Review Round 16, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. Richmond

[Denno]

Lester's omission for Gardiner against Hawks like you said was up there with the most idiotic decision for some time based on what I have NFI. It was foolish and short sighted whilst not dropping Rich and Gunstan.

100% disagree. As I said at the time, based on the Adel game only, Gardiner wasn't getting dropped for the Haw game. He performed better (for mine), in that game, and deserved to be retained (and this isn't about Gardiner v Lester overall, per se).

That being said, clearly Lester has made every post a winner since getting back in once again, and isn't getting dropped based on current form. The overall mix is working well, and we have a lot of flexibility, too.

Rich and Gunston, regardless of how it was communicated, has clearly been the right thing to do, for a number of reasons.

Without looking at the stats, I'm not convinced we're not getting picked off in the air a bit too much in our F50 (without the additional tall), and am concerned about Coll and Melb's aerial ability down back, but it may overall be a fair trade off to allow us to cover the ground better defensively (as others on here have stated).

 

[3KZ is Football]

No need for a mea culpa from Fagan after his team wins comprehensively last night. Credit to him instead I think.

Love the hyperbole in this post though. Catastrophe, hubris, extreme, shatter, just in the last line of your post. Joe style entertainment in the written form.

Ta. I aim to please.

 

[Ceebee]

Jack Reiwoldt- 6 disposals, 1 mark, zero goals... another victim of the Payne Train.

Loved it

 

[Tom14]

100% disagree. As I said at the time, based on the Adel game only, Gardiner wasn't getting dropped for the Haw game. He performed better (for mine), in that game, and deserved to be retained (and this isn't about Gardiner v Lester overall, per se).

That being said, clearly Lester has made every post a winner since getting back in once again, and isn't getting dropped based on current form. The overall mix is working well, and we have a lot of flexibility, too.

Rich and Gunston, regardless of how it was communicated, has clearly been the right thing to do, for a number of reasons.

Without looking at the stats, I'm not convinced we're not getting picked off in the air a bit too much in our F50 (without the additional tall), and am concerned about Coll and Melb's aerial ability down back, but it may overall be a fair trade off to allow us to cover the ground better defensively (as others on here have stated).

I tend to agree with you, do think we need to continue to work on improving our inside 50 delivery to make sure we aren't just bombing away when there is a better option, and equally need our mediums to do a better job of competing in the air.

But overall I think its pretty obvious to see that we are covering the ground miles better in defence, though that could be as much attitude as the change of structure.

 

[Happy_Neale]

This jigsaw team is looking almost complete.
IMO what we still need is a 195-7 cm utility player. These players are like hens teeth. Someone who can pinch hit in the ruck/wing/back. A Blicavs type. It would mean we don’t have second ruck as sub. Hopefully there is someone in the draft.

Ah Chee is that player IMO. Maybe not in the ruck but can play across all lines.

 

[OldLion]

Lester’s running ability has always been a huge asset. What we are seeing now from Lester has always been part of his game. It’s not like he has suddenly worked the game out at 30 years of age. I am rapt that people have stopped their lazy group thinking and have realised that his gut running capacity is huge and the fact that he is putting in efforts like last night is testament to his desire and leadership. It has been a shame for Lester that Fagan has always rated others in front of him, but a joy to see how he has established himself once again. So what has made the difference for Lester this year? It is the return to stellar form by Andrews and the emergence of Payne for one. Secondly, playing alongside McKenna, Coleman and Wilmot means that the backline has changed and developed greater rebound capacity. It also means that we have other players who can compete effectively for ground ball. In the past, a backline with Adams, Gardiner and Rich was really hampered by their lack of ability to contest for the ball on the deck. That job used to fall to Lester in that line up and he struggled to carry it on his own. The other thing that has helped Lester shine this year is that he has been able to bring our defense together by directing traffic and making our backline cohesive. We are now functioning defensively better than we have since our rise in 2019 and when the defence looks good, so do individual defenders.

Spot on. He can now play a little taller and use his experience and run. His 'turnaround' has been nothing short of spectacular.

 

[OldLion]

So many “I’m the boss” moments from Cam Rayner. Conor McKenna does an incredible amount of unrewarded running. Mounting injuries a concern. “Long bombs to Snake” really needs to be put away while we don’t have a Snake. Richmond were alarmingly poor. Umpires craptastic as ever; pay marks you bastards.

Rayner really needs to finish better. Like Bailey. Then he becomes a real matchwinner and fulfill his destiny.

 

[M Malice]

Even though Ah Chee was not at his best last night I do think it showed enough to suggest that Ah Chee is a better option than Lohmann if it came down to a choice between the two.

Also Gardiner, Rich and Gunston are going to find it nigh on impossible(barring injury) to get back into the senior side IMO, a good win against the Demons the week after next would seal their fate.

 

[a mayes ing]

Jack Reiwoldt- 6 disposals, 1 mark, zero goals... another victim of the Payne Train.

Genuinely didn't even realise he was playing out there lol.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Rayner really needs to finish better. Like Bailey. Then he becomes a real matchwinner and fulfill his destiny.

He's real close and unable to be tackled at the moment. It isn't a big step from here for him to move into that upper echelon of players. Just stay involved and finish off his chances. Really is the type of impact player that will win finals for us.

 

[Dalions]

Genuinely didn't even realise he was playing out there lol.

At the game, didn’t even see him.

 

[POBT]

I really like Rayner in this role. He's not a pressure small - it's not in his nature and he doesn't have the repeat efforts in him. He's not really a mid because his running capacity is poor and he doesn't get to enough contests. But we've asked him to be both at times. And he's been sporadically successful, at best.

Playing as a hybrid forward is perfect. He gets to impact the game in so many different ways. His aerial game is as good as players two inches taller. He is clean below his knees. He can push up to stoppage or even charge from CHF into centre bounces. Best of all, we don't need him to chase and tackle as much as we do when he's asked to play smaller - he's not great defensively but he's much better than either Gunston or Fort, whose role he is effectively playing.

When we play three talls, Rayner looks a bit out of place at times. In a two tall forward setup, he looks to be perfectly placed.

 

[Jim Stynes11]

Last night's team was the best balanced team we've had in all year. McKenna ,Wilmot and Lester are giving us that spark we've been missing for 4 years.

Of course it helps when your m/f has a day out.

The only player you could possibly consider as forcing their way into this lineup , barring injuries , is Zorko.

was thinking exactly this last night. You would think that Fletcher is likely to have a lull at some stage, not many players (Wilmot, Ashcroft) achieve consistency at the very start of their career, especially with his time out with that back injury.

Really gutted for Ah Chee. Has been so unlucky - was playing well last year until Carlton and just as he gets his chance now, he loses a week.
When Ah Chee plays, you gain a lot of flexibility for when the sub is used. He can switch to most lines on the field to allow sub to come in elsewhere. So he allows the Fort sub decision to work. I know he's not the only small that can play multiple roles, but I think he's the best version of that type player

 

[The Zork]

I don’t think I’ve seen a player so on the cusp of tearing a game to shreds than Rayner.

 

[martinson]

I don’t think I’ve seen a player so on the cusp of tearing a game to shreds than Rayner.

He's always going to look like that.

That's what he is.

What we want to see from him is consistency of effort offensively and defensively. Which he's getting better at of late.

 

[JasRulz63]

Hoping those interested in Cumberland were watching last night. 7 disposals 6 turnovers.

Nailed a couple of his passes perfectly on a Lion’s chest.

Don’t think he’s a bad player but he needs a lot of work.

Not to mention 0 tackles and 8 pressure acts.

 

[dlanod]

I tend to agree with you, do think we need to continue to work on improving our inside 50 delivery to make sure we aren't just bombing away when there is a better option, and equally need our mediums to do a better job of competing in the air.

But overall I think its pretty obvious to see that we are covering the ground miles better in defence, though that could be as much attitude as the change of structure.

Last night I'll give them a pass, because so many times the ball came back in after Richmond turned it over between their 50m line and the centre of the ground. That means that pretty much every player is still in a position to clog up space and defend, next to impossible to lead anywhere then. We were a lot better moving into an open 50m, and even when it just wasn't completely congested there were some good leads honoured to the pockets.

 

[M Malice]

IMO a fit Zorko is 100% in our best side, as most agree on here Gunston and Rich NOOOOO!

 

[CarterS]

I don’t think I’ve seen a player so on the cusp of tearing a game to shreds than Rayner.

He'll do it in a big final I reckon.

 

[NeverEddie]

No one has mentioned the best part of the match yet.

The bit where the Richmond fans on the fence absolutely sh*t themselves when Joe slams that ball through for that goal off the ground (after the Richmond numb nuts conveniently knocked the ball back to him from the goal line).

Joe slams the ball into the fence at 1000km/hr and about 5 Richmond fans crap their pants and duck for cover. One of them then wants to jump the fence and clock Joe on the nose for causing his undies to turn brown.

 

[Section 5]

I tend to agree with you, do think we need to continue to work on improving our inside 50 delivery to make sure we aren't just bombing away when there is a better option, and equally need our mediums to do a better job of competing in the air.

But overall I think its pretty obvious to see that we are covering the ground miles better in defence, though that could be as much attitude as the change of structure.

Our defense is looking good, but the Demons is the next test. It feels like there is always another test for the Lions.

I basically agree about our I50 delivery this year, but i give us a huge pass on that aspect of our game last night.
By about 1/2 way through the 2nd quarter the Tigers pretty much flooded our forward 50. Our guys regularly did not have many options.
Having all those numbers back did not help the Tigers getting it out of the area and past the center where we had extras back holding their ground.

Even with that happening we still took 21 marks inside F50. Our yearly average after that 21 increased slightly to 14.6.

You can only chip it around so much before kicking I50. Better a turnover well I50 than in the middle of the ground.
The Tigers 3 tall defenders took 25 marks but in general it was a slow kick out of defense as they had to wait for numbers to get back.
Andrews, Payne & Lester took just 12 marks but found plenty of space and players forward of the ball.

 

[almagoo]

Yep. I'll be melting big time. Best ever melts.

I'll start practicing now.

Gunston is not what he once has was and he doesn't have the relationship with our players.

Our current forwards have great synergy, which he destroys. Makes them look bad because they are told to include him in the game. So they do and it costs goals.

No gunston. This isn't a primary school playground.

Won't happen. No melts required.

 

[dmac_55]

This is the best our backline has ever looked. For me:
Andrew - key D
Payne - key D
Lester - third tall
McKenna - attacking HBF
Wilmot - HBF
Coleman -attacking HBF
Starc - BP shut down small

Looking forward:
Rich only comes in for injury for either McKenna or coleman

Gardiner comes in if any of our keys are hurt or Lester is hurt

Answerth and Ah Chee are depth for non KP defenders.

 

[lioninthesand]

Said it during the week but we really need to get his signature on paper. Absolute gun with his ability to create, like no one else on our list can.

He ain’t going anywhere.

 

[p4p1]

Not sure the argument against 3 tall forwards is helped by the massive number of intercepts the Richmond defenders had.

A Mcstay type would have helped in that regard tonight

That's easily cleaned up by not bombing it into forward 50 at the advantage of our opposition. I thought a few of the intercept marks Richmond took were kicks that fell short, or kicks that went in the opposite direction the forwards were leading to etc.