List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[theGav56]

Walters is having his best ever season playing in the middle and we are doing well.

The primary force behind that is Michael Walters' work ethic. That's where you'll see most of our growth come from as well.

He is electric. Gets bashed around in there a bit too, but keeps going. One of those players who may kick as many goals playing midfield as he does forward too. I am loving the club's multi-positional player strategy in general, but Walters is a bit of a poster boy for it.

 

[salim malik]

Me thinks we may not be too different if you think a contract extension shouldn't be on the table before mid next year.

While I agree the right tools make a difference but we've had most of those forward tools Tabs, Cox, McCarthy, Darcy, and crumbers Matera and Sonny last year but playing out of position and injuries took a toll.

As far as whom I think responsible for "something different happened" is Bell who I believe has been the push behind skills training after RTB has repeatedly publicly rated skills an afterthought to effort and should be the players responsibility and Lord Leigh of Mon -tag- nah, the Lord Baelish who could be intelligence behind the throne and Kingmaker this year.

This played out of position last season is rubbish. Matera and Tabs both played up the ground and in the forward half against GWS just like they did last season. Matera and Tabs are both now fit and had a full pre season under their belt which is the reason they are playing better.
Walters played mid and forward last season , no change there. Hogan and Lobbs arrival, another pre season plus experience under the youngsters is another reason for the improvement. The rebuild is taking effect ,embrace it . It's a pretty good feeling.

 

[theGav56]

This played out of position last season is rubbish. Matera and Tabs both played up the ground and in the forward half against GWS just like they did last season. Matera and Tabs are both now fit and had a full pre season under their belt which is the reason they are playing better.
Walters played mid and forward last season , no change there. Hogan and Lobbs arrival, another pre season plus experience under the youngsters is another reason for the improvement. The rebuild is taking effect ,embrace it . It's a pretty good feeling.

I think what posters are seeing as being played "out of position" is actually a central part of the emerging game plan. The club has advertised that they are looking for multi-positional players, and that's what we are seeing.

Why was BHilly tagged on the weekend?

Well he is damaging so he should be considered for a tag, but Fyfe is more damaging. And Fyfe has (occasionally) had his impact reduced by taggers before, plus de Boer is a pretty good physical match up. I think part of the reason why BHilly got it is because he lacks the other position that he can turn to when tagged. Walters is a more similar player to BHill, but if he is getting hurt by a tag he will go and ply his trade in the forward line. For the opposition that isn't a win, but they did get a win against BHill on the weekend.

 

[Taylor]

That AFL key forwards stay inside the forward fifty is a myth. Some might stay in the forward half but most will roam all the way to defensive fifty because their marking power secures ground and turns a 40m kick out of congestion into 100m of ball movement up the ground.

Having small forwards with the tank to roam to the back pocket and the skills to both create goals out of nothing and hit up team mates when up the ground is vital.

 

[BlueE]

Spot on about Bell making a difference I think. And as he should too, after all, he is Ross's BOSS!!! That's a job position I wouldn't be putting in an application for, but Bell is having a significant impact. But isn't the difference-maker whoever moved Bondie on and appointed Bell?

Another year/pre-season into Cox, McCarty and Darcy (and any other young players) is huge for them. But I think the key is the super-structure that has been placed around them over the off-season, especially Lobb and Hogan.

At what stage do we no longer say that Walters is being played out of position and more see him as a midfielder who can go forward?

Didn't the board with Bell on it move Bond on? Also in giving Lloyd the push but I'm not convinced the L plater who replaced him is going to be an improvement. However You'd think it left room in the salaries for change if we needed to. Rosich is out of contact at the end of this year I think and he has attached himself very closely to Ross, so he would be invested that Ross does well.

The super structures for me is improving our gameplan and assistants. An indication that Ross didn't think we needed to improve assistant coaches when no one was removed last year and I think contracts renewed. Taylor may have information if any are out of contract this year and the date we need to tell them if we are going to re-employ for next year. I think it's August 1st.

There are many good assistants (and players like Sam Mitchell who made good assistants) with the models of Richmond, Collingwood and this year in St Kilda of success when appointing these to support the coach.

The problem is when these assistants can win head coaching positions and leave if there is no position at the club they are employed at. However this is the directions where I believe Freo needs to go next year to keep developing and improve.

 

[Cesoir]

This played out of position last season is rubbish. Matera and Tabs both played up the ground and in the forward half against GWS just like they did last season. Matera and Tabs are both now fit and had a full pre season under their belt which is the reason they are playing better.
Walters played mid and forward last season , no change there. Hogan and Lobbs arrival, another pre season plus experience under the youngsters is another reason for the improvement. The rebuild is taking effect ,embrace it . It's a pretty good feeling.

Agree with this. The whole narrative that says Ross was stubbornly clinging to an old way then Prince Belly came in and forced him to see the light is just nonsense. This rebuild has been taking place over a number of years now (the exact number is debatable) and the benefits are starting to show. We did not suddenly gain skills from one week of skills training, and more than we lost our skills between the North Melbourne game and the Suns game.

Young sides are inconsistent, and bringing new players into a team causes instability and lack of cohesion at times. This will improve dramatically if we can keep a relatively stable team on the park, keeping personnel changes to a minimum to cover injuries, allow for player management and allow exposure for our depth players. Players were played out of position at times last year due to injuries to key players - Taberner went down early, both Hills were injured at times, Fyfe missed footy, Walters was playing injured all season. The key this year is to keep the majority of our best 22 on the park and keep the team as stable as possible, then we will be a legitimate finals chance.

Another year's development into the kids, along with reinforcement of the game plan and I am very excited about next year and the years following that.

I think there are some posters who are so blinded by their hatred of Ross Lyon that to accept he has been doing exactly what he said he would do is inconceivable. There is a long way to go and a couple of good wins is not the end game, but I am still happy to hold off my judgement until the middle of this season.

 

[theGav56]

Didn't the board with Bell on it move Bond on? Also in giving Lloyd the push but I'm not convinced the L plater who replaced him is going to be an improvement. However You'd think it left room in the salaries for change if we needed to. Rosich is out of contact at the end of this year I think and he has attached himself very closely to Ross, so he would be invested that Ross does well.

The super structures for me is improving our gameplan and assistants. An indication that Ross didn't think we needed to improve assistant coaches when no one was removed last year and I think contracts renewed. Taylor may have information if any are out of contract this year and the date we need to tell them if we are going to re-employ for next year. I think it's August 1st.

There are many good assistants (and players like Sam Mitchell who made good assistants) with the models of Richmond, Collingwood and this year in St Kilda of success when appointing these to support the coach.

The problem is when these assistants can win head coaching positions and leave if there is no position at the club they are employed at. However this is the directions where I believe Freo needs to go next year to keep developing and improve.

For sure Bell needs to be looking at the assistants, and discussing that with Lyon. He'd be looking at those doing the job now and making a list, and checking it twice, and thinking about what he may be able to get Ross for Christmas. I'm not sure he would be unhappy, although the skills area and S&C would be reviewed.

 

[Cesoir]

Didn't the board with Bell on it move Bond on? Also in giving Lloyd the push but I'm not convinced the L plater who replaced him is going to be an improvement. However You'd think it left room in the salaries for change if we needed to. Rosich is out of contact at the end of this year I think and he has attached himself very closely to Ross, so he would be invested that Ross does well.

The super structures for me is improving our gameplan and assistants. An indication that Ross didn't think we needed to improve assistant coaches when no one was removed last year and I think contracts renewed. Taylor may have information if any are out of contract this year and the date we need to tell them if we are going to re-employ for next year. I think it's August 1st.

There are many good assistants (and players like Sam Mitchell who made good assistants) with the models of Richmond, Collingwood and this year in St Kilda of success when appointing these to support the coach.

The problem is when these assistants can win head coaching positions and leave if there is no position at the club they are employed at. However this is the directions where I believe Freo needs to go next year to keep developing and improve.

Don't want to labour the point BlueE, but you constantly do this - you ASSUME that the board moved Bond on (because you agreed with that decision) but you ASSUME that Lyon made the decision that we didn't need to improve our assistants (because you disagreed with that one).

Reality is, you have no idea who made either of those decisions, you just ascribe them in a way that supports your dislike of Lyon.

 

[theGav56]

I think there are some posters who are so blinded by their hatred of Ross Lyon that to accept he has been doing exactly what he said he would do is inconceivable.

No doubt about this. Coupled with that they don't like the game plan style we were playing, especially when we are losing.

 

[Cesoir]

No doubt about this. Coupled with that they don't like the game plan style we were playing, especially when we are losing.

Yep, and I was very frustrated watching the Suns, Gold Coast and Eagles games too. But even in those games there were signs that we were trying to play fast, flowing football, we just weren't allowed to by our opposition and our skills / decision making under pressure. These will improve as they get used to each other and the game plan.

Hopefully we see more of the good and less of the bad, but there WILL be other bad games and it won't be because Lyon has decided to change back to the "old" way! The only way of shutting up the Freo and Lyon bashing is by putting consistent results on the board, which is fair enough too.

 

[BlueE]

Don't want to labour the point BlueE, but you constantly do this - you ASSUME that the board moved Bond on (because you agreed with that decision) but you ASSUME that Lyon made the decision that we didn't need to improve our assistants (because you disagreed with that one).

Reality is, you have no idea who made either of those decisions, you just ascribe them in a way that supports your dislike of Lyon.

Actually I was answering Gav's question and have never posted on this before or had any strong ASSUMPTIONS about it if you look at my posting on this. If I was wrong and the board didn't move Bond on maybe you or Gav could inform me who did?

Also if my ASSUMPTION that the boss of the assistants didn't want any change please inform me? The clubs I posted about who did add excellent assistants and have seen improvement I do ASSUME that the main push for employing them came from the clubs not the coach but that's a ASSUMPTION of course.

Only thing I dislike is being a foundation member for Freo and not having a premiership for 25 years. (Also posters that have to use capitals and bolding to get their point across rather than their argument)

 

[FreoMonocle]

Actually I was answering Gav's question and have never posted on this before or had any strong ASSUMPTIONS about it if you look at my posting on this. If I was wrong and the board didn't move Bond on maybe you or Gav could inform me who did?

Also if my ASSUMPTION that the boss of the assistants didn't want any change please inform me? The clubs I posted about who did add excellent assistants and have seen improvement I do ASSUME that the main push for employing them came from the clubs not the coach but that's a ASSUMPTION of course

Any chance with Bond, that no one was responsible for his moving on, other than Bond? Time for a change sort of thing.

The Saints, Brisbane, Gold Coast are in a similar boat to Freo. They've obtained a couple of talented young players over a few years, a rise up the ladder coincides with that factor. Pretty hard to untangle it all and know which, if any, of the junior coaches are responsible for any additional improvements when the list itself is driving improvement.

 

[Taylor]

There's an argument to be had about whether a team would perform acceptably poor as certain elements of the game plan are left off until ready (read: attained enough talent) to push up the hill again.

 

[Nothing]

Actually I was answering Gav's question and have never posted on this before or had any strong ASSUMPTIONS about it if you look at my posting on this. If I was wrong and the board didn't move Bond on maybe you or Gav could inform me who did?

Also if my ASSUMPTION that the boss of the assistants didn't want any change please inform me? The clubs I posted about who did add excellent assistants and have seen improvement I do ASSUME that the main push for employing them came from the clubs not the coach but that's a ASSUMPTION of course.

Only thing I dislike is being a foundation member for Freo and not having a premiership for 25 years. (Also posters that have to use capitals and bolding to get their point across rather than their argument)

What about last year?

That can't be done with the AFL requiring clubs to inform their assistants if they won't be required next year. Fremantle, confirmed smugly by Chris Bond on radio before the Geelong game today have all their assistants signed up and contracted for next year at least. Bond is also is under contract and won't be going anywhere, he confirmed.

So even if Ross was booted no one else will be moving. So short sighted of Fremantle to have not decided that no changes need to occur. Anywhere! Nothing to see here! Move on!

Bolding because you're a simple person who likes bold statements.

 

[Nothing]

Personally, I think we should engineer another coup and get Luke Beveridge. Been a big fan of him for years, said so after round 1 2016:



Bang on, once again, Claylias/Clay Davis.

View attachment 546059

Still want Bevo?

 

[Scham]

Still want Bevo?

You may've just tempted fate...

 

[Nothing]

You may've just tempted fate...

No doubt.

I do find it interesting the changes in view of things external to Freo across the last 12 months (or longer) but the views held about Freo and Ross Lyon are steadfastly held in place. It's the same posters on both sides (mostly) with very few changing their minds. I'd be interested in hearing from the less vocal who have wanted change in the last 18 months, the likes of Lach72 electricfeel Cameron_K Admiral Byng nurries PurpleGreenRed E Shed prpl_jss wild side and many more were all vocal 12-18 months ago about booting Ross (along with a LOT of others (capitals for BlueE )). Any of them think we are on the right path now?

The right path does not mean extending RL's contract but that Freo (and RL) maybe had a timeline and rebuild in place for a few years and it is starting to match the timeframe they laid out in mid 2016.

Of course, we could easily tank from here as we have done for the last couple of seasons. That will make for some interesting reading too.

 

[Scham]

No doubt.

I do find it interesting the changes in view of things external to Freo across the last 12 months (or longer) but the views held about Freo and Ross Lyon are steadfastly held in place. It's the same posters on both sides (mostly) with very few changing their minds. I'd be interested in hearing from the less vocal who have wanted change in the last 18 months, the likes of Lach72 electricfeel Cameron_K Admiral Byng nurries PurpleGreenRed E Shed prpl_jss wild side and many more were all vocal 12-18 months ago about booting Ross (along with a LOT of others (capitals for BlueE )). Any of them think we are on the right path now?

The right path does not mean extending RL's contract but that Freo (and RL) maybe had a timeline and rebuild in place for a few years and it is starting to match the timeframe they laid out in mid 2016.

Of course, we could easily tank from here as we have done for the last couple of seasons. That will make for some interesting reading too.

As I've posted before, we seem to have got onto the right path in the last two weeks. I've noticed definite improvements and that's all that I've wanted to see over the last three years. There's a hell of a long way to go, and so no, Ross shouldn't be extended just yet. But the signs over the last two weeks have been positive. Let's hope we keep it going. Success is all that any of us want.

 

[Square Peg]

I saw someone post somewhere that Clay has received a board ban - I hope not. If he has it isn't fair to take pot shots at him if he can't respond. If he's just being a wuss and not posting here - pot away.

 

[Nothing]

I saw someone post somewhere that Clay has received a board ban - I hope not. If he has it isn't fair to take pot shots at him if he can't respond. If he's just being a wuss and not posting here - pot away.

If he has a board ban under this alias, I'm sure he would just create another next time Freo lose.

 

[Square Peg]

If he has a board ban under this alias, I'm sure he would just create another next time Freo lose.

He likes posting about things he thinks we can improve and how we are comparatively tracking badly in some areas. That doesn't mean he takes joy in us losing. Why the two are confused by some people is beyond me.

 

[maka]

He likes posting about things he thinks we can improve and how we are comparatively tracking badly in some areas. That doesn't mean he takes joy in us losing. Why the two are confused by some people is beyond me.

I havent got a board ban, so not sure why he would? Mods all seem pretty chilled unless it was a verbal tirade against another poster

 

[Paracleet]

He likes posting about things he thinks we can improve and how we are comparatively tracking badly in some areas. That doesn't mean he takes joy in us losing. Why the two are confused by some people is beyond me.

Because it's true

 

[Lach72]

No doubt.

I do find it interesting the changes in view of things external to Freo across the last 12 months (or longer) but the views held about Freo and Ross Lyon are steadfastly held in place. It's the same posters on both sides (mostly) with very few changing their minds. I'd be interested in hearing from the less vocal who have wanted change in the last 18 months, the likes of Lach72 electricfeel Cameron_K Admiral Byng nurries PurpleGreenRed E Shed prpl_jss wild side and many more were all vocal 12-18 months ago about booting Ross (along with a LOT of others (capitals for BlueE )). Any of them think we are on the right path now?

The right path does not mean extending RL's contract but that Freo (and RL) maybe had a timeline and rebuild in place for a few years and it is starting to match the timeframe they laid out in mid 2016.

Of course, we could easily tank from here as we have done for the last couple of seasons. That will make for some interesting reading too.

I want to see a more consistent and longer body of work...and what happens when other clubs work out what we're trying to do

There's been some encouraging signs. So far we've played 2 poor games, one ok game, 2 very good games.

Side seems to be gelling a bit

 

[wayToGo_]

This played out of position last season is rubbish. Matera and Tabs both played up the ground and in the forward half against GWS just like they did last season. Matera and Tabs are both now fit and had a full pre season under their belt which is the reason they are playing better.
Walters played mid and forward last season , no change there. Hogan and Lobbs arrival, another pre season plus experience under the youngsters is another reason for the improvement. The rebuild is taking effect ,embrace it . It's a pretty good feeling.

Matera was used in the midfield and on the wing last season. I don't recall seeing him there this season, probably because we haven't needed him to play there. As you say that doesn't mean he won't still come up the ground at times - he's been pretty reliable whenever he gets the ball this season imo.

Also when in the forward line last year he was often playing as a high half forward rather than as a forward pocket. Ballantyne tended to be used as our deepest small forward last season. Still not convinced Ballas + Matera in the same team gives us the right mix but whilst Ballas is injured we don't need to concern ourselves with it. Switta coming in, who was out almost all of last season and is more valuable at half forward, helps with balance as well.

I don't think Ross deliberately played him out of position last year - I just think the set of circumstances we had didn't suit us leveraging Matera's strengths as well as we have this season. Plus as you say, his fitness is chalk and cheese between the two seasons. And we have multiple talls that he can crumb off now.

Rather than complain about what we did last year, supporters should be congratulating all involved (recruiters, coaches, players) for a creating a far more functional forward line this season where we are getting more out of everyone and it seems likely to only get better and better over time. Pretty incredible to think these guys have only been playing together for a handful of games at most.