Toast Ross Lyon

[Clay Davis]

Did he actually tackle/solve that problem?
Genuine question

Six players were dropped before the end of the 2007 season by Harvey. Players got suspended for drinking mid week. Prior to that, off field incidents involving Freo players happened fairly regularly. By 2010/2011 the only real off field incident was Michael Johnson.

Guys like Farmer were retired despite still having good footy left in them, Peake was traded partly because of his trouble drinking.

Another incident.

http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/broughtons-rocky-road-to-end-in-dockers-debut-20090410-a2ym.html

 

[Shaymuhz]

I'm not sure why the hate on me... I think Freo were absolutely spot on to get rid of Harvey, very very big fan of Lyon. No idea of what I've stepped into with the politics around here obviously!

*backs away from angry mob

Harvey is a polarising subject amongst some fans. Most of us welcomed the change to Lyon as we felt Harvey had lost his way and also the playing group by the end of 2011. However he does have a few loyal and vocal supporters on here that will defend him to the hilt, no matter what.

I think everyone is on board with Lyon now, it's just that a couple of posters take issue with the way Harvey supposedly gets blamed for everything.

Fwiw I think the truth lays somewhere in the middle...

 

[E Shed]

No. 1 offender has raised his head.

I've been promoted from borderline to the main offender?
Really hitting my KPI's today.

 

[Danny Cullen]

I've been promoted from borderline to the main offender?
Really hitting my KPI's today.

Not you. That post on the main board was probably a little ill directed.

 

[Arcassius]

I've been promoted from borderline to the main offender?
Really hitting my KPI's today.

Just remember to give great effort

 

[Tazmania]

Why can't we accept the past for what it is and enjoy living in the moment instead of hand wringing and brow beating about something we can't do anything about. I'll bet the team isnt stewing over harvey v lyon.

Were in the finals right now! We should be collectively dumping on Adelaide not each other.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Why can't we accept the past for what it is and enjoy living in the moment instead of hand wringing and brow beating about something we can't do anything about. I'll bet the team isnt stewing over harvey v lyon.

Were in the finals right now! We should be collectively dumping on Adelaide not each other.

And cue the Young Ones...

 

[Tazmania]

No matter how much we change we stay the same hey

 

[Proud Bogan]

It's ok. I accept that Reg is wrong and I am right.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

It's ok. I accept that Reg is wrong and I am right.

And I accept that we are moving on, although not necessarily agreeing with you.

 

[Jezzitizle]

Meh, Harvey's last year was destroyed by injuries. Might be said he did well the even have us in finals contention.
Anyway no point in bagging the guy, just say thanks for the efforts, and let it be. So Lyon is a better coach, so what?

It does not mean Harvey didn't make contributions.

 

[theGav56]

Six players were dropped before the end of the 2007 season by Harvey. Players got suspended for drinking mid week. Prior to that, off field incidents involving Freo players happened fairly regularly. By 2010/2011 the only real off field incident was Michael Johnson.

Guys like Farmer were retired despite still having good footy left in them, Peake was traded partly because of his trouble drinking.

Another incident.

http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/broughtons-rocky-road-to-end-in-dockers-debut-20090410-a2ym.html

Who are the players delisted before the end of 2007? Think you are thinking of 2008. Harvey had been at the club for 3 years by then.

 

[theGav56]

Meh, Harvey's last year was destroyed by injuries. Might be said he did well the even have us in finals contention.
Anyway no point in bagging the guy, just say thanks for the efforts, and let it be. So Lyon is a better coach, so what?

It does not mean Harvey didn't make contributions.

He is a better coach, and by getting him we are a better chance to get the best out of our players. That includes injury management. Harvey pumped out a reason each season for why we did not do well. Lyon came in and said we are a no excuses footy club. That is a key differnece.

But you are right, Harvey made significant contributions to the club, and we were better with him than we were before we got him.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Who are the players delisted before the end of 2007? Think you are thinking of 2008. Harvey had been at the club for 3 years by then.

Dropped, not delisted, for disciplinary reasons.

 

[yakka man]

Think about how stupid you are.

Do you actually believe that Ross Lyon would have come to a club where mid week drinking was tolerated? Where off field incidents were brushed off by the club until they got ridiculously out of hand? Where attitudes to training attendance were as low as they were under Connolly?

Harvey laid the ground work. He wasn't able to fulfill the promise, but he did a heap of good stuff. Freo in the past had constantly sought out experienced coaches and been turned down every time. Had Harvey not done a lot to make the place more professional, Lyon would never have shown up.

You strike me as a very new supporter who has forgotten how embarrassing the club could be under Connolly. Headland and family ranting in the press. The coach taking the field and arguing with the opposition after games. Senior players taking younger players out drinking and getting into fights with WAFL players. Senior players getting drunk and fighting police. Subordination from the playing group and constant white anting from senior players.

You conveniently missed the point about the complete rebuild of the list. Also Harvey was at the club while Connolly was coach and the drinking still went on. You obviously have very low standards for a coach. You don't get points for putting a stop to drinking binges during the season. Any half decent coach could do this. You are also very naive to think that it wasn't still going on while Harvey was senior coach. The skin fold levels of players like Johnson, Walters, Pearce etc would be largely to do with alcohol and poor nutrition.

And for gods sake give some credit to the Freo administration. They are the ones who have transformed the club into a professional brand and went after Ross Lyon. Starting with the complete list rebuild. Things were shit under Harvey and they are now looking very good under Ross.

Also note that I acknowledge that good things started to happen at the club while he was coaching but he wasn't responsible for all of them and the state of the playing group was substandard. Inexcusable.

 

[Proud Bogan]

You might be arguing with yourself now Yakka.

And you might want to revise your last sentence in the second paragraph.

 

[Proud SJW]

Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as anyone in the direction that we're (all inclusive) heading. I reckon he is our Malthouse of the early Toasters.

But to state that it feels like he's been here for years is getting a wee bit carried away IMO.

It's obvious from his comments that he still feels a disconnect from where he came from and where he is now. He's gotten a little better with that as the season has progressed. Which is fine, bloke's got a job to do, but don't blow it out of proportion.

I made a post a while back on some other thread about the Lyon/Harvey thing which mentioned something along these lines. I admired Harvey at the time for his (to my mind) undoubted commitment to the FFC which Lyon appeared to be lacking.

As time has gone on and seeing the stone man's reaction to the Geelong win last weekend... as much as he's playing it down, I think Lyon is becoming genuinely proud to be here and it started to seep through a little in spite of himself. With regard to all the "we" and "them", I'm thinking he is definitely feeling a connection to the club, but still working his way into the supporters... witness the "Get off Zak's Back" stuff.
But you can feel it coming. Combine that with the obvious (and let's stop arguing about that... it is obvious) changes in the players attitudes, and I think we're onto something here.

So yeah, I agree... let's not get carried away. This weekend will be a definite indicator. But I swear this season I've been feeling like I'm sitting on the beach after a particularly bad night and watching the sun come up.

 

[yakka man]

You might be arguing with yourself now Yakka.

Do you know what he was carded for?

And you might want to revise your last sentence in the second paragraph.

What do you mean?

 

[Proud Bogan]

Do you know what he was carded for?

Nope.

4 nopes.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I'm a big fan of Ross, never been a big fan of Harvey.

Thing that used to shit me about Harvey's coaching on match day was the shuffling around of players in different positions but within the same structure, hoping for a knockout blow with some unexpected match-up. Lyon doesn't seem to do that so much, he tends to work on the structures. I think his approach is more methodical and less about improvisation.

 

[Seppo]

I'm a big fan of Ross, never been a big fan of Harvey.

Thing that used to shit me about Harvey's coaching on match day was the shuffling around of players in different positions but within the same structure, hoping for a knockout blow with some unexpected match-up. Lyon doesn't seem to do that so much, he tends to work on the structures. I think his approach is more methodical and less about improvisation.

I have woken up to the fact we used to play a lot of 'Lucky dip' football (Lyonism). Takes the heartache out of watching games knowing the players will stick to a game plan and will give great effort.

 

[Righteo]

So Clay's yellow became a red afterall. Pretty out of character tbh. Maybe Clay just couldn't live without his nemesis anymore?

 

[theGav56]

Yeah fair enough. But the point is still the same. He had been at the club long enough to see any disciplinary issues but was slow to re-act imo.

Same with the rebuild. He went the rebuild when there was no other option.

 

[andrew99]

Ask yourself this: Why was our management sounding out possible replacements for Harvey if he was doing a good job? The fact Lyon was contacted in the first place evidences Harvey's performance was suspect.And the people who axed him would know.

Unfortunately, when you sack a coach prematurely, pay out his contract worth 100,000s of dollars and replace him hounded by a media shit storm, there must have been a damn good reason for doing so.


The argument Harvey deserves applause because he was better than out last coach is flawed. So what? The only metric I'm interested in is premiership success. Maybe he did end our drinking culture. This is a positive move. But again, WTF.... you'd have to wonder what kind of joke football club we were running if players were overindulging in wild party sessions while we were getting whipped on the field, and yet for some reason no-one spoke up about it.

I've always had this sinking feeling in my gut, that we were stuck as perennial underachievers. I mean, even in 06, did anyone actually think we were going to win the premiership? It was more like a hushed satisfaction that we ticked off a KPI and now it was justifiable to shut-up-shop.

At least with Lyon you know what your going to get. We can be assured, if we do make it to the MCG next week, and are faced with imposing odds, in the twilight of a successful yet unfinished year no stone will be left unturned in the pursuit of victory.

 

[E Shed]

Harvey embarrassed himself (and made me squirm as a supporter) with his performances in the media toward the end of 2011. Got so I'd turn off the radio if he was talking.