Preview Round 2 - Adelaide v Port Adelaide @ AO Saturday 13/6 @ 7pm

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It will be, Roo has already said that publicly.

It was good to hear that but I'll wait until I see the team we pick before celebrating

 

[Golumless]

What if that was our chance in 2017 and we blew it? Tbh we were never going to have a better chance than that year to win it. There was no standout team and it was the perfect year to pinch a flag as richmond unfortunately did. If you remember in 2017 we had a very strong home record but nothing to write home about away against top 5 teams. Generally interstate premiers perform strongly away against top teams if they are to win on the mcg in sept. The reasons 2017 was our best chance are that the experienced best players were declining post 2017 and not on the incline which is where you want your core experienced group to be to have a consistent run at multiple flags. We also lost Cameron and Lever. Cameron was a massive loss, Lever not so. Losing McGovern the following year meant our contested marking was gone along with the inevitavle decline of Lynch, Walker and Betts. The Gibbs trade was farcical and beyond a joke for what we gave up. No decent club would have entertained it let alone done it. Disagree strongly about your thoughts on what should have been done after 2017. I know what Clarko would have done as he looks at a team honestly whether it wins the flag or finishes last. Thats why they win flags and we dont.

The only way you know if that is your chance or not is by proceeding forth and exhausting all possibility of a premiership with the side you have. Otherwise, that shit haunts you, think '05 and '06 where our stubborn refusal to trade for a key forward probably did cost us a premiership as an example of it. Odds are 2017 was our best shot, but the league was equally as vulnerable in 2018 and 2019 as there is no dynasty team with neither GWS, or GC (or us seeing we were set up to be that dynasty team until draft sanctions occurred) filling that Hawthorn void. Richmond will probably be that dynasty team by default, but its more likely they're just making the most of both a weaker league and being able to play finals without travelling (noting how shit they are away from home).

We needed midfield reinforcements, had the collateral to do it and Gibbs at that point showed no signs of slowing down or decline. Hell Gibbs 2018 showed none of those signs seeing he was comfortably contributing, though wasn't as much of a hit as we probably internally hoped for (more filling in that 3rd/4th midfielder role). What happened in 2019 is something that can happen to any player at any time, Gibbs found the cliff. It's a shit happens moment, nothing more, nothing less. Whilst I do think we lacked creativity with that trade, did buy into the "Adelaide is a shit place to live" and the we've been scorned mentality too much by the baffling decision by the AFL to not gift us Gibbs in 2006, Gibbs was a midfielder performing at a high enough level for it to be a worthwhile gamble. It works and the Gibbs trade is comparable to bringing in Darren Jarman in that we bought a premiership off that move (not to say they're comparable players, just the stakes). It doesn't and it is frustrating, but ultimately doesn't do much damage to the club due to still being able to retain a 2017 and 2018 first-round pick and second-round picks, which allows for a normal influx of talent, as well as us coming to a situation where we'd need to refresh anyway.

Clarko wouldn't have done anything outside of staying the course, not dwell on the lost grand final too much and just reinforce where need be. That's what Hawthorn did in 2012 when they lost a grand final. Just keep it simple, target where you need to with trades (Brian Lake) and refresh next year. He backed in a bit of youth as well with Hill and Suckling becoming starters in that time. That's what we didn't do because we dwelled on the loss, started heavily consuming the snake oil of "mental toughness" (which in turn caused a justifiable mutiny) and tried to reinvent the wheel. This club has an unfortunate habit of making shit too complicated at the moment something goes wrong. That is why we don't win flags.

McGovern was definitely the point we should have said, ok, time for a rebuild. He was the piece that made four key forwards tick, and football is about how a unit functions as a whole at its heart. Especially at that time, Betts had showed 15 months of decline which indicates that we were just about done. You probably need all three of McGovern and Cameron leaving and Betts declining for that forward line to be done in 2018, which is what occurred, unfortunately.

 

[WetCrow1991]

What if that was our chance in 2017 and we blew it? Tbh we were never going to have a better chance than that year to win it. There was no standout team and it was the perfect year to pinch a flag as richmond unfortunately did. If you remember in 2017 we had a very strong home record but nothing to write home about away against top 5 teams. Generally interstate premiers perform strongly away against top teams if they are to win on the mcg in sept. The reasons 2017 was our best chance are that the experienced best players were declining post 2017 and not on the incline which is where you want your core experienced group to be to have a consistent run at multiple flags. We also lost Cameron and Lever. Cameron was a massive loss, Lever not so. Losing McGovern the following year meant our contested marking was gone along with the inevitavle decline of Lynch, Walker and Betts. The Gibbs trade was farcical and beyond a joke for what we gave up. No decent club would have entertained it let alone done it. Disagree strongly about your thoughts on what should have been done after 2017. I know what Clarko would have done as he looks at a team honestly whether it wins the flag or finishes last. Thats why they win flags and we dont.

I think we had a better chance in 2016, we just completely choked near the end of the home and away season.

 

[Murray2503]

The only way you know if that is your chance or not is by proceeding forth and exhausting all possibility of a premiership with the side you have. Otherwise, that shit haunts you, think '05 and '06 where our stubborn refusal to trade for a key forward probably did cost us a premiership as an example of it. Odds are 2017 was our best shot, but the league was equally as vulnerable in 2018 and 2019 as there is no dynasty team with neither GWS, or GC (or us seeing we were set up to be that dynasty team until draft sanctions occurred) filling that Hawthorn void. Richmond will probably be that dynasty team by default, but its more likely they're just making the most of both a weaker league and being able to play finals without travelling (noting how shit they are away from home).

We needed midfield reinforcements, had the collateral to do it and Gibbs at that point showed no signs of slowing down or decline. Hell Gibbs 2018 showed none of those signs seeing he was comfortably contributing. What happened in 2019 is something that can happen to any player at any time, Gibbs found the cliff. It's a shit happens moment, nothing more, nothing less. Whilst I do think we lacked creativity with that trade, did buy into the "Adelaide is a shit place to live" and the we've been scorned mentality too much by the baffling decision by the AFL to not gift us Gibbs in 2006, Gibbs was a midfielder performing at a high enough level for it to be a worthwhile gamble. It works and the Gibbs trade is comparable to bringing in Darren Jarman in that we bought a premiership off that move (not to say they're comparable players, just the stakes). It doesn't and it is frustrating, but ultimately doesn't do much damage to the club due to still being able to retain a 2017 and 2018 first-round pick and second-round picks, which allows for a normal influx of talent, as well as us coming to a situation where we'd need to refresh anyway.

Clarko wouldn't have done anything outside of staying the course, not dwell on the lost grand final too much and just reinforce where need be. That's what Hawthorn did in 2012 when they lost a grand final. Just keep it simple, target where you need to with trades (Brian Lake) and refresh next year. He backed in a bit of youth as well with Hill and Suckling becoming starters in that time. That's what we didn't do because we dwelled on the loss, started heavily consuming the snake oil of "mental toughness" and tried to reinvent the wheel. This club has an unfortunate habit of making shit too complicated at the moment something goes wrong.

Darren Jarman was a star and a matchwinner and likely only came here in his peak to play with his brother. Gibbs has never been a matchwinner even at Carlton. I never saw him as a great player and he came here purely for money which we later found out why. It was the worst trade in the clubs history, even worse than wayne carey imo. Gibbs couldn't carry Darren Jarmans boots. I have nothing against him personally. I agree we needed midfielders. We could have gained a midfielder by trading out a key player in our forward half our backline to gain it. You don't give up your future for an aging player.

 

[Golumless]

Darren Jarman was a star and a matchwinner and likely only came here in his peak to play with his brother. Gibbs has never been a matchwinner even at Carlton. I never saw him as a great player and he came here purely for money which we later found out why. It was the worst trade in the clubs history, even worse than wayne carey imo. Gibbs couldn't carry Darren Jarmans boots. I have nothing against him personally. I agree we needed midfielders. We could have gained a midfielder by trading out a key player in our forward half our backline to gain it. You don't give up your future for an aging player.

I did say I was just comparing stakes. Matchwinners in football are a rare beast, and even then we just needed more midfield power. We had a forward line that as a unit was one of the most powerful to have existed in the AFL (2nd behind Geelong '94 in terms of points scored) and really it was just making sure we lessened the probability of being overpowered by other teams in the middle to try to maximise that.

We effectively did that. Traded out a "key player" in Lever to get the collateral needed to bring in Gibbs. One of our best bits of business this decade paired with one of our worst now that all is said and done. Doing that put us 1 first short in 2017 but gave us an extra 1st in 2018. That pairing with Lever is what saves the Gibbs deal from damaging our future.

 

[Golumless]

A lot of people didn't think so, but if that's what we can expect to see from Rat these days I like it.

Whilst it wasn't a 4 quarter game, defensively he was pretty on, and was rather tough with 5 tackles. Hopefully that becomes the minimum from here in that even if the offense is patchy (in which he is an outside player and competing in a position which should get more crowded), at least he is contributing defensively.

 

[huludicidal]

The team I would pick:

B: Doedee Talia Brown
HB: Laird McAsey Milera
C: Atkins M Crouch Seedsman
HF: Lynch Walker Smith
F: McAdam Fogarty Murphy
R: O’Brien B Crouch Sloane
Int: Jones, Kelly, Hamill, Davis

Emg (from): Butts, Himmelberg, McHenry, Schoenberg, Sholl

In: Doedee, Hamill, McAdam
Out: Stengle (susp), Frampton (hot garbage), Gibbs (career over)

Notes:
* Kelly is trialled in a tagging role - we sorely lack a big body on the inside after losing CEY and Greenwood and need someone with strength around the contest. There is nobody else on the entire list with these traits other than Patrick Wilson and he’s just not even close to ever being an AFL standard player. O’Connor will play this role in the future and was a great pickup. I just don’t think he’s ready yet.

Some might not see the point of playing Kelly here in the meantime, but if you couldn’t see that our midfield structure was all wrong in Rd 1 (no defensive mids, no big bodies at all, got absolutely obliterated at clearances as a result) then I can’t help you. The fact that Kelly is the only option to potentially assist with this deficiency should tell you a lot about the state of the list.

* Smith goes to half forward. Looked great there last year at times. Gallucci, Poholke, Knight and Jones have all proven that they can’t play there at this point, and they all need to either be put in the bin (Gallucci and Knight) or played as mids (Jones and Poholke). Time to send some class to this position. We have a million half backs and very decent few half forwards. B Crouch and Sloane need to spend some more time up forward too.

* Bin the 2nd ruck nonsense. Neither of Frampton or Himmelberg would get a game right now for any other team in the AFL. A 197cm plus forward should be our number one or two priority this offseason because neither of these guys are likely to ever be the answer.

* Hand both of Hamill and McAdam a debut. With the suspension to Stengle and the sheer incompetence of Gibbs, these spots are open at either end of the ground. You know it makes sense. You also know it won’t happen. *sigh

* Jones plays midfield or forward pocket only. He is not a half forward. He never will be. Stop destroying the confidence of one of the very few top 10 draft picks we’ve ever had by stuffing him in no man’s land and LET HIM PLAY HIS NATURAL GAME.


Fully aware this won’t happen and that we’ll either select Gibbs or replace him with Mackay, we’ll persist with Frampton bcoz hE pRoViD3z a ChOp oUt & dAtS vAlUaBlE, Hamill won’t debut until about Rd 10, Hartigan is likely to oust McAsey soon enough, Kelly will remain in defence in a stupid matchup regardless of Doedee’s return, we’ll persist with undersized short people in the midfield and wonder why we get smashed at the clearances, and Jones will either be dropped or played predominantly as a half forward.

I’m all for finishing last, but there should at least be some future planning going into this season. Based on Rd 1, I have my doubts.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I'm expecting it to take a few more delistings and a bit more turnover of youth before that occurs. Both on off-field staff and on-field.

It's practically rock bottom that we're coming back from and I really don't think Nicks is capable of that in one season (not to say he doesn't have a premiership coach in him, but I do think this is one of those situations where you need to have experience in being a head coach to pull it off). He is no Blight.

It's a 2-3 year thing for me.

I agree it's a 2 -3 year rebuild ....re Nicks, clubs always choose a particular type of Coach with a set of specific attributes, at the expense of other skills

Nicks was chosen primarily off the back of his strong communication skills, and ability to bring a team back together ......that's good short term, but does he have the mongrel and tactical nouse to get us a Premiership ....can he make the tough calls

Looking at the profiles of Premiership Coaches, I'm not sure .....but then Hardwick is probably the closest to Nicks in profile

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It will be, Roo has already said that publicly.

That's a fine line you walk .....develop youth, maintain selection authenticity & not upset the better players in the team, who still want to win

But the off-sesaon delistings and trades .....plus inevitable injuries that WILL come from being under-prepared, will ensure plenty of youth will play ......only point though, is, it'll be the youth more susceptible to injury this year

 

[Greenac]

Crows by 23. Absolutely no reason we can't win, we are the superior side.

 

[Truck25]

Looks like it. I don't quite know what it is with Schoenberg but he must play as soon as possible,

I haven't seen a lot of him but what I have I like.

 

[relapse]

Why the F is this our home game?

We played at home in Round 1 and it was supposed to be Port's home according the previous schedule.

Once again Port are going to be getting looked after by getting 1 extra home game.

Joke

 

[Scorpus]

Why the F is this our home game?

We played at home in Round 1 and it was supposed to be Port's home according the previous schedule.

Once again Port are going to be getting looked after by getting 1 extra home game.

Joke

This is Port's home game

 

[Jarman3]

After years of ripping into Carlton for measuring a successful season on a top 2 draft pick, I’m ashamed that a % of our supporter base is happy to accept a loss to Kern’s mob in pursuit of this goal.

What a sad club we have become.

On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

For me it's more a case that I just genuinely do not give a **** about this season. It's so compromised that I'd be perfectly happy to just cancel the whole thing and try again next year. But as they're not doing that, I'm just treating it as an extended preseason for next year - I don't give a toss who wins the flag even if it's us (which it won't be). So if all we're playing are essentially practice matches (although in front of smaller crowds than the usual Community Series games), why would I care if we win them? While the flag isn't worth much this year in my eyes, the players we draft could shape our destiny for the next decade, so why not focus on that?

 

[relapse]

This is Port's home game

Ah my mistake

I saw Round 2 listed somewhere yesterday (maybe fox footy website?) and our name was first hence why I thought it was our game.

Glad that this is not the case

 

[JP Sauce]

It was good to hear that but I'll wait until I see the team we pick before celebrating

What better way to develop than by watching from the sidelines as Mackay, Gibbs, etc. run out onto Adelaide Oval?

 

[Jack is Back]

Crows by 23. Absolutely no reason we can't win, we are the superior side.

Did you miss the second half of the last Showdown?

Positives for round one selection were McAsey instead of Hartigan and no Mackay. The main negative was selecting Gibbs. Kelly was/is a 50/50 decision when looking towards the future.

We need to see what Frampton and Himmelberg have to offer. There is a solid argument for playing only one ruckman (= ROB) but imho this is also a 50/50 decision.

My preferred changes;
Out: Stengle, Gibbs, Kelly
In: McHenry, Hamill, Doedee

 

[Thetrader15]

Ah my mistake

I saw Round 2 listed somewhere yesterday (maybe fox footy website?) and our name was first hence why I thought it was our game.

Glad that this is not the case

Seriously, does it really matter? They can all be away games as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Golumless]

For me it's more a case that I just genuinely do not give a **** about this season. It's so compromised that I'd be perfectly happy to just cancel the whole thing and try again next year. But as they're not doing that, I'm just treating it as an extended preseason for next year - I don't give a toss who wins the flag even if it's us (which it won't be). So if all we're playing are essentially practice matches (although in front of smaller crowds than the usual Community Series games), why would I care if we win them? While the flag isn't worth much this year in my eyes, the players we draft could shape our destiny for the next decade, so why not focus on that?

Eh, the flag is worth as much as every other year. Only loser clubs worry about asterixes.

 

[Thetrader15]

My preferred team:

FB Brown Talia Doedee
HB Milera McAsey Laird
C Seedsman M Crouch Jones
HF Lynch Walker McHenry
FF Davis Fogarty McAdam
R ROB B Crouch Sloane
IC Murphy Atkins Smith Hamill

 

[Betts are off]

The good news for Port is if there are no fans at their home Showdown it substantially lowers the chance of someone screaming a racist vulgarity over the fence...

I mean there will still be Port employees at the game so they probably can't completely rule it out...

 

[thebirdman 24]

It's a shame Stengle is out, he looked like a good slippery forward in Round One. Does this open the door to McHenry or is he not available? I got high expectations for him as I'm not convinced we nailed those early picks.

No Mackay in Round One was good but I feel with the lack of experience in the box they will roll out all the senior players. Gibbs was atrocious but he will stay as Nicks thought he had a good game :S

Schoenberg would be good to see but unlikely, same with Hamill/Scholl.

 

[hey shorty]

It's a shame Stengle is out, he looked like a good slippery forward in Round One. Does this open the door to McHenry or is he not available? I got high expectations for him as I'm not convinced we nailed those early picks.

No Mackay in Round One was good but I feel with the lack of experience in the box they will roll out all the senior players. Gibbs was atrocious but he will stay as Nicks thought he had a good game :S

Schoenberg would be good to see but unlikely, same with Hamill/Scholl.

Hamill was aroynd the mark, he wouldn't be too far away.

 

[Betts are off]

It's a shame Stengle is out, he looked like a good slippery forward in Round One. Does this open the door to McHenry or is he not available? I got high expectations for him as I'm not convinced we nailed those early picks.

No Mackay in Round One was good but I feel with the lack of experience in the box they will roll out all the senior players. Gibbs was atrocious but he will stay as Nicks thought he had a good game :S

Schoenberg would be good to see but unlikely, same with Hamill/Scholl.

Me, after being forced to recall Gibbs' preseason and week 1 performances for the 1st time in 8 weeks....

 

[dogs105]

Meh