Autopsy Round 15, 2023: St.Kilda v Brisbane *SPUD'S GAME* *CROUCH 150TH* *MARSHALL 100TH*

[phantom13]

That's right. I'm genuinely interested. If you reckon he's doing nothing then you must know what the gameplan is to begin with right? To be able to identify if changes have or haven't been made.

Do you have examples of situations in a game where nothing has changed? That could be in terms of midfield rotation, style of play, anything? I want to better understand what we do.

I actually never said he wasn’t, again, I asked a question and as yet we’ve got one example of a time when he definitively made a move. That doesn’t prove me right just as me pointing to every game he’s lost without an example of a move he made doesn’t. Because you can’t prove this, it’s just opinion.

There’s really three alternatives to the fact that pretty much no one can.

1- That football is so complex and strategic that not one of the tens of thousands of posters in here could possibly note or understand it enough to point to one. In spite of literally thousands of pages of (some) really good quality review and critiquing not one person knows anywhere near enough about football to pick one.

2- coaches don’t make many of any changes on the run in a game

3- some combination of those two things

Personally I suspect it’s likely somewhere in the middle there, I’m sure there’s a lot I don’t know about our strategy or gamestyle but I also suspect coaches don’t want to tinker with shit in game and do just trust their processes to win out.

In terms of specifics we either aren’t playing a spaced role driven stoppage set up given the Brisbane game, or we are and the players aren’t implementing it. He did nothing to change that on Friday and it was pretty plain to most to see.

This isn’t a shot at ross by the way, I’m not sure why it’s been taken so personally.

 

[phantom13]

Am I missing something

I mean I could be a smart ass and say every single loss he’s got on his record he clearly didn’t make a game changing or winning move.

Can’t really prove him NOT doing something can you

 

[phantom13]

This is a ****ing weird hill George

Taking me to task over pointing out that I’m not sure Ross is a master gameday coach (whilst also lauding how great he is in prep) not even being arrogant and cocksure about it, literally positing a question.

 

[George]

I actually never said he wasn’t, again, I asked a question and as yet we’ve got one example of a time when he definitively made a move. That doesn’t prove me right just as me pointing to every game he’s lost without an example of a move he made doesn’t. Because you can’t prove this, it’s just opinion.

There’s really three alternatives to the fact that pretty much no one can.

1- That football is so complex and strategic that not one of the tens of thousands of posters in here could possibly note or understand it enough to point to one. In spite of literally thousands of pages of (some) really good quality review and critiquing not one person knows anywhere near enough about football to pick one.

2- coaches don’t make many of any changes on the run in a game

3- some combination of those two things

Personally I suspect it’s likely somewhere in the middle there, I’m sure there’s a lot I don’t know about our strategy or gamestyle but I also suspect coaches don’t want to tinker with s**t in game and do just trust their processes to win out.

In terms of specifics we either aren’t playing a spaced role driven stoppage set up given the Brisbane game, or we are and the players aren’t implementing it. He did nothing to change that on Friday and it was pretty plain to most to see.

This isn’t a shot at ross by the way, I’m not sure why it’s been taken so personally.

I mean I could be a smart ass and say every single loss he’s got on his record he clearly didn’t make a game changing or winning move.

Can’t really prove him NOT doing something can you

This is a ******* weird hill George

Taking me to task over pointing out that I’m not sure Ross is a master gameday coach (whilst also lauding how great he is in prep) not even being arrogant and cocksure about it, literally positing a question.

You said you had multiple examples of him doing nothing and I am legitimately trying to understand the game from someone who knows more than I do, all I see is positional changes. Not sure that's a hill, moreso just an exercise in understanding the game. If you can't answer that's fine and we can move on.

 

[phantom13]

You said you had multiple examples of him doing nothing and I am legitimately trying to understand the game from someone who knows more than I do, not sure that's a hill moreso just an exercise in understanding the game. If you can't answer that's fine.

Yeh again, never said I knew the game better than you or anyone else.

You’ve made a call and dug your heels in that’s fine.

 

[George]

Yeh again, never said I knew the game better than you or anyone else.

You’ve made a call and dug your heels in that’s fine.

Yes I understand you didn't say that, I am saying if you say you have multiple examples of him doing nothing then you understand the game better than I do.

All I ever asked of you was examples of that lol. There's no conspiracy going on I am actually trying to see what you're seeing. If you can't answer, again, let's move on.

 

[phantom13]

Yes I understand you didn't say that, I am saying if you say you have multiple examples of him doing nothing then you understand the game better than I do.

All I ever asked of you was examples of that lol. There's no conspiracy going on I am actually trying to see what you're seeing. If you can't answer, again, let's move on.

It was a smart ass response to a smart as response.

Every game he’s ever lost he’s clearly not made a match winning move has he?

Ffs mate. Is Ross a good game day coach? I don’t know, but you do, even though you don’t know football.

Cool.

 

[George]

It was a smart ass response to a smart as response.

Every game he’s ever lost he’s clearly not made a match winning move has he?

Ffs mate. Is Ross a good game day coach? I don’t know, but you do, even though you don’t know football.

Cool.

Haha how the **** would I know what he does and doesn't do on game day apart from moving players around?

What makes you think I think he's a good game day coach? Don't think I've ever said that. My whole argument is I don't know enough. You said you had examples that back the argument that he does nothing on game day, and out of genuine curiosity I want to see it so I can better understand the game. There's nothing smart-arsey about it, sorry if you think that's what I'm trying to get out of this.

Well I have multitudes of examples of him doing sweet * all in game.

If you have them I would appreciate it. If you made it up just say so so we can both move on lol. It's not that deep trust me.

 

[Mowman]

It was a smart ass response to a smart as response.

Every game he’s ever lost he’s clearly not made a match winning move has he?

Ffs mate. Is Ross a good game day coach? I don’t know, but you do, even though you don’t know football.

Cool.

So every game he has won he has made match winning moves then

 

[phantom13]

If you have them I would appreciate it. If you made it up just say so so we can both move on lol. It's not that deep trust me.

I’ve already done it, more than once.

Gave the Brisbane example on the weekend specifically.

Gave the broad stroke of every game he’s ever lost he clearly didn’t make a game winning move.

 

[phantom13]

So every game he has won he has made match winning moves then

Exactly why it’s a stupid question. Surely someone gets that.

 

[George]

I’ve already done it, more than once.

Gave the Brisbane example on the weekend specifically.

Gave the broad stroke of every game he’s ever lost he clearly didn’t make a game winning move.

During the game or recently? I'll have a look back through I have obviously missed it

 

[George]

I don’t do facebook twitter instagram TikTok snapchat

It’s bad enough wasting time here lol

This is never a waste of time. You even got the mod-off everyone was after. We aim to please.

 

[phantom13]

About 6 minutes ago.

In terms of specifics we either aren’t playing a spaced role driven stoppage set up given the Brisbane game, or we are and the players aren’t implementing it. He did nothing to change that on Friday and it was pretty plain to most to see.

 

[phantom13]

During the game or recently? I'll have a look back through I have obviously missed it

Picking fights you can’t win and don’t even believe in. Never had you pegged for a white knighter… definitely a fan of pegging though.

 

[George]

Picking fights you can’t win and don’t even believe in. Never had you pegged for a white knighter… definitely a fan of pegging though.

I knew you can't walk away from an argument so I should've known better really

 

[gringo2011]

At the risk of joining the girly slap fight, I've always listened to the strategy segment on SEN, three really good coaches from good systems have all said that coaches change **** all during matches and will usually back their systems and try to get them adhered to rather than tear up the game plan when they are behind. Usually you have a move like Battle forward or Owens into the ruck to shake things up in situations that arise but most coaches have done the work before the game starts.

 

[phantom13]

At the risk of joining the girly slap fight, I've always listened to the strategy segment on SEN, three really good coaches from good systems have all said that coaches change * all during matches and will usually back their systems and try to get them adhered to rather than tear up the game plan when they are behind. Usually you have a move like Battle forward or Owens into the ruck to shake things up in situations that arise but most coaches have done the work before the game starts.

If it was Ken Hinkley I’m tipping he’s just like George and has no ****ing clue what Josh Carr is doing tbh.

 

[StFly]

I actually never said he wasn’t, again, I asked a question and as yet we’ve got one example of a time when he definitively made a move. That doesn’t prove me right just as me pointing to every game he’s lost without an example of a move he made doesn’t. Because you can’t prove this, it’s just opinion.

There’s really three alternatives to the fact that pretty much no one can.

1- That football is so complex and strategic that not one of the tens of thousands of posters in here could possibly note or understand it enough to point to one. In spite of literally thousands of pages of (some) really good quality review and critiquing not one person knows anywhere near enough about football to pick one.

2- coaches don’t make many of any changes on the run in a game

3- some combination of those two things

Personally I suspect it’s likely somewhere in the middle there, I’m sure there’s a lot I don’t know about our strategy or gamestyle but I also suspect coaches don’t want to tinker with s**t in game and do just trust their processes to win out.

In terms of specifics we either aren’t playing a spaced role driven stoppage set up given the Brisbane game, or we are and the players aren’t implementing it. He did nothing to change that on Friday and it was pretty plain to most to see.

This isn’t a shot at ross by the way, I’m not sure why it’s been taken so personally.

In my discussion with Sheeds back in the day before a rando event, a lot of match day was making sure the players were heads in to what was trained, what was known, what needed to be done and the planning aspect. Then it was simply more nuanced things during like if you noticed say Hird was on the boundary nose down having a sniff instead of presenting, then you request that runner to boot that arse. It's then in the breaks that you get to "fix" things in positions unless those leaders, those players that do know and are in fix it themselves during, otherwise you're just tracking and dealing with things later.

It's the other 80%, the day to day stuff that really makes or breaks you at the club and if there's a future there worth grasping to and a vision still held to get there.

 

[Sully111]

I disagree.

Oh ok then. I'll change my mind.

 

[George]

At the risk of joining the girly slap fight, I've always listened to the strategy segment on SEN, three really good coaches from good systems have all said that coaches change * all during matches and will usually back their systems and try to get them adhered to rather than tear up the game plan when they are behind. Usually you have a move like Battle forward or Owens into the ruck to shake things up in situations that arise but most coaches have done the work before the game starts.

So Ross Lyon does make match day moves then. I knew I was right all along.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

So Ross Lyon does make match day moves then.

He makes moves like Jagger

 

[MordySaint]

To be fair I’m here to be convinced and so far we’ve got Sam Gilbert forward in the 09 granny and nothing else.

I actually think it’s more a statement on modern coaching than anything, it’s all “trust the process” and no one ever wants to change anything. The demons flag win was the most evidence of this I’ve ever seen. 3, 4, 5 straight goals from centre clearance (the last from the ******* ruckman waltzing out the front of the square) and neither bevo nor Bont not anyone thought “maybe we lock down and play a sweeper for 5 minutes”?.

I get that local footy, even high levels isn’t afl, but most sides I ever played for had a rule, 3 or 4 straight goals, everyone lock down, you’re not gonna win it in those 5 but you could very well lose it. Modern footy at afl level just doesn’t ever seem to be reactive.

Ross had a shocking case on the flu of the weekend against a top 4 side that travels extremely well.

He's been given a team with a very average midfield and no second ruckman.

First win in 16 years in Sydney, beating Bombers in our 150th... plus still sitting 5th.

He's got a few more credits in the bank before posters can legitimately start turning on him.

 

[phantom13]

Ross had a shocking case on the flu of the weekend against a top 4 side that travels extremely well.

He's been given a team with a very average midfield and no second ruckman.

First win in 16 years in Sydney, beating Bombers in our 150th... plus still sitting 5th.

He's got a few more credits in the bank before posters can legitimately start turning on him.

I dont think i could have made it any clearer that im not potting him. Stop reading the headline and try the content.

**** even in the post youve quoted ive made the point that modern coaching is not about game day changes.

 

[MordySaint]

I dont think i could have made it any clearer that im not potting him. Stop reading the headline and try the content.

* even in the post youve quoted ive made the point that modern coaching is not about game day changes.

I think he is one of the best game day coaches I've seen. I've come up with many more instances than just Gilbert 10 (who coincidentally had never seen a live game of AFL football before he was drafted)

Any coach who has taken cellar dwellers like us and Freo to the big stage, is more than a coach great at preparation.