Preview Round 1 team

[Pure_Ownage]

No way Motlop is ahead of Stokes.

I think you'll find Chris Scott thinks he is, bookmark it for when it happens.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

That's a REALLY slow backline...

It is, but it's the best back six on form (which is how you should pick a side) so unless you jettison Lonergan for another runner then there's not much we can do about it. I considered that option but I found it hard to justify given Lonergan played pretty well this week.

 

[catempire]

I think you'll find Chris Scott thinks he is, bookmark it for when it happens.

What gives you that impression?

 

[you pick one]

I think you'll find Chris Scott thinks he is, bookmark it for when it happens.

As I said previously Stokes will be part of the midfield rotation opening up a spot for Duncan on the forward line.Motlops turn will come but not necessarily at the expense of Stokes.Well not this year anyway.

 

[AM]

It is, but it's the best back six on form (which is how you should pick a side) so unless you jettison Lonergan for another runner then there's not much we can do about it. I considered that option but I found it hard to justify given Lonergan played pretty well this week.

I'm all for the merit principle but if we play that inflexible slow backline against the top sides we'll get pumped and with no upside.

The top sides are now playing one or two creative running players in the back half. Even Collingwood has moved to add to those elements by playing Davis there.

I'd persevere with Taylor Hunt and possibly Mitch Duncan. Even Trav when it suited our game day plan. So many attacking moves start in the back half it's essential we ensure we have run there.

We're not going to get the chocolates this year so we might as well attempt to blend in a youngster or two to at least give us an inkling of who will be in our next premiership team.

Collingwood cracked open that backline with ease last year. The ancients aren't going to get any better and as the competition at the top is intensifying it's only going to be tougher. If we are to get smashed by the likes of Collingwood I'd prefer it to be while we're trying set-ups that weren't found wanting when it counted last year.

 

[CF]

We are going to have to go in with something like this:

B: J Hunt Scarlett Lonergan
HB: Enright Taylor Milburn
C: Wojcinski Kelly Varcoe
HF: Johnson West Duncan
F: Stokes Hawkins Chapman
R: Blake Selwood Bartel
Int: Mackie Corey Byrnes
Sub: Menzel/T Hunt

Given Ling, Podsiadly and Mooney unfit.

Ottens cannot play in this state, and so Blake at least for Round 1 otherwise we'll be mauled. Should give us first use of the footy from the middle.

West should play second ruck/second tall forward. Hawkins down there too.

Stokes clearly needed as we are going to have to kick some goals to win.

I think this is the most likely outcome but Mackay is a chance as well and I think given that Mooney & Pods are injured Ottens will play as he provides another forward option.

 

[Partridge]

B: JHunt Scarlett Lonergan
HB: Enright Taylor Milburn
C: Wojo Kelly Varcoe
HF: SJ Podsiadly Duncan
F: Byrnes Hawkins Chapman
R: Ottens Selwood Bartel
Int: West Corey THunt Sub: Menzel/Motlop

Emg: Stokes Simpson Mackie

This is tough. Really tough. Part of me thinks if we field a backline like that we haven't learn anything since September. I'd be inclined to swap Taylor Hunt for Josh, and put Wojo back there and Lonergan on the bench. Otherwise it's just too slow.

Now that Pods is most likely out too, I can't believe I'm saying this, perhaps Lonergan has to go forward with Hawkins. There is unfortunately no one else. Unless we play a really open forward line, with Johnson and Chappy permanently down there and throw West down for spells.

Again, really tough.

 

[costanza23]

B: Enright, Scarlett, Milburn
HB: Corey, Taylor, J. Hunt
C: Varcoe, Selwood, Mackie
HF: Stokes, Hawkins, Chapman
F: S. Johnson, Ottens, Byrnes
R: Blake, Bartel, Kelly

Int: West, Duncan, Menzel
Sub: Wojcinski

Emg: Lonergan, Hogan and Motlop/T. Hunt

I’ve read that Corey is supposed to be playing more down back this year, like he did at the end of last year. Got to keep the backline not as tall as we did in the finals last year. Can't have Scarlett, Taylor, Milburn and Lonergan.

Move Mackie up the ground. Play him on the wing, less accountable and can do his runs through the midfield like he did back in 07, 08.

Might have to be like the good old days and just plonk Otto in the goalsquare for the first few rounds. The Saints’ tallest defender is Zac Dawson?? Brown’s still too light for KPF. Leftfield is to maybe play Bartel CHF or SJohnno at FF. Both can play tall.

As much as I hate it, Blake might play Round 1 due to Pods and Mooney being out. Alternate Otto and West between 2nd ruck and FF.

Wojcinski will be a good sub. He’ll get to dash around in the 2nd half of a match while others are tiring out.

 

[BIGANT]

I'm all for the merit principle but if we play that inflexible slow backline against the top sides we'll get pumped and with no upside.

The top sides are now playing one or two creative running players in the back half. Even Collingwood has moved to add to those elements by playing Davis there.

I'd persevere with Taylor Hunt and possibly Mitch Duncan. Even Trav when it suited our game day plan. So many attacking moves start in the back half it's essential we ensure we have run there.

We're not going to get the chocolates this year so we might as well attempt to blend in a youngster or two to at least give us an inkling of who will be in our next premiership team.

Collingwood cracked open that backline with ease last year. The ancients aren't going to get any better and as the competition at the top is intensifying it's only going to be tougher. If we are to get smashed by the likes of Collingwood I'd prefer it to be while we're trying set-ups that weren't found wanting when it counted last year.

Like Agree totally we have to move forward beit if we do take two steps back this year.
If we can make top4 - top6 with subtle changes that has to made...time's come.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Milburn and Mackie have nearly identicle body shapes
Milburn looks like he never put on much muscle either over his long career, probably more genetics than laziness.
I'm similar although no longer play footy but have strained away in the gym for years for no gain unless getting into those rotten protein shakes etc but some guys just hit the weights and can build up within 3 to 5 years and others may only get more definition and no bulk.

 

[Ninty]

Surely Stokes has to be played over Motlop... Stokes was also much better in his couple of games.

But hey, it's popular to bag Stokes at the moment on here.

 

[Turbocat]

B JHunt Scarlett Milburn
HB Enright Taylor Menzel
C Varcoe Corey Duncan
HF SJ Bartel Chapman
F West Hawkins Motlop
R Blake Kelly Selwood

I Wojo , Lonergan , Stokes , (Byrnes) ,
E Mackie , Horlin-Smith , Hogan

I acknowledge its my team not what I think will be picked. I have put a couple in that are probably lucky , left a couple out , unlucky , but I want fresh this year and for that to happen I want 3 new names each week min. Menzel and Duncan are long term guys for us and the sooner they are considered regulars the better.

My thinking is Motlop is just like Varcoe a few years ago. We must pay the toll on him , give him as many games as we can the next 3 years and then reap the benefits down the track cause he has more talent than 75% of our list. He probably wont last more than 10 anyway so lets get them in early.

Hogan probably will find his way in somehow , more likely at the expense of Motlop or the risky picks of Varcoe and Corey who may be underdone , if they are not up to it then Hogan definitely gets a gig. Its not so much that I love Hogan , its just he's been here 4 year , its time for him to do it or why the hell did we keep him round. He's on on-baller not a tall.

It's my complaint with Mackie. He plays the role that one could ask of a far less experience player. From what I have seen HorlinSmith could very soon be the sweeper with good delivery. Mackie been here since 02 , its time the guy stepped up and played where the side needs him , not make the side play him where it suits Mackie. He is talented by foot so he could be back very quickly because its probably Milburn or him. JHunt is sort of the same , he has several guys like Guthrie and very soon Smedts , breathing down his neck for his position. He needs to show plenty of that midfield toughness playing a bit more upfield. Lonergan is lucky too. Playing the saints I think will need him. Scarlo,Enright ,Taylor are autos

Bartel at CHF is a reflection of his fixman factor. He can play anywhere ( is he sort what Baldock was like ?) but with Ling out we need his marking ability forward.SJ and Chappy add class , Hawkins and West can raffle the forward duties , the extra height should help Hawk , and also extra ruck duties and Motlop give speed and a bit of flair.

Wojo and Stokes adds a bit more run, Stokes can cover Motlop if he gets lost.

 

[maxy87]

I think we should revisit this discussion after the port game on Friday. Hopefully a few more regulars will play and we'll get a better idea. We've been so spoilt over the last few years that perhaps we're putting a bit too much onus on some of these younger guys...

Duncan should play. Was very busy and will benefit from being surrounded by a stronger team come round 1.

If moons and pods aren't fit, we may have to keep brown at FF and play Hawk at CHF. Not overly ideal but at least it'll give both good exposure.

I'd keep the backline pretty much the same as last year as pointed out and have a few players (T Hunt included) rotating through there. Mackie is a little on the laid back side, yes but a few of the comments on here a tad harsh IMO.

Motlop is too lean at the moment and I probably wouldn't risk him against a fairly physical Saints outfit just yet

In the end, whatever the coaching staff decide to do I will understand where they're coming from

 

[Turkey Tom]

Still a bit of water to flow under the bridge but I think:-
If Dawson Simpson puts in a half decent effort in the remaining practice matches he has to play.
Duncan has to play.
Menzel has been ok in the NAB cup so is a bit of a chance.

Seniors players that have to be in trouble going on their form so far:-
Mackie, J.Hunt, Blake, Ottens.

Plus there is a string of injured players that won't be available or will be underdone by round 1.

 

[vinum coupe]

Ok, I'll play. Not that it matters. There will be huge debate on the Thursday before rnd 1

B: Enright Scarlett Kelly
HB: Mackie Taylor Wojo
C: Duncan Bartel T Hunt
HF: Varcoe SJ Chapman
F: Menzel Hawkins J Hunt
R: Ottens Selwood Hogan
Int: Blake Corey Lonergan

Sub: Milburn

Emerg: Stokes,West, Motlop

Yes SJ @ CHF
Just go smaller and work heavily on defensive pressure.
Blake is there because I don't trust Ottens yet.

And my entire Bench/Sub is too slow !!!

 

[Pure_Ownage]

This is tough. Really tough. Part of me thinks if we field a backline like that we haven't learn anything since September. I'd be inclined to swap Taylor Hunt for Josh, and put Wojo back there and Lonergan on the bench. Otherwise it's just too slow.

Now that Pods is most likely out too, I can't believe I'm saying this, perhaps Lonergan has to go forward with Hawkins. There is unfortunately no one else. Unless we play a really open forward line, with Johnson and Chappy permanently down there and throw West down for spells.

Again, really tough.

Agree Partridge.

I'm torn too because on one hand that backline is too slow, but it's our best back six on form and I've been saying all summer we should pick the side on merit (form) so I found it really hard to pick a different backline. Maybe we have to though regardless of form.

Ideally Milburn would have been superceded, Lonergan would have had poor form, or Taylor and Scarlo had such good NAB Cups that we feel we can take in only 2 talls, and Poodle improved that much that he sends someone to the VFL, but those three things haven't happened yet.

You could send Lonergan forward, and that would make the backline quicker, but I think the coaching staff have given up on him there. West would actually be a better forward option than Lonners.

Maybe we need to shift someone else but I can't see who, doubt Josh will go forward (even though I like the idea) and doubt Milburn will either. It is a conundrum.

 

[vinum coupe]

This is my first attempt at picking the starting 22, keeping in mind that Ling, Moons & Pods won't play, so here goes.......

B: J Hunt Scarlett Lonergan
HB: Enright Taylor Milburn
C: Wojo Kelly Varcoe
HF: SJ West Duncan
F: Byrnes Hawkins Chapman
R: Ottens Selwood Bartel
Int: Simpson Corey T Hunt

Sub: Stokes

Emerg: Mackie, Menzel, Motlop

Ok, how'd I go? Fire away.

Let me be a smarty pants for a second.
Let's assume that team is spot on. And Ling, Mooney and Pods are all available for rnd 2.
Who goes out?

I'm tipping your team will end up looking like the prelim team.

 

[SJ]

It is, but it's the best back six on form (which is how you should pick a side) so unless you jettison Lonergan for another runner then there's not much we can do about it. I considered that option but I found it hard to justify given Lonergan played pretty well this week.

I wouldn't say that's how you pick a side. You pick a side on structure, rather than the 22 best players on a list.

In the same way you pick the best defensive unit on structure, rather than the best seven defenders on the list.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We are going to have to go in with something like this:

B: J Hunt Scarlett Lonergan
HB: Enright Taylor Milburn
C: Wojcinski Kelly Varcoe
HF: Johnson West Duncan
F: Stokes Hawkins Chapman
R: Blake Selwood Bartel
Int: Mackie Corey Byrnes
Sub: Menzel/T Hunt

Given Ling, Podsiadly and Mooney unfit.

Ottens cannot play in this state, and so Blake at least for Round 1 otherwise we'll be mauled. Should give us first use of the footy from the middle.

West should play second ruck/second tall forward. Hawkins down there too.

Stokes clearly needed as we are going to have to kick some goals to win.

While I agree with you on Ottens, I'd rather Dawson play over Blake.

But it's a moot point because they won't drop Ottens round 1 anyway. They might by round 10 if he's still in this state but they'll give him time first.

I agree on West, if Pods and Mooney are unfit he's the one. B Johnson can't be elevated and in any case isn't in great form, and Brown's just a baby who'll repeat Motlop's debut if we play him.

West can actually take a grab as we've seen, he can cover the ground and he's good below his knees. He's done the role in the VFL so it's a logical call. He won't be anywhere near as good as Pods because he's not as quick, but he should at least provide a contest.

The issue becomes then, do we go in one tall short (i.e. only one tall forward when West is rucking) as we did in rounds 12 and 13 last year, or do we try and have 2 tall forwards and 2 rucks by putting in another tall as well as West.

That would be my preference, but the interchange rules count against that a bit especially since none of our ruckmen bar West or Vardy are that mobile.

That may be the left field option (Hawkins, West and Vardy, with Vardy mainly forward rather than the ruck)...it would be a big call to debut him under those circumstances but I wouldn't discount it. It would give us the advantage of really working McEvoy over as he'll basically have to ruck solo.

Personally I'd just go West and go more smaller when he's rucking...make SJ the target and have Jimmy and Chappy spend time there if we can, still should get a winning score from that.

Lastly, if Mackie plays ahead of Menzel or THunt the selectors have rocks in their heads and clearly haven't watched us so far in 2011.

I think we should revisit this discussion after the port game on Friday. Hopefully a few more regulars will play and we'll get a better idea. We've been so spoilt over the last few years that perhaps we're putting a bit too much onus on some of these younger guys...

Duncan should play. Was very busy and will benefit from being surrounded by a stronger team come round 1.

If moons and pods aren't fit, we may have to keep brown at FF and play Hawk at CHF. Not overly ideal but at least it'll give both good exposure.

I'd keep the backline pretty much the same as last year as pointed out and have a few players (T Hunt included) rotating through there. Mackie is a little on the laid back side, yes but a few of the comments on here a tad harsh IMO.

Motlop is too lean at the moment and I probably wouldn't risk him against a fairly physical Saints outfit just yet

In the end, whatever the coaching staff decide to do I will understand where they're coming from

You think Motlop's too lean but you don't think Mitch Brown is? There's a contradiction if ever I've heard one.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I wouldn't say that's how you pick a side. You pick a side on structure, rather than the 22 best players on a list.

In the same way you pick the best defensive unit on structure, rather than the best seven defenders on the list.

I agree you pick a side on structure, after all that's why you pick 2 ruckmen not four.

What I'm saying is, do you justify omitting a player purely based on structure if the player is in the best 22 on form, and the alternative player you're bringing in (whoever that is) isn't in better form.

Maybe you do, you're right, and Ammo is right in the sense that the prelim showed that slow backline is too easily exploited.

It will be a hard call for the selectors to make though, for example in Lonergan's case where he's been in good form, and the Saints look like going with a taller forward structure, to omit him anyway to deal with the slowness of our backline. It will be interesting to see what they do.

 

[SJ]

Lastly, if Mackie plays ahead of Menzel or THunt the selectors have rocks in their heads and clearly haven't watched us so far in 2011.

So far this year Taylor Hunt has shown very little and not sure if Menzel warrants a game just yet either (although he's done nothing wrong). Apart from a couple of typical things Mackie hasn't been too bad, and he'll play.

I actually think I'd change my side to this (the same 22 but in a different order), with Mackie on a wing:

B: J Hunt Scarlett Lonergan
HB: Enright Taylor Wojcinski
C: Mackie Kelly Varcoe
HF: Johnson West Duncan
F: Stokes Hawkins Chapman
R: Blake Selwood Bartel
Int: Milburn Corey Byrnes
Sub: Menzel/T Hunt

I think he'd be good there - his mistakes will cost us less, and he will be able to drift forward and kick goals. Also he can take a mark (sometimes) so he'd be a useful medium-height target coming out of defence, which I think is necessary in 2011.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Let me be a smarty pants for a second.
Let's assume that team is spot on. And Ling, Mooney and Pods are all available for rnd 2.
Who goes out?

I'm tipping your team will end up looking like the prelim team.

Of those three players, only one of them will be fit for round 2 and only one of them is in the best 22, so it's not as much of a problem as you think.

Ok, I'll play. Not that it matters. There will be huge debate on the Thursday before rnd 1

B: Enright Scarlett Kelly
HB: Mackie Taylor Wojo
C: Duncan Bartel T Hunt
HF: Varcoe SJ Chapman
F: Menzel Hawkins J Hunt
R: Ottens Selwood Hogan
Int: Blake Corey Lonergan

Sub: Milburn

Emerg: Stokes,West, Motlop

Yes SJ @ CHF
Just go smaller and work heavily on defensive pressure.
Blake is there because I don't trust Ottens yet.

And my entire Bench/Sub is too slow !!!

Agreed, midfielders will get no rest based on that bench.

The changes to your team I'd make
Out: Mackie (doesn't deserve a game right now) Lonergan Blake
Obvious to me. Hogan might also be borderline.

The ins are a bit harder but probably Byrnes, West and one other, maybe Motlop. Better balance.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

So far this year Taylor Hunt has shown very little and not sure if Menzel warrants a game just yet either (although he's done nothing wrong). Apart from a couple of typical things Mackie hasn't been too bad, and he'll play.

I actually think I'd change my side to this (the same 22 but in a different order), with Mackie on a wing:

B: J Hunt Scarlett Lonergan
HB: Enright Taylor Wojcinski
C: Mackie Kelly Varcoe
HF: Johnson West Duncan
F: Stokes Hawkins Chapman
R: Blake Selwood Bartel
Int: Milburn Corey Byrnes
Sub: Menzel/T Hunt

I think he'd be good there - his mistakes will cost us less, and he will be able to drift forward and kick goals. Also he can take a mark (sometimes) so he'd be a useful medium-height target coming out of defence, which I think is necessary in 2011.

While I agree on THunt, can't agree on Mackie. While he's been less woeful, that's a relative term and really only shows how woeful his 2010 was rather than any significant incremental improvement in the first 2 games of this year.

He's still turning the ball over at will, putting teammates under unnecessary pressure, and his lack of hardness at the pill isn't exactly the right example to be setting our young players.

For sure he will play, but that doesn't mean he should. I'm just preparing myself for the inevitable outcome so I don't throw my shoe at the PC on thursday 24th.

Other than Mackie that side is pretty much right though.

 

[Cataholic]

Let me be a smarty pants for a second.
Let's assume that team is spot on. And Ling, Mooney and Pods are all available for rnd 2.
Who goes out?

I'm tipping your team will end up looking like the prelim team.

I'd hand ruck duties to Simpson and West, drop Otten's for Pods and.....after that I'm not sure!

I'd like to fit Moons in there somewhere, but at the expense of who?

And while I've been a great admirer of Ling, I'm not sure he is in the best 22 anymore.

 

[vinum coupe]

Yep.

Seeing as we are playing at Subi I think you are spot on.

They will play Ling in every game that he is fit for though. Even though you may be right about best 22. No way in the world will any coach leave the skipper out.