Toast Ross Lyon

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Interesting argument from Clay on here.

When people like me say our recruiting staff are the best we've ever had he says he isn't interested in comparing them to the miserable Freo of the past and that they should only be compared to the best in the business. But when we say Harvey wasn't good enough here he is arguing Harvey deserves credit for being better than coaches we've had in the past.

Sometimes I think he kicks into Bradey mode and just likes arguing for the sake of arguing.
 
andrew99 said:
Ask yourself this: Why was our management sounding out possible replacements for Harvey if he was doing a good job? The fact Lyon was contacted in the first place evidences Harvey's performance was suspect.And the people who axed him would know.
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The club was not sounding out possible replacements. At the time it was well known through the media that St Kilda and Ross Lyon were not coming to an agreement on the contract and both parties were not happy. The management (Freo) at the time did due diligence in asking the question "Would Ross be open to offers" and the rest is history.

If the club was sounding out offers as you say it would not have blind sided everyone as it did.
 
Cray Davis said:
When has that ever been the argument?

My point is that our recruitment isn't the best in the league that every loves to go on about. It is squarely average recruiting. Neither was Harvey the devil he is made out here.

He was an average match day coach who eventually succumbed to making excuses when he ran out of ideas. But to attribute all the change at the club to Ross Lyon is a pretty flagrant rewrite of history.
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I wasn't talking to you n00b.
 

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Cray Davis said:
He reacted within four games of taking over. Not sure how it could be quicker.

Unless as assistant coach you expected him to usurp the senior coach and sack players for drinking midweek.
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I expect a coach stepping up from being an assistant at a club for a reasonable amount of time, and especially as heir apparent, to have partly got the job because he has a very clear vision of what he thinks the players are capable of.
 
Cray Davis said:
This is jumping to conclusions without any basis.

You can get fat without touching a drop of booze.
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It is an assumption, but one that has a strong chance of being correct. If the players are so poor on their nutrition then alcohol consumption falls into the same category. Regardless they are still very poor standards from a senior coach and not a good representation of a strong team culture.
 
Cray Davis said:
No, it doesn't. You're just straight out making up bullshit.


What are? Skinfolds? How do you reckon Dane Swan would go in the skinfolds test?
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Obviously you know very little about nutrition. With the amount of training AFL players do it is very hard to be overweight without excess drinking. And Dane Swan has good skinfolds, his teammates have said so.

Your argument is so weak. Again you have not mentioned the list rebuild. The real reason behind our beginning change in club culture.
 
E Shed said:
Cray Davis "I'm so ronery".
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Goddammit Cray, open your ****ing ears!

kim-jong-il-in-team-america-400x266.jpg
 
yakka man said:
Obviously you know very little about nutrition. With the amount of training AFL players do it is very hard to be overweight without excess drinking.
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Sorry, that is utter garbage. All it requires is to eat more than you burn off. A couple of extra buckets of KFC a week could do it. Slackness in training could do it.

Saying that the midweek drinking culture remained because Michael Walters returned from the offseason overweight is an illogical leap of faith.

Your argument is so weak. Again you have not mentioned the list rebuild. The real reason behind our beginning change in club culture.
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What about the list rebuild? The change started as soon as Mark Harvey took over. Tolerance for midweek drinking and missed training attendances stopped immediately. That was before Bond, Lloyd, Scott, the Steves et al arrived at the club. Before the list rebuild. You have no evidence to suggest that it continued to be tolerated.

If you want to criticise Mark Harvey, go right ahead. There is plenty to criticise him on. Making up lies to slander his name in order to paint him as the devil is just weak. Denying he did any good is also piss weak.

(But not surprising from someone who had a mental meltdown when I suggested at the start of this season that Morabito would struggle with leg injuries for the rest of his career)
 
Why dwell on this? Harvey was never going to take the club to a premiership. We now have a coach that can. No one died ffs, the end justifies the means.
 
magnus34 said:
Why dwell on this? Harvey was never going to take the club to a premiership. We now have a coach that can. No one died ffs, the end justifies the means.
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Indeed, why dwell on it? Possibly because there are many posters on this board who can't help sinking the boots into Harvey's carcass even though he's gone. They won't say a kind word about RTB without sprinkling a bit of Harvey hate on top. Why do they dwell on it, who knows? But while they do, it will continue to be discussed.

Neither of the two things I have highlighted above have been proven by the way. One we may find out in time, the other we will never know.
 

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At least Freo finally got ruthless to pursue a coach with AFL experience, but if the previous administration had kept it silent on Worsfold
and done a deal, would we be having this discussion?
Mark Harvey does deserve credit for fixing Connellys mistakes, Im just glad where we are, we could be like Melbourne.
 
So all this came about because of a tweet from Solomon? Who gives a s*** what happened in Harvey's tenure.. the results from 2012 and supposed turnaround in "culture" comes down to who is at the club in 2012.. and if we go back to 2011 type football / results next year then guess who is the blame.. Lyon and whoever is at the club in 2013.

Why should Harvey get any credit for whats happened this year.. he is thousands of km's away with no influence on anything thats happened this year
 
Craig David said:
Sorry, that is utter garbage. All it requires is to eat more than you burn off. A couple of extra buckets of KFC a week could do it. Slackness in training could do it.

Saying that the midweek drinking culture remained because Michael Walters returned from the offseason overweight is an illogical leap of faith.


What about the list rebuild? The change started as soon as Mark Harvey took over. Tolerance for midweek drinking and missed training attendances stopped immediately. That was before Bond, Lloyd, Scott, the Steves et al arrived at the club. Before the list rebuild. You have no evidence to suggest that it continued to be tolerated.

If you want to criticise Mark Harvey, go right ahead. There is plenty to criticise him on. Making up lies to slander his name in order to paint him as the devil is just weak. Denying he did any good is also piss weak.

(But not surprising from someone who had a mental meltdown when I suggested at the start of this season that Morabito would struggle with leg injuries for the rest of his career)
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If a professional AFL player has no problems pigging out on junk food all the time then they wouldn't care about consuming alcohol. That is common sense Clay. Don't be naive. Any coach worth his salt could stop AFL players from excessive drinking.

The fact that this is the main positive you can think of when it comes to Harvey's reign is bad enough. What about his bad injury management? And I suppose playing Pav in the midfield was a masterstroke?

The list rebuild happened because we had one of the oldest, shittest lists in the competition and at the same time were paying most of the salary cap. It wasn't because of Harvey.

And to add to this do you have any factual proof that Harvey stopped the drinking binges? Do you know for sure that is wasn't the club administration? Or the players? Or Chris Scott? Or even that it did in fact stop. Johnson was caught with Coke while Harvey was at the club or have you forgotten about that?

I'm not making up lies. One of the first things Ross did when arriving was make most of the playing lose weight which is strong evidence that Mark Harvey had the playing list in pathetic shape from poor nutrition. And drinking alcohol falls under that category. This is unforgivable and it is why I am glad that he has gone. Because the club finally has standards.
 
I'm not interested in knowing we have a coach. No. Not at all. I want to see the money, time and risk we took appointing Lyon is worthwhile and paying dividends. And I want to know why, what and how Lyon has changed the club for the better. We can't do this without comparing what's happening now with Harvey's tenure. Sorry.

Another perspective: If Lyon is no better than Harvey then we made a mistake. Any good business, of course, needs to be check if we did indeed make the right decision. The harvey "metric" is the best way we can do that.

Reginald Perrin said:
Indeed, why dwell on it? Possibly because there are many posters on this board who can't help sinking the boots into Harvey's carcass even though he's gone. They won't say a kind word about RTB without sprinkling a bit of Harvey hate on top. Why do they dwell on it, who knows? But while they do, it will continue to be discussed.

Neither of the two things I have highlighted above have been proven by the way. One we may find out in time, the other we will never know.
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Hmmm... I've read some more of the comments people have posted here, and regrettably Dockerland. Reading what I've seen, you'd think we were running a suburban soccer club, rather than a multimillion dollar, highly complex corporate enterprise like Fremantle FC.. When so much money, and the hopes and emotions of thousands are at stake, there is no room for niceties. I would actually hope an appraisal/review of Lyon's capabilities, strengths/weaknesses and contributions to the club is made, contrasted next to his predecessor. If this is not done (and done objectively and with ruthless & thorough professionalism) , and little foresight was shown in the Lyon appointment itself, the board should be sacked.
 
The biggest thing that impressed me was that we did not flirt with form to tank the Melbourne game to get an easy home final (at least that's what the media wanted) . From that moment on I felt we were a real chance against the Cats.
If we can beat the Cats we can beat anyone anywhere anytime.

Trivia Question: Who was the last coach with a zip-3 record in grand finals to change clubs and take a 12th placed side with 8 wins all the way in his first year?
 
Ripper said:
The biggest thing that impressed me was that we did not flirt with form to tank the Melbourne game to get an easy home final (at least that's what the media wanted) . From that moment on I felt we were a real chance against the Cats.
If we can beat the Cats we can beat anyone anywhere anytime.

Trivia Question: Who was the last coach with a zip-3 record in grand finals to change clubs and take a 12th placed side with 8 wins all the way in his first year?
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I must say, at least in thought, the "tanking" option played across my mind. I'm so glad we didn't even consider messing with our (new) winning culture.

I don't know, if I was charged with making the decisions, if I could be strong enough to do the same. We took the hard option, and it turned out to be the best option.

As to your trivia question: I don't know. I'm not so great with my history of the game.
 
fixing connolly mistakes? to date chris connolly has had the best record for the dockers. I think the injury to justin longmuir longterm really hurt his team. hoping ross lyon can improve on his record
 

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