Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against Melbourne?


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I've seen enough teams put together a surprise good run of three or four games and make a GF or win a premiership off it to know that thinking missing finals completely might be better is just silly.
GWS made a Grand Final with trips to the GABBA and MCG as their path.

This is the right attitude. Come finals time, it’s a whole new season.

We choked to Richmond at the MCG last year and then not only beat them at the GABBA but then Melbourne at the MCG.

The main effects of a Round 17 loss is 4 points. That’s it. It won’t be mentally scarring or season defining. How we bounce back and continue our run into finals is the most important factor moving forward now.
 
I've seen enough teams put together a surprise good run of three or four games and make a GF or win a premiership off it to know that thinking missing finals completely might be better is just silly.
I can see lots of reasons why we're not able to win a flag. But as long as we stay in the Top 4 the opposition this year isn't anyone we can't beat on our day.

There are a lot worse teams than us that have won a flag.

We need to get the right personnel on the park and learn from our tactical errors that to win it you need to take it
 
Mate I'm looking for a positive spin on what is one of the most difficult losses to take in years!
I'm ecstatic with the game - I only saw a one point loss for a change! 🤔
 

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I was at the game. I didn't join the pile on after 10 minutes, kept the powder dry. I genuinely thought we would run away with it in the second half, and we did for a quarter, and I genuinely did not anticipate what unfolded because we were that comfortable.

In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.

We have a very good squad who, player for player, are right up there in the competition. We need a Matthews, Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick type leader. Winners. Mongrels. Not a 'nice uncle '.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to one game. Fagan is soft, ergo so are the teams he puts out on the field. Until he and his lieutenants are gone, we're winning nothing. Qualifying for the finals seems to be a win for our club...

Anyway, I didn't want to rant. I've thought this for a couple of years. We could/should have won a title during the COVID years.

Fagan is done, and has been for a while. Get rid. Do it soon enough and we might see this squad achieve what they are capable of...unless their mental softness is too far gone.

Get a bastard in and shake things up.

Then get rid of them as soon as we are over the success hump.

They aren't good at club building.
 
In top level sport, whether fair or not, the buck stops with the coach. Fagan is not, and has never been, a head coach. Our 'success' over the past few years has been in spite of him, not because of him. We will look back in a few years and look at the players he had at his disposal and think, what a waste.
Funnily enough I remember the years prior to Fagan. I also don't remember a whole lot of success. If success was coming despite the head coach, then why didn't it come in the prior decade?

You can't say that the buck stops with the coach and then discard all positive results.
 
Well that sucks. Awful feeling. Hard to be unhappy overall though - incredibly competitive effort away against another top 4 side playing the best they have in months.

Won't finish top 2 now, but that mightn't be the worst thing for us.

Proud of the effort we showed tonight on the whole. Step forward, despite the result.
Agree, if we don't finish top 2 I don't think it is the deathknell for our flag chances at all, as long as we don't fall out of the top 4, finish 3rd or 4th we are guaranteed 1 final at the Gabba so we at the very least make a Prelim IMO... from there anything can happen just depends on getting there in good physical shape and with near to our best side on the park.

However if we play too many slow on transition players we could foreseeably go out in straight sets, there will be some handy sides in the 5-8 ladder positions come finals, lose the qualifying final and you could even run into the Cats in a semi final.
 
Undoubtedly Fagan has had great success at the Lions ,and particularly in enticing A Grade players to the club.

That doesn't mean there aren't elements of truth in what some of his critics on here are saying which seem to relate to coaching style and tactics.

No coach is the full package . It's a tough gig . Eventually they all run their race whatever success they have.

I honestly have no idea where we would/wouldn't be without Fagan or whether he's the right person to make us better but overall you'd have to say he's developed a very competitive outfit in his time here.
 
Wow. You have taken this loss really badly lol. Some super hot takes over the past 12 hours.

Genuinely unsure why people like that don’t just walk away from sports altogether if it affects them that much.

There’s a similar guy on the subreddit that will just tear into the team if it’s anything but a comfortable win.
 
One more thing we could've tried - if Berry isn't working out in the wing, swapped him with Wilmot - push him into defense to wrestle with Petracca. Poor Starce was slightly outsized and was struggling all game, Berry to Petracca in defense would've made some impact.

We will run into this mob in finals and hopefully with Dunkley back, we can go Dunkley vs Oliver and Berry vs Petracca.
 
Funnily enough I remember the years prior to Fagan. I also don't remember a whole lot of success. If success was coming despite the head coach, then why didn't it come in the prior decade?

You can't say that the buck stops with the coach and then discard all positive results.
What happened to those coaches prior to Fagan? And the players they had to work with were not nearly as good.

Positive results=winning trophies. Even the best in the business, in any sport, are only as good as their last game. The smart ones read the writing on the wall, before they are pushed.

Fagan is not the man to lead this club. Maybe, as previously suggested, he would be more of an asset in a behind the scenes role, or move him upstairs into a made up position?
 
Undoubtedly Fagan has had great success at the Lions ,and particularly in enticing A Grade players to the club.

That doesn't mean there aren't elements of truth in what some of his critics on here are saying which seem to relate to coaching style and tactics.

No coach is the full package . It's a tough gig . Eventually they all run their race whatever success they have.

I honestly have no idea where we would/wouldn't be without Fagan or whether he's the right person to make us better but overall you'd have to say he's developed a very competitive outfit in his time here.
This is a pretty good summary of my feelings too. He turned us from a laughing stock into a perennial contender. You can't discard that if you're trying to make any rational criticism of him.

Does that mean he can lead a club to a premiership? Well obviously he hasn't yet, and though plenty of other coaches have taken similar amounts of time and almost been moved on even it's a valid topic for discussions.

However there's also zero guarantee any other name floating would be better, and statistically they're likely to be worse just given the high bar Fagan has set.
 
There’s a similar guy on the subreddit that will just tear into the team if it’s anything but a comfortable win.
No problem at all with riding the ups and downs and getting fired up but a bit of perspective and learning not to overreact goes a long way. It's a lack of self control. They just brush it off as "venting" and "heat of the moment" stuff but its embarrassing I think.
 

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What happened to those coaches prior to Fagan? And the players they had to work with were not nearly as good.
Part of the reason for better players coming here and better development of players is also due to Fagan.
Positive results=winning trophies. Even the best in the business, in any sport, are only as good as their last game. The smart ones read the writing on the wall, before they are pushed.
Coaches who repeatedly get their teams closer to a premiership get more leeway because there is a visible opportunity.

If you can't see the difference between Fagan vs Voss and Leppa's times at the club, I think it's pretty obvious there's no degree of rationality in the arguments being made.
Fagan is not the man to lead this club. Maybe, as previously suggested, he would be more of an asset in a behind the scenes role, or move him upstairs into a made up position?
If you want him gone he's not about to take a lesser role at our club. He'd be snapped up quickly.
 
I agree with you. Fagan was a big reason we were able to lure big name players. But is he the right man and can he take us to a grand final?
Not sure, but it is super disrespectful to suggest he is not an excellent coach in his own way. Of course we all want success but let’s get some perspective hey.

(Referring to the original poster not yourself stark).
 
One more thing we could've tried - if Berry isn't working out in the wing, swapped him with Wilmot - push him into defense to wrestle with Petracca. Poor Starce was slightly outsized and was struggling all game, Berry to Petracca in defense would've made some impact.

We will run into this mob in finals and hopefully with Dunkley back, we can go Dunkley vs Oliver and Berry vs Petracca.
Appreciate your comment but if you watched berry running around last night he looked as slow as anything. Petracca was getting some of his goals in open space goal side from stoppages so if Berry was on him no way he would have anychance of keeping up with him. He may have kicked 6. Petracca is still pretty quick across the ground compared to us anyway so IMO berry would not have been able to keep up with him.
 
The consensus view is we tried to run down the clock way too early.

Solution pretty simple. Collingwood doing it well. Must play without fear. If you’re up by 4 goals keep attacking as if you are down by 4. Play without fear of losing, and if you lose cop that.

2nd and 3rd Q, we played with flair. Finally we played some good football, used the corridor, ran in numbers, played on at every opportunity, which gives the forwards a chance when the ball moves there quickly and opposition doesn’t have time to get numbers back.
 
Charlie's one is an interesting situation. I wonder the whole defense/mids/forwards working as a crew is a bit obsessed over at the moment compared to playing team footy across all ranks. Stretching a long bow here but when Fletcher lined up and kicked that goal, Charlie was in front screaming for a pass. Didn't look that happy about him kicking a goal either. I remember Charlie running towards I50 with the ball few plays later and Fletcher was wide open on the I50 but he chose to hit a much harder pass to Hipwood which didn't get marked. I don't want to read much into this but it seems like the whole gelling as a group isn't there yet. There seems to be some sort of divide between established players and the newbies coming to the fold.
Well the Fletcher goal was one of those goals that was just brilliant, but if he missed it would of stunk.
I was thinking about it earlier today ,I wonder if someone was in the open in front of goal and chose to go for goal.
Then you have to say if you back yourself go for goal, but you have to wear critism if you burn someone and miss.
 
Appreciate your comment but if you watched berry running around last night he looked as slow as anything. Petracca was getting some of his goals in open space goal side from stoppages so if Berry was on him no way he would have anychance of keeping up with him. He may have kicked 6. Petracca is still pretty quick across the ground compared to us anyway so IMO berry would not have been able to keep up with him.

Must be playing injured then. We should get him fit for finals rather than let him plod along in the wing. Fully fit Jarrod has pretty good pace, decent ground coverage as well as can wrestle with bigger bodied mids and forwards.
 
Appreciate your comment but if you watched berry running around last night he looked as slow as anything. Petracca was getting some of his goals in open space goal side from stoppages so if Berry was on him no way he would have anychance of keeping up with him. He may have kicked 6. Petracca is still pretty quick across the ground compared to us anyway so IMO berry would not have been able to keep up with him.
Bez's best and worst is so far apart that even though I'm sick of the narrative that he's carrying an injury it's getting a bit frustrating to know which one will turn up and I'm wondering if there is some endemic physical issue.
 
See, this is the reason I hesitated to 'debate' you. Whether deliberate or not, you always come across as condescending and pompous.

Whatever...
No worries. I like facts and rationality in my discussions on here, which does make it tough to live up to. :)
 
Must be playing injured then. We should get him fit for finals rather than let him plod along in the wing. Fully fit Jarrod has pretty good pace, decent ground coverage as well as can wrestle with bigger bodied mids and forwards.
Berry and Zorko can’t run at top pace because of their respective leg issues. This is one of their main weapons and without that they become liabilities imo. That’s why they were both either subbed out or sitting on the bench for most of the last quarter. Neither should have played last night imo.
 

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Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

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