair.....

IF your mob wants him, it is a 2-way street.
God I hate DICTATORIAL negotiating. I'm sure WE are trying to get Ryan where he wants to go. Just get suitable compensation in return.

 

[That's deliberate]

Pelchen: We'd like to fit Ryan in.
Roos: OK, pick 16 and a player
Pelchen: No pick 16 is off the table, choose anyone EXCEPT these 7
Roos: OK, how about Jordan Lewis
Pelchen: No, not him either take pick #38 or somesuch, after all he's just a 2 time AA player in his prime with a great motor, walks into our best 22, you know, hardly worth haggling. Here take pick #93 thats fair.....

IF your mob wants him, it is a 2-way street.
God I hate DICTATORIAL negotiating. I'm sure WE are trying to get Ryan where he wants to go. Just get suitable compensation in return.

Again, what right do i have getting any compensation for an employee who wishes to leave me after 10 years of service.

So my employee leaves me after 10 years and his new employer should compensate me...What a load of tripe.

 

[amos]

I'm sure WE are trying to get Ryan where he wants to go. Just get suitable compensation in return.

The Advertiser article and Maxfield's comments suggest he wants to go to Carlton and never wanted to go there. Search this thread back about 3 pages for the link.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

You are completely right, and no one has even implied that he is. ROK is not our player, and as a result we can not demand how the trade goes through, all we can do is make an offer. Sydney have most of the power in this situation since they are the ones who hold onto ROK's contract.

You sound like you expect this deal to get through no matter what just becuase ROK wants to go. unfortunately Sydney have every right to turn down offers that we, as opposing supporters, think are generally fair. If Hawthorn and Sydney can not come to a mutual agreement then no deal, it is a basic legal concept that both parties have to agree to the clauses of the contract, and a trade of goods (sorry for the crude comparison of players and goods there) is a contract between two parties.

That would all be fine except that Hawthorn have put up offers and withdrawn them after the fact. 16 was on the table then it wasn't. Hawthorn's words. Players were on the table then they weren't. Sydney's words. ROK wanted to come to Hawthorn and would accept less money. Hawthorn's words. Bullsh1t. ROK's words.

 

[stick]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh yes Syd I'm sure that's how it happened. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Can't believe the number of supporters that take media reports as gospel...

When will people learn?