Review Round 10, 2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. Richmond

[Grasshopper17]

Something wrong if he gets suspended when he won a free kick for it…

I remember down at Ballarat in 2021, Hugh got pinged for holding the ball and his tackler copped a suspension for a dangerous tackle. Same with Sicily on Hugh last year if I recall correctly.

So there are some pretty clear precedents.

 

[braddsey]

I remember down at Ballarat in 2021, Hugh got pinged for holding the ball and his tackler copped a suspension for a dangerous tackle. Same with Sicily on Hugh last year if I recall correctly.

So there are some pretty clear precedents.

No doubt. A strange situation when the umpires can't see something that results in a suspension, but they have so many things to watch.

 

[Grasshopper17]

If I was a Tigers supporter I wouldn't be too downhearted, I would take 3 flags in 4 years and then a drop of a cliff for a few years any day of the week than continually being up around the 8 but not winning flags ... as long as the down period doesn't go on for a decade or more like it did for us.

It was nice to get a bit of revenge for this dirty day:


Also, if we consider last year's result...


We've beaten Richmond by exactly 200 points in our last two meetings

 

[McIvor]

It was nice to get a bit of revenge for this dirty day:
View attachment 1995394

Also, if we consider last year's result...
View attachment 1995395

We've beaten Richmond by exactly 200 points in our last two meetings

I was at that game in 2018 and to be fair, Cam Rayner was our best player that day. Was a tough watch otherwise but yeah, after the beatings the Tigers have given us over the years, it’s nice to get some back particularly being at the game on Saturday night enjoying the first stress free game I’ve experienced in a while.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I am just wondering, does the extra percentge help us that much? As we have a draw, the only teams that percentage will be important will be against teams that also have had a draw as we will never be on the same points as other teams. Important to be above the other teams that have had the draw tho

Correct... But imagine if say Port and Freo play a draw in Round 24. Suddenly our percentage comes into play against 5 other teams, rather than just 3.

And of course there's always the chance we play another draw at some stage, bringing our points tally back into line with most other clubs.

And even if none of that occurs, we still play Adelaide again, and finish with Collingwood and Essendon in the last 2 rounds. So percentage is still a good chance of being relevant, and we do need to keep the foot down to boost it wherever we get the chance.

 

[Grasshopper17]

It's a strange feeling, I'm so used to cheering the lower teams beating the higher ones to keep our top 4 chances alive, however, this season I'm cheering the top teams to be the lower and keep our top 8 chances alive!

I'm still absolutely cheering the bottom teams. Was pleased the Dogs beat the Giants and was going for Adelaide to beat Collingwood. Top 4 or bust I think as a non-Victorian team. Too hard to win 3 or 4 consecutive interstate finals.

I'll compromise if come the end of the season we have say 6+ blokes in our 23 who have never played in a final. Then I think squeezing into 7th or 8th will have some merit. Otherwise, meh. As the great Regurgitator once said, if you're second, you're last.



Edit: just realised this video was shot at QE II!

 

[Grasshopper17]

I’d be tempted to keep Brain in over Answerth when Starce comes back but Answerth is also playing well and has cleaned up his kicking. Would be a balance between extra defence in Answerth versus another good kick off halfback.

It might simply come down to our opponent and what their small forward stocks look like. Having that variety is not a bad position for us to be in at the moment all things considered.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Nah early in the GF Berry got the ball went for a run umpire said he went to far. Maybe he did but there were others that went the same distance that weren’t paid.

Was definitely the Prelim Final. Happened right in front of me. Ah Chee marked his kick at the top of goal square, but from the ensuing free kick Cottrell crumbed on attacking 50, ran 30m without bouncing and into an open goal. Hilarious.

 

[SizeMatters]

Is Starc even best 22? He’s been woeful for almost two seasons now. Good shutdown defender but you can’t have the ball in his hands. He’s up there with Berry for turnover king. For some reason he and Berry are worse when they have time to think things through.

What has he have now that Answerth doesn’t have? “Experience”…

 

[Denno]

Is Starc even best 22? He’s been woeful for almost two seasons now. Good shutdown defender but you can’t have the ball in his hands. He’s up there with Berry for turnover king. For some reason he and Berry are worse when they have time to think things through.

What has he have now that Answerth doesn’t have? “Experience”…

Way too harsh for mine.

He's certainly down a little on the form he was when he should have been right in the All Australian mix (few years ago now), but save for a turnover or so a game, I think he's been better than the last couple of years, personally.

He can be strong in the air for his size (this being a bit of a barometer for his overall game, for mine), and I'm not sure other small forwards would be looking forward to matching up on him.

I still think he has his nose in front of Answerth, but credit where it's due, the latter has barely put a foot wrong since breaking back into the team.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think people are getting carried away with 2 big wins over opponents who really didn't show up and a draw against a fairly average if they think our best footy is with the 23 we've been playing for the last 3 weeks

When fit we'll revert back to a similar team to the one we've been playing and people will just have to handle their whipping boys getting a game

 

[Nunez]

I think people are getting carried away with 2 big wins over opponents who really didn't show up and a draw against a fairly average if they think our best footy is with the 23 we've been playing for the last 3 weeks

When fit we'll revert back to a similar team to the one we've been playing and people will just have to handle their whipping boys getting a game

We saw that things are never as bad as they seem when we were losing, but can't be forgotten that things are also never as good.

Starce and Bailey will make us a better team.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Is Starc even best 22? He’s been woeful for almost two seasons now. Good shutdown defender but you can’t have the ball in his hands. He’s up there with Berry for turnover king. For some reason he and Berry are worse when they have time to think things through.

What has he have now that Answerth doesn’t have? “Experience”…

Berry no doubt being closer to the coal face has improved him in this regard.
No doubt giving him some confidence so he has also looked better at disposal even when he has had time the last few games.
Where as Starc is way down in form , which is continuing from last year and Answerth, Brain , all have better kicks on them.
Should not be an automatic in that's for sure.
What would Revell be like there?
Think I would stick with Answerth or Brain , those two are just hard nuts.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

We saw that things are never as bad as they seem when we were losing, but can't be forgotten that things are also never as good.

Starce and Bailey will make us a better team.

Bailey as exiting as he is, is a front runner, needs to work on other aspects of his game (tackling) make an effort to cover in defense.
Starc has just plateaued out to a point where his off games are hurting us.

Some players just not up to it and now we have seen some great alternatives .

Pretty confident with Bailey improving , he's not far off from being an important cog to our movement (both ways).
Starc , big question mark at the moment.
I really hope they don't just come straght back in especialy Starc, he is way out of form , how much extra pressure is on other players.
Is there a corrilation with Payne getting back to form and Starc being out?

 

[HereIGoAgain]

We saw that things are never as bad as they seem when we were losing, but can't be forgotten that things are also never as good.

Starce and Bailey will make us a better team.

Yeah this isn't necessarily correct. The injured players being replaced with some youthful exuberance has made us a better team. The kids have re-calibrated the direction of our season.

There needs to be some selection pressure on under-performing players and this is the time to do it, regardless of Fagan's natural inclination to stick with his core group.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Starcevich and Bailey aren’t going anywhere. Up there with the most ridiculous posts ever on this board

Win a few games against shit opponents and were dropping a quarter of our GF team

 

[Gadzorks]

Starcevich and Bailey aren’t going anywhere. Up there with the most ridiculous posts ever on this board

Win a few games against s**t opponents and were dropping a quarter of our GF team

Fair point. However ...

Earlier this year our talent lacked essential hunger, which the newbies have addressed.

A winning team is not always your most talented. It's a magic mix that coaches continually try to understand. Sometimes experienced swagger is a magic ingredient, sometimes it's selection pressure, or newbie enthusiasm and energy.

Eg forwards are happy for lohman but his performance makes them dig deep and shoot accurately and that improves the team.

Based on past selection I'm sure the experienced players will come back in, but I'd be happy to keep playing the youngsters.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Starcevich and Bailey aren’t going anywhere. Up there with the most ridiculous posts ever on this board

Win a few games against s**t opponents and were dropping a quarter of our GF team

Starc and Bailey (include Rayner with this) are classic cases of player's careers stagnating.

Only a couple of years ago Starc was regarded as the best small lockdown defender in the game. Not even close now.

Bailey projected as a typical classy small forward who would naturally graduate into the midfield. How is that going?

Fagan will pick these players when ready but to disparage posters opinion on these players because you dont like what is being posted says more about you than about me.

I follow this team because I want to see us win premierships, not to see Grand Final participation praise.

 

[martinson]

Starc and Bailey (include Rayner with this) are classic cases of player's careers stagnating.

Only a couple of years ago Starc was regarded as the best small lockdown defender in the game. Not even close now.

Bailey projected as a typical classy small forward who would naturally graduate into the midfield. How is that going?

Fagan will pick these players when ready but to disparage posters opinion on these players because you dont like what is being posted says more about you than about me.

I follow this team because I want to see us win premierships, not to see Grand Final participation praise.

Someone texted me and said Rayner got a coaches vote in last weeks game.

I haven't checked this out but there wouldn't be a person who watched that game that would have Rayner in our best 15 players. It's become a bit of a joke amongst all the people I discuss the footy with.

Unfathomable.

Bailey and Starcevich are best 22 if fit and well . But good to see that we are developing options out of necessity and you never know where that leads

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Starcevich and Bailey aren’t going anywhere. Up there with the most ridiculous posts ever on this board

Win a few games against s**t opponents and were dropping a quarter of our GF team

The grand final team was found wanting.
Jast saying maybe we have better alternitives that open up our game and stability at the back.
But as you say , we have played against teams that are not challenging , so maybe these newbies need to prove their worth still.
Give them a go.
Hippy is out so would be happy for Bailey to come in and shift the deck a bit or just play smaller up forward.
But to take one of sharp or Lohmann or even Cal out for Bailey , would hope Bailey has a blinder .
Or do we just shuffle some more to get Bailey back in, for what it's worth I don't see him not getting back in if ready.
Just don't take away these gut running players away for him. These type of players take pressure of other players because they cover defend , they are already thinking about running back, they gut run to give an easy quick option for the ball carrier.

 

[martinson]

The grand final team was found wanting.
Jast saying maybe we have better alternitives that open up our game and stability at the back.
But as you say , we have played against teams that are not challenging , so maybe these newbies need to prove their worth still.
Give them a go.
Hippy is out so would be happy for Bailey to come in and shift the deck a bit or just play smaller up forward.
But to take one of sharp or Lohmann or even Cal out for Bailey , would hope Bailey has a blinder .
Or do we just shuffle some more to get Bailey back in, for what it's worth I don't see him not getting back in if ready.
Just don't take away these gut running players away for him. These type of players take pressure of other players because they cover defend , they are already thinking about running back, they gut run to give an easy quick option for the ball carrier.

Bailey and Starcevich will come in if ready but like you there's been an improvement in aspects of our game that were lacking since we brought in some fresh blood.

Gold Coast's form after we played them was good as was Adelaide's so I don't think our performances in those games was too bad.

You saw how much McKenna improved after 6 quarters of footy and readjusting so I don't want to see an underdone Starcevich and Bailey on the MCG where that could be exploited. You'd presume if named they're very much good to go.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Fair point. However ...

Earlier this year our talent lacked essential hunger, which the newbies have addressed.

A winning team is not always your most talented. It's a magic mix that coaches continually try to understand. Sometimes experienced swagger is a magic ingredient, sometimes it's selection pressure, or newbie enthusiasm and energy.

Eg forwards are happy for lohman but his performance makes them dig deep and shoot accurately and that improves the team.

Based on past selection I'm sure the experienced players will come back in, but I'd be happy to keep playing the youngsters.

Not a like for like comparison. Fair chance against Geelong Sharp, Morris and Reville would’ve been ineffective and we were just fine against North like against the Suns and Richmond. It’s not like they’ve come in and contributed better than our senior players

Starc and Bailey (include Rayner with this) are classic cases of player's careers stagnating.

Only a couple of years ago Starc was regarded as the best small lockdown defender in the game. Not even close now.

Bailey projected as a typical classy small forward who would naturally graduate into the midfield. How is that going?

Fagan will pick these players when ready but to disparage posters opinion on these players because you dont like what is being posted says more about you than about me.

I follow this team because I want to see us win premierships, not to see Grand Final participation praise.

Starcevich has stagnated as. Top 5 in the B&F consistent contributor in a top team. Nothing wrong with stagnating once you become a gun. Bailey too while frustrating is a valuable contributor and none of these kids can do what he did in the first quarter of the Grand Final.

I agree he is not a midfielder I’ve been consistent on this for a very long time.

Just need to step back and not get too enamoured with the shiny new toys. It’s something you learn having followed footy for a while

The grand final team was found wanting.
Jast saying maybe we have better alternitives that open up our game and stability at the back.
But as you say , we have played against teams that are not challenging , so maybe these newbies need to prove their worth still.
Give them a go.
Hippy is out so would be happy for Bailey to come in and shift the deck a bit or just play smaller up forward.
But to take one of sharp or Lohmann or even Cal out for Bailey , would hope Bailey has a blinder .
Or do we just shuffle some more to get Bailey back in, for what it's worth I don't see him not getting back in if ready.
Just don't take away these gut running players away for him. These type of players take pressure of other players because they cover defend , they are already thinking about running back, they gut run to give an easy quick option for the ball carrier.

Definitely a tough prospect selection in the coming weeks but that’s a good thing remembering that Noble didn’t play in the premiership last year

 

[Section 5]

Starcevich and Bailey aren’t going anywhere. Up there with the most ridiculous posts ever on this board

Win a few games against s**t opponents and were dropping a quarter of our GF team

I agree regarding Bailey not so much Starcevich.
I don't agree regarding "most ridiculous posts ever" either. It's just posters opinions.

My opinion is Brandon should defiantly come back via the VFL as his last game was April 25th.
If we had someone like Madden or Prior holding the fort i would have a different opinion.

Answerth (63 games) has been good, and Brain looks at home at AFL level in his limited TOG.
Having Starcevich (104 games) fighting to regain his spot after injury will be good for everyone including Brandon.
In season 2022 Starcevich was being talked about as a possible All Australian player.
Since then, his form has gradually dropped off over the next two seasons.
There was no one knocking down the door for his position until now.
He has not been getting enough of the ball as he was in 2022.
Regaining his match touch back at VFL in a week or twos time will be good for all.
We can't afford to drop a game because someone is in need of a run.
On the 14th May he was listed as 3-4 weeks.
Maybe today's injury list may have him available earlier but that's a fair time away from AFL level footy.
Below averages for Starch and Noah. ITC = Intercepts, CL Clearances. R50 = Rebound 50's

Moving Wilmot to the wing would make room for both when the time comes or even earlier.

Name	Year	Disposal	Mark	Tackle	CL	I50	ITC	MG	1%	R50	DE%
Starch	2022	15	4.5	2.0	0.6	1.4	5.8	260	2.3	3.2	76
	2023	11.7	4.5	1.5	0.3	1.1	5.0	191.3	2.1	2.4	79.6
	2024	10.7	3.1	1.7	0.3	0.6	4.6	177.3	2.9	3.0	82.7
Noah	2024	13.2	3.5	3.2	1.4	1.4	3.9	206.4	1.8	1.5	81.1

 

[Gadzorks]

Someone texted me and said Rayner got a coaches vote in last weeks game.

I haven't checked this out but there wouldn't be a person who watched that game that would have Rayner in our best 15 players. It's become a bit of a joke amongst all the people I discuss the footy with.

Unfathomable.

Bailey and Starcevich are best 22 if fit and well . But good to see that we are developing options out of necessity and you never know where that leads

My view on rayner getting a vote depends on which coach gave it.

If it was ours, it would be because he had a role that he filled exactly as ordered.

If it was the opposition, then it means coaches rate players very differently to us fans. It would be impressive.

 

[SizeMatters]

Berry no doubt being closer to the coal face has improved him in this regard.
No doubt giving him some confidence so he has also looked better at disposal even when he has had time the last few games.
Where as Starc is way down in form , which is continuing from last year and Answerth, Brain , all have better kicks on them.
Should not be an automatic in that's for sure.
What would Revell be like there?
Think I would stick with Answerth or Brain , those two are just hard nuts.

I think whilst revile and brain decent enough users of the ball they are fairly weak in the contest. Starc adds a hard edge to the backline but I’d argue Answerth is fairly like for like in that regard. Answerth has played well enough to hold his spot so I guess who makes way for Starc? Brain is obvious choice given his limited minutes but I’d argue his limited game time he’s shown a lot and deserves a decent go. Reville is okay without being amazing but is more flexible than Starc. It’s tough one. I’d rather keep Starc out for one more week to recover and see what the other two can do and go from there.