List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[ep2018]

Sorry but this is quite ridiculous, Ross is a very decent coach and you were doing well before you were hit with some significant injuries. You dont fluke beating GWS and Collingwood away from Perth. Neither do you fluke four grand finals. Sure, next year if with a full squad you are playing like this than by all means give him the flick, but I wouldnt right now. The bloke laid the soil and planted the seed, surely right now you let him see the flower?

 

[imperial_oz]

Also, am I the only one who doesnt understand why the million dollar pay out is a problem. Club has never been richer and is flush with cash. That shouldnt be stopping us moving Lyon on if thats what the board want

Ok 2 points here.

1. That million+ payout also comes in as part of our footy dept soft salary cap. We can exceed it but then we pay 100% to the AFL. It then effectively becomes a 2 million+ payout.

2. The club really isn't that flush. The owners, WAFC, take most of the after tax profit. The club actually gets very little after the WAFC has had its fill at the trough. We are on a different deal to the eagles. The rules for the eagles is the WAFC takes a certain percentage of the profit. With Freo, they take a certain percentage of the income. This means we will always be financially worse off than the eagles while the WAFC holds both licences.

In effect, the club may not be able to raise the money to sack Lyon this year and the board should be held responsible for some pretty poor decisions in that regard.

 

[imperial_oz]

What do you think I'm overstating, also, how can you possibly know the bolded?

I should think that would be very obvious. The difference in that game was not our ability as we had a very good side. The difference in the end was our skill errors.

Just look at kicking on goal. Both sides had the same number of scoring shots and they kicked 11.11 and we kicked 8.14. The loss wasn't through lack of endeavour, it wasn't through lack of desire, it was simply because we made more skill errors than Hawthorn, a situation that remains unchanged to this very day. The fact that the situation remains unchanged is a very telling factor in why his time is up.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I should think that would be very obvious. The difference in that game was not our ability as we had a very good side. The difference in the end was our skill errors.

Just look at kicking on goal. Both sides had the same number of scoring shots and they kicked 11.11 and we kicked 8.14. The loss wasn't through lack of endeavour, it wasn't through lack of desire, it was simply because we made more skill errors than Hawthorn, a situation that remains unchanged to this very day. The fact that the situation remains unchanged is a very telling factor in why his time is up.

But do we then perform as well as we did otherwise if we focused more on skills and less on structure/effort etc. Point is, you cant possibly know if Lyon's coaching philosophy cost us the Grand Final because you cant know how we would have performed otherwise. That is entirely your opinion that is physically impossible to back up with evidence. Without looking at stats, I'd hazard a bet we shot better than 8.14 the rest of the year, so did we just not practice our skills well enough that week...

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Ok 2 points here.

1. That million+ payout also comes in as part of our footy dept soft salary cap. We can exceed it but then we pay 100% to the AFL. It then effectively becomes a 2 million+ payout.

2. The club really isn't that flush. The owners, WAFC, take most of the after tax profit. The club actually gets very little after the WAFC has had its fill at the trough. We are on a different deal to the eagles. The rules for the eagles is the WAFC takes a certain percentage of the profit. With Freo, they take a certain percentage of the income. This means we will always be financially worse off than the eagles while the WAFC holds both licences.

In effect, the club may not be able to raise the money to sack Lyon this year and the board should be held responsible for some pretty poor decisions in that regard.

The **** is that bullshit, which ******* organised that deal

 

[imperial_oz]

The fu** is that bulls**t, which ******* organised that deal

Not bloody me, I'll give you the tip.

I'm also of the view that WAFC, being dominated by eagles supporters, is perfectly content to see one team doing well and letting the other team go down the dunny.

Personally, as FreoFC is actually a state owned asset, they should be stepping in to ensure the club doesn't go through these situations for so long but so far...nada.

 

[imperial_oz]

But do we then perform as well as we did otherwise if we focused more on skills and less on structure/effort etc. Point is, you cant possibly know if Lyon's coaching philosophy cost us the Grand Final because you cant know how we would have performed otherwise. That is entirely your opinion that is physically impossible to back up with evidence. Without looking at stats, I'd hazard a bet we shot better than 8.14 the rest of the year, so did we just not practice our skills well enough that week...

Naaah, it's not that simple.

Don't base that just on the day, although if you have a strong stomach you can watch the game again. I have and hated every second of it.

The difference in execution was noticeable. In fact, if it wasn't for Mundy just about winning the third quarter on his own, the difference would have been bigger.

The difference in skills execution still exists and it has not changed since the GF. That should be telling you something.

 

[PurpleEyes]

I should think that would be very obvious. The difference in that game was not our ability as we had a very good side. The difference in the end was our skill errors.

Just look at kicking on goal. Both sides had the same number of scoring shots and they kicked 11.11 and we kicked 8.14. The loss wasn't through lack of endeavour, it wasn't through lack of desire, it was simply because we made more skill errors than Hawthorn, a situation that remains unchanged to this very day. The fact that the situation remains unchanged is a very telling factor in why his time is up.

Freo did waste some opportunities to kick goals in that game, but just to be accurate, 3 rushed behinds to Freo, 1 to Hawks, so that makes it 11.10 to 8.11. (and then there are other factors like their 2nd goal which was a point until we got shafted by the umps who gave Franklin a 50m penalty goal for McPharlin supposedly crossing the mark ... which he didn't on replay).
But again, don't get me wrong, that Hawks team was filled with skilled players ... who also kicked behinds (eg. Franklin, Roughead, Rioli, Burgoyne).

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

The interesting thing about Tom Browne's Talking Footy report is the mention of sponsors not yet committing to next year.

I have no idea if that's true or not. But, if (if) it is true then that would have a big impact on a board.

It's one thing to have a disappointing end to the year. It's another it it starts having a material impact on income.

 

[imperial_oz]

Freo did waste some opportunities to kick goals in that game, but just to be accurate, 3 rushed behinds to Freo, 1 to Hawks, so that makes it 11.10 to 8.11. (and then there are other factors like their 2nd goal which was a point until we got shafted by the umps who gave Franklin a 50m penalty goal for McPharlin supposedly crossing the mark ... which he didn't on replay).
But again, don't get me wrong, that Hawks team was filled with skilled players ... who also kicked behinds (eg. Franklin, Roughead, Rioli, Burgoyne).

Oh yeah, don't think I have forgotten the way that prick Nicholls aka bald headed flog, behaved in that game. He's on my shitlist until the end of time.

Unfortunately, the Hawks executed their skills better than we did. As I said before, Dave Mundy was the difference between 15 point loss and much more. He was absolutely immense in the third.

 

[mightymouse75]

**** the wafc. **** the afl and **** west coast eagles..

 

[Keys]

fu** the wafc. fu** the afl and fu** west coast eagles..

Royalties paid to WAFC 2018

West Coast $3,906,471 ($2,300,000 -2017)
Fremantle $1,063,388 ($985,975 - 2017)

 

[wal]

Royalties paid to WAFC 2018

West Coast $3,906,471 ($2,300,000 -2017)
Fremantle $1,063,388 ($985,975 - 2017)

Thanks for your call, now did you have a point?

 

[dockshark]

fu** the wafc. fu** the afl and fu** west coast eagles..

I would forget the WAFC conspiracy theories and just accept what is plainly fact. West Coast Eagles are better managed, with a more commercially mature board, a clearer and more deliberate strategy, a more ruthless approach, better recruitment an drafting, and far better outcomes. It would not surprise me at all to see West Coast go back to back, and we can all sit back and nash our teeth about it or accept it as our reality, uncomfortable though it may be.

Our club needs an overhaul and it needs to start at the top. I will be fuming if Ross goes down and Rosich stays. Jason Webber and team surely need a deep dive review into their operating model, we need to understand why our availability is so poor. We need to get some decent experienced assistant coaches in, and hope regardless of who the senior coach is next year we make that a priority.

It's all starting to smell like the need for a clean out if you ask me, but this is one of those things where I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, and see the current leadership turn it around and steer us towards the national relevance we all crave.

 

[Spirit Level]

Sorry but this is quite ridiculous, Ross is a very decent coach and you were doing well before you were hit with some significant injuries. You dont fluke beating GWS and Collingwood away from Perth. Neither do you fluke four grand finals. Sure, next year if with a full squad you are playing like this than by all means give him the flick, but I wouldnt right now. The bloke laid the soil and planted the seed, surely right now you let him see the flower?

Have you actually watched our games lately

 

[imperial_oz]

Royalties paid to WAFC 2018

West Coast $3,906,471 ($2,300,000 -2017)
Fremantle $1,063,388 ($985,975 - 2017)

Yes, the eagles paid more but on the basis of a much larger income. The eagles get to keep a lot more of their income than Freo does

 

[332docker]

Yeah I think that you're overstating things a bit here.

Sure he has his good points. He is a good finisher coach for an already developed list...or he was. The game has changed (intentionally by the AFL) and he hasn't changed with it. Seemingly he either cannot adapt or refuses to do so.

He also isn't the anti-christ, although some of his off field behaviour might suggest otherwise.

He led us to our first GF appearance, thats undeniable. On the other hand, his mantra of effort over skills was what cost us the flag in the end. So, I see it as swings and roundabouts.

I want him gone. I make no secret of that. I want him gone because he is not going to take us to a premiership. Of that I am 100% convinced and that is enough to see him out the door asap. He might be a better coach than Drum but if he isn't going to get us a flag, then he goes the same way. Footy isn't really sentimental enough not to act.

Of course, the next bloke might also not be good enough but we won't know until we try and the possibility of failure is still better than the guarantee of failure.

His time is up and quite properly up.

There should be others following him out the door as well. Not everything is his fault.

Everyone talking about the game changing - sorry - i don't see it. All clubs good and bad try and play with a good "system" listen to other teams coaches and players they all constantly talk about it, from clarko, Chris Scott, Simpson right down to Dew.

Ross and the club will never blame inj as he is an "anyone, anywhere with whoever we have available" coach - whilst this works sometimes, particularly when the club has depth, it all relies on the team all being on the same page and playing to a "system".

We have had the largest turn over of players of any club since 2016, got in some serious talent. Matera is an example of a player taking a year to work out out to play the "system" our club employs (he's first year was crap, 2019 a lot better). Hogan will be so much better next year and i'm sure the connections will be much better into the forwards. Until RD 16, despite all our injuries 2019 was so much better than 2018. prior to the derby we has a low losing margin and were in just about every game till late in the last qrt. In 2018 our losses were terrible with big margins from rd 1 to rd 23.

Ask collingwood or melbourne whether injuries can derail a season. Melb go from prelim to only winning 5 games. Collingwood will scrap into 8 and be out in straight sets like out 2015 year.

Regardless of what the coach says in the media our injuries have really hurt our ability to run out the season better. Losing Hogan early in the game against melb and we just lost with only 2 on the bench (away at the G). From then on we have had only one win because wehave lost a key back, and 2 key forwards and battled to get our best ruckman on the park.

I have no doubt there should be a review of our S&C and why all our talls are hurting their feet, but the one thing the club can't do it listen to all the eagle supporters who get on the radio crapping on about our team - if the eagles lost NicNat, McGovern,Darling and Kennedy would they still be a premiership threat?

Nah...but 6Pr or the west would never talk about that or write about it as it doesn't suit their "lets see if we can run Lyon out of town mantra"

The club has done a lot right over the last few years. I hope they hold there nerve and finish off the rebuild and lets see what 2020 and beyond looks like!

 

[Freoforever86]

I’ve said a few times, next year is the year.

Let Ross finish the year off. Rebuild the fitness and assistants side (Poach Justin Longmuir) of our program. Hire a dedicated skills coach.
Smash skills and fitness over pre season. If by round 10 it’s still looking bleak, it’s time.

I think it’s probably better to let the coaching landscape go this season. Too many clubs looking at people and we would be far behind.

Next season if we had to pull the trigger, we could be the only club looking with a better system in place for a coach to step into. Atm, we’d be one of the least attractive & mightn’t get a candidate we want. No point rushing this thing.

Though if performances get worse, they might have no choice.

 

[Lach72]

I want him gone and someone who can actually make proper use of the players we’ve brought in

 

[Scham]

I’ve said a few times, next year is the year.

Let Ross finish the year off. Rebuild the fitness and assistants side (Poach Justin Longmuir) of our program. Hire a dedicated skills coach.
Smash skills and fitness over pre season. If by round 10 it’s still looking bleak, it’s time.

I think it’s probably better to let the coaching landscape go this season. Too many clubs looking at people and we would be far behind.

Next season if we had to pull the trigger, we could be the only club looking with a better system in place for a coach to step into. Atm, we’d be one of the least attractive & mightn’t get a candidate we want. No point rushing this thing.

Though if performances get worse, they might have no choice.

But Ross doesn’t want that or believe in it. So why force him to do something that he doesn’t believe in? You’re effectively saying that his main coaching philosophy is wrong, so why not just get a head coach that does?

If Ross stays for 2020, then he should get the support that he needs but if he’s coach, then let him coach. Otherwise get rid of him.

 

[Freoforever86]

But Ross doesn’t want that or believe in it. So why force him to do something that he doesn’t believe in? You’re effectively saying that his main coaching philosophy is wrong, so why not just get a head coach that does?

If Ross stays for 2020, then he should get the support that he needs but if he’s coach, then let him coach. Otherwise get rid of him.

The skills part yes, he’s obviously got that wrong, which in end of year review the should be able to identify pretty easily.
If he doesn’t believe in that, or refuses, Bell doesn’t have much of a choice.

By smash fitness, I mean with a new guy in charge. Ross would have some say in what he needs the players to do, but with a new fresh look on how that happens, I think he’d get better results and keep guys on the park.

Regardless of who coaches next year, if we have our best 22 on the park for longer period, we’re going to be bettet

 

[raffrox]

I would forget the WAFC conspiracy theories and just accept what is plainly fact. West Coast Eagles are better managed, with a more commercially mature board, a clearer and more deliberate strategy, a more ruthless approach, better recruitment an drafting, and far better outcomes. It would not surprise me at all to see West Coast go back to back, and we can all sit back and nash our teeth about it or accept it as our reality, uncomfortable though it may be.

Our club needs an overhaul and it needs to start at the top. I will be fuming if Ross goes down and Rosich stays. Jason Webber and team surely need a deep dive review into their operating model, we need to understand why our availability is so poor. We need to get some decent experienced assistant coaches in, and hope regardless of who the senior coach is next year we make that a priority.

It's all starting to smell like the need for a clean out if you ask me, but this is one of those things where I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, and see the current leadership turn it around and steer us towards the national relevance we all crave.

Post of the Year.

 

[BlueE]

Sorry but this is quite ridiculous, Ross is a very decent coach and you were doing well before you were hit with some significant injuries. You dont fluke beating GWS and Collingwood away from Perth. Neither do you fluke four grand finals. Sure, next year if with a full squad you are playing like this than by all means give him the flick, but I wouldnt right now. The bloke laid the soil and planted the seed, surely right now you let him see the flower?

Hahaha. Laid and planted the seed??? Never has and never will. You could say the coach that's lost 4 grand finals because he refuses to coach skills or goal kicking.

I'm curious if you've voted in the poll above to keep Ross?

 

[GingerDocker]

I would forget the WAFC conspiracy theories and just accept what is plainly fact. West Coast Eagles are better managed, with a more commercially mature board, a clearer and more deliberate strategy, a more ruthless approach, better recruitment an drafting, and far better outcomes. It would not surprise me at all to see West Coast go back to back, and we can all sit back and nash our teeth about it or accept it as our reality, uncomfortable though it may be.

Our club needs an overhaul and it needs to start at the top. I will be fuming if Ross goes down and Rosich stays. Jason Webber and team surely need a deep dive review into their operating model, we need to understand why our availability is so poor. We need to get some decent experienced assistant coaches in, and hope regardless of who the senior coach is next year we make that a priority.

It's all starting to smell like the need for a clean out if you ask me, but this is one of those things where I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, and see the current leadership turn it around and steer us towards the national relevance we all crave.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.
The thing for me is I think the list is still pretty good. It lacks depth and the midfield clearly needs reinforcements, but there is enough there for finals football. Do we have the ability (both at a football and boardroom level) to completely overhaul the coaching, S&C and executive ranks, while still getting the best out of the list? It won't be easy, yet we cannot afford to stuff it up or we'll be entering territory recently trail blazed by Carlton and Melbourne, and that's the last place we want to be!

 

[Belnakor]

I have no doubt there should be a review of our S&C and why all our talls are hurting their feet, but the one thing the club can't do it listen to all the eagle supporters who get on the radio crapping on about our team - if the eagles lost NicNat, McGovern,Darling and Kennedy would they still be a premiership threat?

Nah...but 6Pr or the west would never talk about that or write about it as it doesn't suit their "lets see if we can run Lyon out of town mantra"

The club has done a lot right over the last few years. I hope they hold there nerve and finish off the rebuild and lets see what 2020 and beyond looks like!

great post, i agree 100%.

People are getting totally sucked in to Channel Weagle, they are getting sucked in by 6PR.

We are on track, the rebuild is going really well. We've unearthed some great talent (Brayshaw) and we've recruited Lobb who is going to be a total star. We have Hogan who played on one leg all year and still looked good when he was fit. Its funny how the moment Hogan got injured we have dropped off a cliff.

People just want to sack the coach who is basically on the cusp of paying off. It would be like selling shares just before they are about to peak.

We should resign Ross for 3 more years, clean out the S&C and beef up the AC ranks and we're in business.

We also have ZERO alternatives for Ross. We would be picking a rookie coach. A rookie playing list + rookie coach just doesn't work. Ross is a finished product. What you see is what you get. He just needs the cattle.