Preview Round 10 2017: Hawthorn vs Sydney, Friday 26th May 7:50pm @SCG

[TheFourPillars]

Heatherley looked lost to me last weekend. He competed in the air well enough, but when the ball was in dispute he didn't know where to to go or what to do.

Not sure he'll keep his spot.

This is why brand has problems staying in the side. You need to know the structures

 

[nickrebellious]

Schoenmakers has fallen to about 6th in our KPF stocks but could honestly be 1st in our KPD's with Frawley and Stratton injured.

 

[MinerBoy]

Look it's gunna hurt this one......

Put something between your teeth and bite hard.


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[Spanish Sahara]

Heatherley looked lost to me last weekend. He competed in the air well enough, but when the ball was in dispute he didn't know where to to go or what to do.

Not sure he'll keep his spot.

Agree. He competed well but didnt look like he belonged out there. Whether thats just down to his first game this season or not. Would much rather Brand in the side

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Heatherley looked lost to me last weekend. He competed in the air well enough, but when the ball was in dispute he didn't know where to to go or what to do.

Not sure he'll keep his spot.

No wonder people see him as the player most likely to replace Gibson then.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Maybe I was thinking of 2015 (I was sick for half of last season so it's a bit of a blur). There are no miracle cures. He's no worse than Vickery and I would like to see him back in now that we have Roughie back. Anyway, hopefully O'Brien will be back this week so that should help.

Fair call, hope you've been on the mend!

It's probably lineball with him and Vickery - with the catman ahead on BH form.

Also crossing my fingers that we see the next instalment of 'how good is O'Brien now?' this weekend.

 

[savagelunchbox]

I guess being the only defender who can reliably kill the high ball is less important than knowing the complex structures.

I guess being the only defender who doesn't overrate their own offensive ability and try to take on multiple opponents is less important than knowing the complex structure.

I guess being the only defender to not accurately hit an opponent on the tit 70m out from goal is less important than knowing the complex structures.

I guess being the only defender to size-wise be able to defend the opposition's counter-attack caused by another teammate hitting an opposition on the tit 70m out from goal is less important than knowing the complex structures.

I guess being the only KPD to go up to kill the high ball while your co-KPD's either stand back and lets the opposition's power forward go up seemingly uncontested or go up and have little to no impact is less important than knowing the complex structures.

These complex structures that have shown time and time again in the last 12 months to not be working with the current playing list.

But yes, it's all the fault of the only KPD with the size, and the ability to read and judge the high ball, for this break down in the defensive unit while the others get off scot-free giving up multiple goals a game.

If only Brand was 5cm shorter, he'd be untouchable in the coaches eyes.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I guess being the only defender who can reliably kill the high ball is less important than knowing the complex structures.

I guess being the only defender who doesn't overrate their own offensive ability and try to take on multiple opponents is less important than knowing the complex structure.

I guess being the only defender to not accurately hit an opponent on the tit 70m out from goal is less important than knowing the complex structures.

I guess being the only defender to size-wise be able to defend the opposition's counter-attack caused by another teammate hitting an opposition on the tit 70m out from goal is less important than knowing the complex structures.

I guess being the only KPD to go up to kill the high ball while your co-KPD's either stand back and lets the opposition's power forward go up seemingly uncontested or go up and have little to no impact is less important than knowing the complex structures.

These complex structures that have shown time and time again in the last 12 months to not be working with the current playing list.

But yes, it's all the fault of the only KPD with the size, and the ability to read and judge the high ball, for this break down in the defensive unit while the others get off scot-free giving up multiple goals a game.

If only Brand was 5cm shorter, he'd be untouchable in the coaches eyes.

Possibly the most dead on statement on here this year.

 

[OzJohnnie]

"When I was 16 I couldn't believe how ignorant my old man was. When I was 26 I couldn't believe how much he had learned in the last 10 years."

The self-centred second guessing in this thread reminds me of this anecdote.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

"When I was 16 I couldn't believe how ignorant my old man was. When I was 26 I couldn't believe how much he had learned in the last 10 years."

The self-centred second guessing in this thread reminds me of this anecdote.

I'm guilty of playing the 'don't question HFC' card at times - and I admire Clarko a hell of a lot. But at 3/5, playing woeful footy, being outpaced and outsmarted all year and players getting long tenures of being out of form - you don't think posters have even the slightest right to question team selection right now?

I've seen what happens when fans en masse just accept mediocrity - and having seen that particular club only making 2 preliminary finals since our last title 23 years ago - I don't want to see complicity set in at Hawthorn.

I'm all for reasonable questioning of where the hell we're at right now.

 

[savagelunchbox]

I'm guilty of playing the 'don't question HFC' card at times - and I admire Clarko a hell of a lot. But at 3/5, playing woeful footy, being outpaced and outsmarted all year and players getting long tenures of being out of form - you don't think posters have even the slightest right to question team selection right now?

I've seen what happens when fans en masse just accept mediocrity - and having seen that particular club only making 2 preliminary finals since our last title 23 years ago - I don't want to see complicity set in at Hawthorn.

I'm all for reasonable questioning of where the hell we're at right now.

Internet likes are important, dude.

You've been here long enough to know that taking the moral high ground and given off the appearance of being a superior, non-judgmental supporter is the great way to win the likes of the same type of fans. They give them out like nobodies business!

 

[flinchfree]

I'm guilty of playing the 'don't question HFC' card at times - and I admire Clarko a hell of a lot. But at 3/5, playing woeful footy, being outpaced and outsmarted all year and players getting long tenures of being out of form - you don't think posters have even the slightest right to question team selection right now?

I've seen what happens when fans en masse just accept mediocrity - and having seen that particular club only making 2 preliminary finals since our last title 23 years ago - I don't want to see complicity set in at Hawthorn.

I'm all for reasonable questioning of where the hell we're at right now.

I guess the question is, which players do posters think can come in and play the role that Clarko needs? It's super easy to say this bloke is playing shit, the kid in the seconds couldn't be worse....
The fact is that a large group of these players have been playing together for an awfully long time, to systems that Clarko has installed, and coach isn't simply looking to bring in a player to free wheel with better form and somehow raise the tide for all boats.

If the team were playing close to it's best form, but was routinely being pantsed because other teams players were simply better and had worked out how to kill off what we do best, you might say "See, even doing what we do it's not enough. Try SOMETHING different rather than beat your head against the same wall."
But it would be fair to say that a large, overwhelming percentage of the team is playing below their potential, some so significantly it's mildly shocking......And IF they did find some form (which they have at various times needed to discover through our recent seasons) we might be seeing some much more successful football that said "See, not too shabby when everyone pulls in the same direction!"

It's one thing to start over with the Hodge/Franklin/Rough/Lewy drafts and build everything anew, but we have 23-29 year olds who still might decide they have more they want to get out of their time at the HFC.
So he tinkers, looking to tweak some form and appetite for joy out of the boys, which could result on us going on a run that still included 5-8 young players getting a taste of what their futures might hold.

Did Clarko get more stupid suddenly?
Nah.
But the peanut gallery here has always fancied themselves every bit as good decision makers as those actually in the game, secretly feeling they know just as much because they've watched the game from afar or played some amateurs.

Truly, that's what everyone here is, unless Rossy Lyon is hiding out, just amateurs, talking like they know better than a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY bloody successful coach currently with the reigns at Hawthorn.

To me it's all fun and good blowing smoke on an internet chat forum, but the seriousness with which some rate their own opinion is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Gralin]

Internet likes are important, dude.

You've been here long enough to know that taking the moral high ground and given off the appearance of being a superior, non-judgmental supporter is the great way to win the likes of the same type of fans. They give them out like nobodies business!

goes both ways, you can farm likes from the negatives as well as the positives

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Internet likes are important, dude.

You've been here long enough to know that taking the moral high ground and given off the appearance of being a superior, non-judgmental supporter is the great way to win the likes of the same type of fans. They give them out like nobodies business!

Not liked

 

[savagelunchbox]

goes both ways, you can farm likes from the negatives as well as the positives

Doesn't accumulate like "I'm holier than thou" posts do. People think liking and agreeing with the holier than thou posting means they too are holier than though and a better supporter than the rest.

 

[A Cut Above]

Heatherley looked lost to me last weekend. He competed in the air well enough, but when the ball was in dispute he didn't know where to to go or what to do.

Not sure he'll keep his spot.

I wouldn't be expect him to. Playing on Darcy Moore is one thing, Franklin & Tippett another. Depends if the match committee think Brand & Gibson will be enough to contain them I guess. They'll probably go tall to try and stretch us, and Gibson has struggled to match up on Tippett even in his peak years.

This is why brand has problems staying in the side. You need to know the structures

The easiest way to learn is often on the job. Playing at Box Hill doesn't seem to be very effective at teaching him these all-important structures.

 

[Qlder_19]

I'm guilty of playing the 'don't question HFC' card at times - and I admire Clarko a hell of a lot. But at 3/5, playing woeful footy, being outpaced and outsmarted all year and players getting long tenures of being out of form - you don't think posters have even the slightest right to question team selection right now?

I've seen what happens when fans en masse just accept mediocrity - and having seen that particular club only making 2 preliminary finals since our last title 23 years ago - I don't want to see complicity set in at Hawthorn.

I'm all for reasonable questioning of where the hell we're at right now.

As Clarko has said at the last 2 AGM's and Inside The Huddle gatherings he has implored whilst on his watch we won't go back to those bad days
Yes we have looked frayed around the edges to almost threadbare in most parts of most games this year.
But like I mentioned in another thread let's give it another 8 weeks when we might be able to assess a greater range of performances good and bad from everybody

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Internet likes are important, dude.

You've been here long enough to know that taking the moral high ground and given off the appearance of being a superior, non-judgmental supporter is the great way to win the likes of the same type of fans. They give them out like nobodies business!

I'll have you know my likes to posts ratio has been built on stupid pictures, reposting things Titus says and kimbopen - thank you very much!

 

[savagelunchbox]

I'll have you know my likes to posts ratio has been built on stupid pictures, reposting things Titus says and kimbopen - thank you very much!

God bless kimbopen

Builds one's ego better than anyone to grace these boards.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I guess the question is, which players do posters think can come in and play the role that Clarko needs? It's super easy to say this bloke is playing shit, the kid in the seconds couldn't be worse....
The fact is that a large group of these players have been playing together for an awfully long time, to systems that Clarko has installed, and coach isn't simply looking to bring in a player to free wheel with better form and somehow raise the tide for all boats.

If the team were playing close to it's best form, but was routinely being pantsed because other teams players were simply better and had worked out how to kill off what we do best, you might say "See, even doing what we do it's not enough. Try SOMETHING different rather than beat your head against the same wall."
But it would be fair to say that a large, overwhelming percentage of the team is playing below their potential, some so significantly it's mildly shocking......And IF they did find some form (which they have at various times needed to discover through our recent seasons) we might be seeing some much more successful football that said "See, not too shabby when everyone pulls in the same direction!"

It's one thing to start over with the Hodge/Franklin/Rough/Lewy drafts and build everything anew, but we have 23-29 year olds who still might decide they have more they want to get out of their time at the HFC.
So he tinkers, looking to tweak some form and appetite for joy out of the boys, which could result on us going on a run that still included 5-8 young players getting a taste of what their futures might hold.

Did Clarko get more stupid suddenly?
Nah.
But the peanut gallery here has always fancied themselves every bit as good decision makers as those actually in the game, secretly feeling they know just as much because they've watched the game from afar or played some amateurs.

Truly, that's what everyone here is, unless Rossy Lyon is hiding out, just amateurs, talking like they know better than a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY bloody successful coach currently with the reigns at Hawthorn.

To me it's all fun and good blowing smoke on an internet chat forum, but the seriousness with which some rate their own opinion is absolutely ridiculous.

Look I'm nowhere near being in a position to know better than Clarko et al. All I want is a fairly reasonable explanation as to why Brand keeps getting shafted this year (illness aside). If we don't rate him highly then we should have drafted him last year when he was considering going back home and one of the SA clubs was sniffing around. I completely side with those that are baffled that our best developing KPD and the only one who seems to know how to take an overhead mark has to wait for a growing causality list to get a sniff when there are many senior plays who've looked disinterested all year and keep getting a run.

 

[Gralin]

Doesn't accumulate like "I'm holier than thou" posts do. People think liking and agreeing with the holier than thou posting means they too are holier than though and a better supporter than the rest.

So I'm best off being holier than though if I really want to plough the fields for likes?

 

[Mr Lizard]

...has to wait for a growing causality list to get a sniff...

He played round 3 after recovering from a broken hand, the only casualty at that stage was Birch.

 

[OzJohnnie]

Internet likes are important, dude.

You've been here long enough to know that taking the moral high ground and given off the appearance of being a superior, non-judgmental supporter is the great way to win the likes of the same type of fans. They give them out like nobodies business!

I suspect likes are your motive. Hard to imagine, but why else do you bring it up?

I'm guilty of playing the 'don't question HFC' card at times - and I admire Clarko a hell of a lot. But at 3/5, playing woeful footy, being outpaced and outsmarted all year and players getting long tenures of being out of form - you don't think posters have even the slightest right to question team selection right now?

I've seen what happens when fans en masse just accept mediocrity - and having seen that particular club only making 2 preliminary finals since our last title 23 years ago - I don't want to see complicity set in at Hawthorn.

I'm all for reasonable questioning of where the hell we're at right now.

My point is not that a person isn't allowed to question (I do it with great frequency here), but it is that a little humility is advised. We only know what we see on the field. As fans, it's incredibly frustrating to watch the team under perform. To watch lackluster effort. And then to conclude that Clarkson is blind, ignorant, driven by passion for his favourites, whatever. We only know half the story. We only know what we see. We don't know what they are trying to accomplish, other than win of course.

All I'm saying is that it's often concluded here that Hawthorn obviously doesn't know what it is doing because we can't figure it out. Now that could be true that Hawthorn doesn't know what it's doing. The more likely scenario, though, is that we don't have enough information to figure it out.

 

[Lotus]

Look I'm nowhere near being in a position to know better than Clarko et al. All I want is a fairly reasonable explanation as to why Brand keeps getting shafted this year (illness aside). If we don't rate him highly then we should have drafted him last year when he was considering going back home and one of the SA clubs was sniffing around. I completely side with those that are baffled that our best developing KPD and the only one who seems to know how to take an overhead mark has to wait for a growing causality list to get a sniff when there are many senior plays who've looked disinterested all year and keep getting a run.

On KB, when was he got shafted?
He's been injured and should be playing against Collingwood but then he's sick.

This weekend is round 10, let's wait and see, be patience .

 

[OzJohnnie]

Look I'm nowhere near being in a position to know better than Clarko et al. All I want is a fairly reasonable explanation as to why Brand keeps getting shafted this year (illness aside). If we don't rate him highly then we should have drafted him last year when he was considering going back home and one of the SA clubs was sniffing around. I completely side with those that are baffled that our best developing KPD and the only one who seems to know how to take an overhead mark has to wait for a growing causality list to get a sniff when there are many senior plays who've looked disinterested all year and keep getting a run.

I think a number of fairly reasonable arguments have been made here for why Brand is excluded. You don't accept them, which is fine, but that doesn't mean the are not reasonable.

In short, they are this: Despite the fact that brand has quite good one-on-one skills, he misses judgements in the backline scheme. Fails to read the play or adjust as needed in certain situations. Likely, the opposition forwards know his weaknesses and work to exploit them. So he drops from game to game when those weaknesses either need work or are too exploitable to the opposition.

But fear not. With Frawley gone for two months Brand will have plenty of opportunity. Given that we'll be playing a backline which has about 1.6 season of experience on average (excluding Gibbo and Hodge) I think we can expect a lot of mistakes as they misplay and misread. But what choice does the Hawthorn coaching staff have?