Preview Round 1: Essendon vs Hawthorne, MCG, Saturday 16/03/24 @ 1:45 PM

[bombreys]

If i look at the age brackets.

Older than 28.5
Hawks - Sicily, Frost, Amon, Impey, Breust, Gunston
Dons - Goldy, Heppell, Stringer, Kelly

24+
Hawks - Chol. Hardwick, Nash, Scrimhaw, Lewis, Reeves, Worpel, Moore,
Dons - McGrath, Setterfield, Mckay, Redman, Gresham, Guelfi, Wright, Merrett, Langford

Less than 24
Hawks - Finn, Ward, Ginnivan, Newcombe, Weddle, Mass, MacKenzie, MacDonald, Watson
Dons - Reid, Tsatas, Caldwell, martin, Perkins, Cox, Durham, Menzie, Duursma, Jones

In the oldest bracket, we're not reliant on any of those guys other than depth. Fit Draper, Ridley, Hobbs & Parish would see them out.
CJ and Day are the two major outs i'd see ahead of the hawks. None cover the guys in that bracket for them. So there's a heavy defensive reliance on older players.

We could very easily play them with a side minus anyone over 29...depending on which stringer turns up.
Hawks are a 10 goal loss without all 6 in that bracket.

Some perspective on the age thing.

That’s just made up/opinion though.

The injuries you listed would just make us even older too - Ridley would come in for Cox, not Heppell. Hobbs for Menzie. Parish for Tsatas. Draper for Jones.

It is a fact that we are not young.

 

[eth-dog]

That’s just made up/opinion though.

The injuries you listed would just make us even older too - Ridley would come in for Cox, not Heppell. Hobbs for Menzie. Parish for Tsatas. Draper for Jones.

It is a fact that we are not young.

That's your opinion.

We have the 12th oldest list. The 7th most experienced. Those are facts.

 

[citizen-erased]

That’s just made up/opinion though.

The injuries you listed would just make us even older too - Ridley would come in for Cox, not Heppell. Hobbs for Menzie. Parish for Tsatas. Draper for Jones.

It is a fact that we are not young.

I'd say Hobbs for Guelfi and Ridley for Hepp, maybe Kelly but ideally Cox isn't playing wing, Kelly is.
ridley and cox played throughout the preseason in the same side. Tsatas and Parish as well.
Draper for Jones, sure. But that's a symptom of Goldy only really being a ruck, and better than Draper, and Jones really struggling.
When ready, Caddy would step in for Goldy/Jones.

our best 22 by mid year could well be;
ridley - mckay - mcgrath
redman - reid - martin
duursma - setterfield - durham
langford - Jones (could be Caddy) - gresham
Menzie - wright - stringer (could be perkins/Caddy)
Draper - Merrett - Parish
with bench & depth of Hobbs - tsatas - caldwell - cox - perkins - davey

 

[bombreys]

That's your opinion.

We have the 12th oldest list. The 7th most experienced. Those are facts.

The hypothetical changes are my opinion - the age of the guys that play are fact at AFL level are fact.

The age of the list is irrelevant on gameday.

 

[eth-dog]

The hypothetical changes are my opinion - the age of the guys that play are fact at AFL level are fact.

The age of the list is irrelevant on gameday.

Because it doesn't suit your agenda. The fact is that we're the 7th youngest list.

 

[bombreys]

I'd say Hobbs for Guelfi and Ridley for Hepp, maybe Kelly but ideally Cox isn't playing wing, Kelly is.
ridley and cox played throughout the preseason in the same side. Tsatas and Parish as well.
Draper for Jones, sure. But that's a symptom of Goldy only really being a ruck, and better than Draper, and Jones really struggling.
When ready, Caddy would step in for Goldy/Jones.

our best 22 by mid year could well be;
ridley - mckay - mcgrath
redman - reid - martin
duursma - setterfield - durham
langford - Jones (could be Caddy) - gresham
Menzie - wright - stringer (could be perkins/Caddy)
Draper - Merrett - Parish
with bench & depth of Hobbs - tsatas - caldwell - cox - perkins - davey

Agree with a lot, but can’t see any planet where Scott would drop Goldy for a first gamer. Goes against every move he’s ever made as a coach. And I can’t see him ever taking Heppell out - I think he’s best 22 until he decides to retire.

 

[citizen-erased]

Agree with a lot, but can’t see any planet where Scott would drop Goldy for a first gamer. Goes against every move he’s ever made as a coach. And I can’t see him ever taking Heppell out - I think he’s best 22 until he decides to retire.

well, there is that. but its also not time for Caddy. Injury and he's a kid v Goldy who is a monster ruck who is still going well. fact is he's our #1 ruck right now.

but its Draper's spot to take back for mine. When ready, Caddy will push Jones or Wright or Stringer (perkins could too with stringer).

Cox similarly. He has a chance now to make a case to stay in when Ridley is back....but that's on him, not Brad, to force that.He needs a run of games that show his value. Make it about Ridley coming in for Heppell.

 

[bombreys]

Because it doesn't suit your agenda. The fact is that we're the 7th youngest list.

Caddy, Luol and Roberts being 18/19 and playing in the twos brings down the average age of our list - it doesn’t have any impact on game day in the AFL though.

It suits your agenda, but it is of absolutely no relevance to gameday.

 

[jdstorm]

When is Jones going to be expected to kick goals? He barely has a scoring shot. Sure he does some things up the ground, but it's not enough. If he goes goalless again or kicks one goal, then Caddy needs to come in next week.

Caddy’s been injured and underdone.

I’d imagine Jones is in competition with Bryan, and Draper for that 2nd ruck/3rd tall spot

 

[bombreys]

well, there is that. but its also not time for Caddy. Injury and he's a kid v Goldy who is a monster ruck who is still going well. fact is he's our #1 ruck right now.

but its Draper's spot to take back for mine. When ready, Caddy will push Jones or Wright or Stringer (perkins could too with stringer).

Cox similarly. He has a chance now to make a case to stay in when Ridley is back....but that's on him, not Brad, to force that.He needs a run of games that show his value. Make it about Ridley coming in for Heppell.

Agree re Caddy. If he’s not ready, of course he shouldn’t play.

I also don’t disagree with playing Goldy at all - he’s still (at least close to) an elite tap ruckman. And he is fine around the ground.

Are Heppell and Kelly really best 22 though? Or are they just playing because they’re Scott’s favourites and he likes playing the older guys?

 

[JayJ20]

Caddy’s been injured and underdone.

I’d imagine Jones is in competition with Bryan, and Draper for that 2nd ruck/3rd tall spot

Yeah I understand which is why he isn't in, but if Caddy does well and Jones maintains his form, then I wouldn't hesitate to make the switch.

 

[zigipop]

“It's really important for our supporters - and our supporters have been fantastic - to clearly delineate between the understandable frustration between the last 20 years," Scott said on Wednesday.

"Anyone would be frustrated with our lack of finals performances, and anyone would be frustrated with the last 20 years.

"We want to build a really sustainable high performing football club, and that takes time. Supporters I talk to understand that.


"They don't want short-term sugar hits and they don't want unfulfilled promises.

"They want us to build a really stable solid base so that we can be a regular contender against the best teams."

Don’t fret selections week to week, chaps. This is an eight year build. We just need to delineate and extract learnings as they present themselves throughout the next decade in order to get back on track.

Gooooo Bombers!!!

 

[doug85]

a cop out Ethan, and an excuse. PS it was 3 finals sides, GWS, Sydney and Collingwood. The rest didn't make finals, and in Gelongs case they finished below us and WB one win above us.

• R18 - Geelong - yeah sure, likely loss at GMHBA, But by 80 points lol.? They finished BELOW us on the ladder.
• R19 - Dogs - winnable yet we get smashed. Finished one game above us on the ladder.
• R20 - Swans - we own them in Melbourne at Marvel. yet lose.
• R21 - beat West coast by a point. lol.
• R22 - Beat Nth by a couple of goals lol.
• R23 - annihilated by GWS. Just 100 points or so.
• R24 - destroyed by Collingwood. Just 70 points this time.

Call me a pessimist but that last 6-7 games was disgusting to watch. IDC if we are young or not. Losing in the manner we did was insipid. We had a chance coming 5th at the time and we completely cooked it.

The only team near the top 4 in the above was Collingwood. Everyone else 7th or worse. Like i said an easier draw than most at the time.

Injury destroyed our finish to the season. We played a bunch of guys that should’ve been no where near a football field and it backfired massively. It was a desperate gamble we took to make the finals. Unfortunately, it casts a negative light on the whole season.

We’re not as bad as the last 6 weeks of 2023.

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

From memory a lot were melting last year when Hepp played on after a pretty average 22. In reality I think he had a fairly solid 23...better than most expected. As more of the injured players get time into them and are seen as AFL ready selection pressure will get him.

 

[citizen-erased]

Agree re Caddy. If he’s not ready, of course he shouldn’t play.

I also don’t disagree with playing Goldy at all - he’s still (at least close to) an elite tap ruckman. And he is fine around the ground.

Are Heppell and Kelly really best 22 though? Or are they just playing because they’re Scott’s favourites and he likes playing the older guys?

in absence of Parish & Ridley, ill say yes
I dont see who is missing because of them. Hobbs is returning from injury. Caddy too, and not ready. Parish and Ridley are injured.

id be more worried if Cox was dropped given he's good to play.
I get the sentiment with the "old favourites" but they strike me more as necessity than anything right now.

 

[andleanback]

What are the planned match ups down back - its abit of a head scratcher
Watson - Mcgrath
Moore - Redman
Bruest - Kelly
Ginnivan - Hep

I’d say moore plays more midfield. Ginnivan will get redman me thinks

 

[Darealrath]

TIL Gunston is back at hawthorn.

Obviously haven't followed pre season but quite concerned we're missing 2 of our 3 best players. Look very thin for top end talent so going to need a big team performance.

 

[faible]

Thanks Dyson.

Doesn't look like Brad has changed at all since his North days. He wants 8 years of patience, if that's the case then play talented young players then mate? Not a bloke who's best work these days is with charity. Heppell should have retired two years ago.

Such a disappointment this team selection, Hobbs should be in over Guelfi. He should have been given a spot the moment Parish went out. Hind, over Heppell. I don't mind Kelly in, but I'd also have him out happily. I loved the wing combination of Martin and Durham last year.

We went over this last year, pretty much every young player that was fit and in form to play, played.

Voss could have played, and Wanganeen got injured when he showed a good run of form. The rest all played.

It's a pretty misleading take on things IMO.

Heppell comes in to replace Ridley, not Parish. I don't agree it's necessary given McGrath & Redman should be plenty experienced.

Caldwell, Durham and Tsatas likely pick up Parish's midfield minutes, Kelly comes in to support Martin's HBF role as he was training all off-season.

Hobbs probably could have come in, but it would mean either no Kelly to support Martin running riot off a HBF, or praying Cox can replace Ridley's intercept marking (the one thing Heppell was still very good at was his read of the ball in play to be able to position himself to intercept mark).

 

[andleanback]

exactly the point of norf supporting buddy of mine said. brad's a fine coach but he refused to play youth while he coached at north. some of his selections last year (such as keeping dyson in the side while he was playing shocking football week after week) showed that it was reasonably accurate.

He’s chosen youth at essendon though, just a few players that are his favorites get first crack is the actual issue. Last year cox came back in as soon as he was fit. Tsatas got cakes to close out the year. Reid is starting the year at full back. Cox is getting a spot in the back 6 over laverde. aDJ started in r1 last year. Menzie played the entire year. It’s a bit different to north

 

[Ati Tude]

“It's really important for our supporters - and our supporters have been fantastic - to clearly delineate between the understandable frustration between the last 20 years," Scott said on Wednesday.

"Anyone would be frustrated with our lack of finals performances, and anyone would be frustrated with the last 20 years.

"We want to build a really sustainable high performing football club, and that takes time. Supporters I talk to understand that.


"They don't want short-term sugar hits and they don't want unfulfilled promises.

"They want us to build a really stable solid base so that we can be a regular contender against the best teams."

Don’t fret selections week to week, chaps. This is an eight year build. We just need to delineate and extract learnings as they present themselves throughout the next decade in order to get back on track.

Gooooo Bombers!!!

F$@k it. Give me my goddamn sugar hit. Give it to me now Brad. I can’t take the withdrawal any longer. Hit me chief, hit me.

 

[Call Me Cake]

I think the context a lot of people miss is the quality of the not many veterans on our list in comparison to others in the league and if they're a part of our long term goal.

Even though the oldest players on our list are serviceable depth, they do not compare to the veterans that are pivotal to other sides with most of their 200-300+ gamers being key contributers to their sides and their potential in results, while ours are not and are on the verge of being pushed out/rested with most not being around past 2024. Perspective is needed.

 

[ant555]

Tipping Mass will have 20 plus possessions. We will just let him run loose. People will melt .

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Tipping Mass will have 20 plus possessions. We will just let him run loose. People will melt .

Maybe, but surely they drill down oh his obviously weakness, that caused us to be happy to let him go. His softness and utter aversion to any physical contact. Smash him up a bit and watch him go to water

 

[ant555]

Maybe, but surely they drill down oh his obviously weakness, that caused us to be happy to let him go. His softness and utter aversion to any physical contact. Smash him up a bit and watch him go to water

You would hope so but physical is not always our thing.

 

[fairbump_playon]

You would hope so but physical is not always our thing.

"not always"... or almost never?