Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[buttermuffs]

I give some credit to Melbourne in the end because I do think they actually did a really good job to shut down our switching and dominate inside. They were playing great footy at the end and ran over us. The Pickett goal though was terrible, Kiddy lost his feet and there was absolutely no reason for Wilmot to go to ground there at all.

The start of the game was the part that really annoyed me personally. There was absolutely no reason to be going down 25-0. They played well but there were 1-2 goals that were given away from just not being switched on.

 

[mpal6]

I give some credit to Melbourne in the end because I do think they actually did a really good job to shut down our switching and dominate inside. They were playing great footy at the end and ran over us. The Pickett goal though was terrible, Kiddy lost his feet and there was absolutely no reason for Wilmot to go to ground there at all.

The start of the game was the part that really annoyed me personally. There was absolutely no reason to be going down 25-0. They played well but there were 1-2 goals that were given away from just not being switched on.

We had a few of those, our players still can't seem to keep the ball in front of them when they go for that ground ball. If you miss it, at least it's in front so you can give a second effort rather than almighty single attempt and then going to ground with the ball left behind them and a free Demons players to take it away. Wilmot did it twice and Payne had a few as well. The 1%ers, fine margins we're talking about in a 1 point loss.

 

[Pacman82]

Might have been touched upon already, but I put alot of the blame on Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

for what happened, he had a brilliant individual game, but as a captain he has to be influencing the plays out of defence. The Lions were consistently going down the line to that Gawn/May pack in that last. A huge factor that cost us the game in my view.

 

[OldLion]

This is a pretty good summary of my feelings too. He turned us from a laughing stock into a perennial contender. You can't discard that if you're trying to make any rational criticism of him.

Does that mean he can lead a club to a premiership? Well obviously he hasn't yet, and though plenty of other coaches have taken similar amounts of time and almost been moved on even it's a valid topic for discussions.

However there's also zero guarantee any other name floating would be better, and statistically they're likely to be worse just given the high bar Fagan has set.

Hodge was the key signing - an immense player and mentor.

 

[mpal6]

I am willing to give him leeway, but I do question the selection process that set him up to require the leeway - especially with Zorko also clearly hampered, and the addition of Lyons. I'm not sure a full game of Dev was the answer though either FWIW.

Needed a bit of Matho yesterday if he was fit n available.

Neale is silk but we needed meat n potatoes in the middle last night - we don't have many on the list who could play that role.

 

[Scubaveg]

Needed a bit of Matho yesterday if he was fit n available.

Neale is silk but we needed meat n potatoes in the middle last night - we don't have many on the list who could play that role.

If you think Maffo would make a difference, you have no idea.


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[Scubaveg]

That is the biggest choke since Greg Norman blew that 6 shot lead to Nick Faldo at Augusta all those years ago.


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[Happy_Neale]

Wouldn’t go that far and even if we were; we’ve still achieved just as much - zero.

Would you rather be playing finals or finishing bottom and conceding 130 points per game?

 

[McIvor]

Would you rather be playing finals or finishing bottom and conceding 130 points per game?

I will say I’m conflicted, I find this period more disappointing having expectations and constantly being let down compared to expecting and relieving little in return. This is just a wasted five year period with nought to show for it when the club and players have taken this period for granted expecting that it is a rite of passage that sustained success automatically equals a premiership. There is going to be a lot of everlasting regrets by the club, coaches, players and us fans with this premiership window achieving nought- unless some massive decisions are made this off season which I don’t think they will be because loyalty seems to be viewed more favourably than hard decisions that could result in the ultimate success.

 

[MacMum]

Wouldn’t go that far and even if we were; we’ve still achieved just as much - zero.

Achieved zero? Are you mad? I'd much rather be sitting in the top 8 than the bottom 8. Is that where you want us to go back too?

We are not the only team who have been in the finals in recent years and not won the flag. It happens to teams all the time. Only one of those 8 is going to win it.

...and yes naturally we hope its us but if not, like every other team, we go back and try again the next year.

The Brisbane Lions are relevant again after years in the wilderness...thanks to Fagan. I hope he keeps leading us right up to the next rebuild we have to do...because I cannot see, nor do I want, anyone else leading this group as far as they can possibly go.

Fagan built this team, he deserves to see them through. AFAIC he is to leave on his terms and when he wants, he's earned that right.

Having said that, Last night was a nightmare which I still believe falls squarely at the feet of the coaching staff. They stuffed up.

Rectify those mistakes and I'll be a happy little vegemite again..

 

[McIvor]

Fagan built this team, he deserves to see them through.

Having said that, Last night was a nightmare which I still believe falls squarely at the feet of the coaching staff. They stuffed up.

Rectify those mistakes and I'll be a happy little vegemite again..

I dont think he does deserve to see them through.
Last night was not the first time Fagan and co botched the game, they have botched many n game day and at the selection table and the evidence is there to support that.

I wanted Fagan to see us get there, but he s taken us as far as we can go and it would be shame if the club is to weak to make the hard call whilst in this premiership window all because of its stubborness to stand by Fagan to the detriment of seeing whether someone else can get us to the next step - thats what this should be about - winning a flag not blind loyalty to Fagan like hes shown to certain players that just keeps costing us games, not one but many this year. That does not detract from my admiration for what he has done for the club in the past 5 years. Hes done wonders, but his behaviour is changing for the worst and hate to say it, but the players deserve the opportunity to hear a new voice.

 

[Tom14]

I think there is a middle ground between thinking Fages is totally useless or just pointing to his record so far. Clearly he's played a huge role in changing the team and took us out of some very dark times, but I think its a fair question as to whether he's the right person to take us over the top.

At the end of the day personnel is probably 95% of the reason why teams win a flag and coaching a much smaller component. But we probably have 2 more years of Neale at his peak before he starts to decline and we've fallen short in each finals series for a multitude of reasons. Given that we can't do much in the next year or two to change the list outside of free agent acquisitions, I think its fair to ask if a different coaching approach and gamestyle should be tried. A change of coach might be the edge we need to get over the top, but equally it could go badly and cost us.

At the end of the day its probably a moot point - he got another 2 year contract and while his payout would be limited to 6 months, I can't see the club sacking him so he'd have to decide to walk away.

 

[maggotman]

Went to another game at the MCG for ANOTHER loss. Every time I promise myself I won't go and watch us there again. The only reason I did was because of my Dee's supporting mate. I said from the very beginning that we would lose - but I thought it would be by a lot. He was full of negativity during the game about his team but I knew what was coming and said as much. The most disappointing thing was the hope I was given till 3/4 time. I would have preferred to lose by 80 points than 1 and never be in the contest than be given false hope like that. It actually hurt. There was one great positive though and that was the very loud voice of lions supporters and significant support in general. Felt like it was close 50% and I'm very pleased to say that a large % of those were really young adults (lots of young females which is great). The future is bright both on the field and in the stands. Thank you Melbourne lions supporters and well done.

 

[Lockie]

The trouble for Motty and the kick in's was that when he looked up field he saw a paddock of stationary Lions players who were out zoned every single time. He had no options. He ran, he turned and in the end over and over he had to kick it down the line to a contest Oscar was always 10m behind in.

Motty's aggressive kick in's are not the issue - they are in fact an asset. The issue is when no one presents or creates options.

Oscar was so dumbstuck by Gawn last night that his field play was half the reason that those kick in's were never 50/50 contests.

Fair point but sitting right near where Darcy was kicking out there was two times in the last bit where he could have gone across to the right - especially where Lester was out by himself but he choose to go left across to boundary area where Gawn was with Oscar and a herd of Melb players and Gawn marks or taps it down to Melb players. So if the set play is to go to Oscar on kick out we then didn’t adapt. Still gutted

 

[MacMum]

but the players deserve the opportunity to hear a new voice.

The new coach might be a real wizzbang successful one etc but what if the players don't respond to the new voice and lose interest and then what happens.....down we go.

...heard the saying "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"?

...or this one "careful what you wish for"

Mistakes have and will be made by the coach/es and also the players but I'll stick with the current regime at this point in time and ride out the great ride (yes, frustrating at times) Fagan has taken us on..

 

[tate13]

A missed opportunity- I genuinely think we’re a much better team than them atm. Had we won, I thought Port at top 2 was gettable.
That’s gone now, but the upside is we’ll still finish top 4, so I’m prepared to reserve my judgement on the team, coaching etc until we’ve seen the finals series play out.
The MCG hoodoo is pretty lazy reporting tbh. Whilst there’s no doubt there’s some psychological issue there, the 14 out of 15 narrative is unrealistic considering we’ve played about 6 games there (max) since we turned good.
Hopefully we can gather ourselves and launch into a crack at going deeper than previously in finals. There’s really no reason why we can’t.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I will say I’m conflicted, I find this period more disappointing having expectations and constantly being let down compared to expecting and relieving little in return. This is just a wasted five year period with nought to show for it when the club and players have taken this period for granted expecting that it is a rite of passage that sustained success automatically equals a premiership. There is going to be a lot of everlasting regrets by the club, coaches, players and us fans with this premiership window achieving nought- unless some massive decisions are made this off season which I don’t think they will be because loyalty seems to be viewed more favourably than hard decisions that could result in the ultimate success.

I don’t understand what you are basing this on. Why would you think the club expects success to be handed to them?

History also shows mass changes are not always the answer and in fact without looking back I would guess stability in clubs contributes much more to success than turfing everyone and trying to win a flag that way.

I honestly think as supporters we underestimate how much work it takes just to win games let alone finals and a flag so I would rather be competing than not, also tend to drift away from footy when we are terrible as it’s not all that interesting to watch.

 

[Thomasno]

And Melbourne could say the same if Oliver and or Fritch played.

Oliver most overrated player in the comp, and Fritsch wouldn’t have done anything Melksham didn’t already.

Plus with the added defensive bonus of Dunks we likely don’t cough up 4 goals in the last 10 minutes

 

[Thomasno]

Given some of the average players we have on our list and how hard it is to find decent KPF it blows my mind that we wouldn’t stump up and pay McStay more. I have no idea what any of our players are on but there d have to be some guys getting paid way more than they deserve and delivering little compared to what paying more for McStay would have done for our team.

Because McStay is not a “decent” KPF. He’s a good third tall, and not worth the money Collingwood are paying him at all. If we’d matched that or beaten it, I would’ve been much more upset than I am with Gunston being down on form

 

[martinson]

Fair point but sitting right near where Darcy was kicking out there was two times in the last bit where he could have gone across to the right - especially where Lester was out by himself but he choose to go left across to boundary area where Gawn was with Oscar and a herd of Melb players and Gawn marks or taps it down to Melb players. So if the set play is to go to Oscar on kick out we then didn’t adapt. Still gutted

He wouldn't have decided that by himself.

Coaching or instruction by the leaders on the field.

Yes , we were screaming to keep it away from Gawn from shortly into the last quarter.

 

[Thomasno]

He wouldn't have decided that by himself.

Coaching or instruction by the leaders on the field.

Yes , we were screaming to keep it away from Gawn from shortly into the last quarter.

Unless you think Fagan or Harris are telepathically beaming instructions into Wilmots head, I don’t know what you’re on about.

I’m a massive Wilmot fan don’t get me wrong, but he’s allowed to be criticised for errors. It’s an error that comes from inexperience, that’s all. Ironically it actually is a learning moment for him.

 

[buttermuffs]

Man today has been bad. I’m the bargaining stage where I’m just going “why couldn’t we have just closed it out and win by one instead”. Need to do something nice for myself so might bake a cake.

Carlton winning means we still have a chance at top two but would basically have to win every game from here.

 

[Sproj]

I know Port have a lot of players out but we really want to get third, I feel Port is on the verge of running out of puff and we can take them in the finals at home there.

 

[Scubaveg]

I know Port have a lot of players out but we really want to get third, I feel Port is on the verge of running out of puff and we can take them in the finals at home there.

Port have two more losses at least, against pies and cats. A loss to the Crows is not out of the question either.


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[BRAB]

Could have been 4 points away from 2nd place if we’d played proper football in the 4th quarter. Crazy to think about.