Review Round 20 v Collingwood

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PortVic said:
I would rather DBJ hack kick as far as possible. The amount of times he tries to pinpoint a 15m stab pass in our defensive 50. With the amount of half backs we have, get what ever you can for him. McKenzie body has given up. No way he gets another year!
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Deplorable disposal by DBJ again. He has the occasional good game but since his AA he's lacked composure in many games.
 

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power09 said:
worse than Flipper Phillips?
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Phillips kicked 7 goals from 9 games for us, McEntee currently has 1 from 6. Phillips averaged about 11 disposals a game to McEntee's 6. Phillips averaged nearly 4 tackles a game to McEntee's 2.3. And Phillips at least had speed as his one AFL quality attribute.

So yes, Phillips was better than McEntee and by some distance. As were Jake Neade, Cameron Hitchcock, Aidyn Johnson, Cameron Sutcliffe, Boyd Woodcock or any other spud you can think of. McEntee is a historically bad footballer.
 
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Not only has McEntee only scored 1 goal from his 6 games this year, he has also failed to record a single goal assist.

He averages 6 touches at barely over 50% efficiency.

He only averages a tick over 2 tackles per game, despite that apparently being his greatest strength. For reference, even Dylan Williams managed 3 tackles in his game last year, and he made 2015 fat Jarrad Redden look like a marathon runner.

It's genuinely incredible that a player who offers this little has played 6 AFL games. You could pick a random ammos forward pocket and drop them into the AFL tomorrow they wouldn't offer much less than 3 effective disposals, 2 tackles, 0.16 goals and 0 goal assists per game. And yet we've given him more opportunities than we've given Jase Burgoyne, and only one less than Miles Bergman and Sam Hayes.

I post all this not as a criticism of Jed McEntee himself, who I'm sure is a good guy and trying his best, but of the muppets who recruited, re-contracted and selected him for a role that he's not even close to qualified for.
 
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Schulzenfest said:
Phillips kicked 7 goals from 9 games for us, McEntee currently has 1 from 6. Phillips averaged about 11 disposals a game to McEntee's 6. Phillips averaged nearly 4 tackles a game to McEntee's 2.3. And Phillips at least had speed as his one AFL quality attribute.

So yes, Phillips was better than McEntee and by some distance. As were Jake Neade, Cameron Hitchcock, Aidyn Johnson, Boyd Woodcock or any other spud you can think of. McEntee is a historically bad footballer.
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point taken, i thought this was like his 2nd game. he really is invisible
so thats 2 of the worst players iv ever seen in one year because sam skinner was definitely up there.
 
I feel sort of bad for slamming McEntee, I think he's trying his best and his workrate and effort is excellent, but he's just a limited footballer in the long tradition of Ken Hinkley pumping games into guys who aren't going to become AFL standard.
 
Pappagallo said:
How we do things is Hinkley’s responsibility. Who we have at our disposal to do them is partly his responsibility at the front end (recruitment) and mostly his responsibility at the back end (selection).

If these things are sub-optimal then it’s Hinkley’s fault and the buck stops with him. He’s had a decade to get the balance right. He hasn’t and he won’t. It’s madness to let him continue at this point.

Changing the coach is the only fix for the two issues you’ve identified. Nothing’s guaranteed, the new guy might not get it right either, but his odds are better than Zero.
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And this has always been my point.

In the past 10 years, what players have we missed out on at the draft that you would select over the players we picked?

2013 draft - we select Jarman Impey after trading Pick 14 to get two second round picks to give one to Brisbane for Polec. The guys in between 14 and our selection were Cam McCarthy, Zak Jones, Darcy Lang, Michael Apeness, Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres and Jack Leslie. A guy we could have picked is Zach Merrett but seeing what happened with him staying with Essendon, there's no guarantee he even sticks around due to what is happening with his mother. We also pick Darcy Byrne-Jones and Karl Amon late.

2014 draft - We think we are close to a flag so we trade our first and second round picks for Patrick Ryder. We don't do this to replace Lobbe, because we believe that he'll continue his 2014 form with his second efforts etc, but to get a forward/ruck. When you look at the draft and the selections we could have picked if we kept our draft picks, even though it didn't work out I'm still picking Ryder ten times out of ten. We also pick up Dougal Howard and Logan Austin so it's not like we're ignoring our lack of defenders.

2015 draft - for all the talk of Hinkley not valuing key forwards, we ended up trading Pick 10 and a 2016 second round pick for Dixon instead of just keeping it and selecting either Harry McKay or Charlie Curnow. We pick Riley Bonner with 37 and actually try to address our small forward problem by picking Aidyn Johnson - again, go through the draft and you'll see there was hardly anything available for us.

2016 draft - once we have a decent key forward in Dixon, we do a deal with Sydney to get their first round pick and select Marshall with our first pick and Powell-Pepper with the next first round pick. In a perfect world, Shai Bolton slips 3 spots and we pick him up with the pick we used on Joe Atley. Hindsight says that we draft Bolton with the Powell-Pepper pick but that could be said about every single club in the draft.

2017 draft - There is literally no player in the first round from 12 on (our pick was used on Darcy Fogarty) I would take over Powell-Pepper right now. In hindsight, trading our second round pick for Watts was a mistake - could have had Fritsch or Petty. But again, at this point in time we had Howard on our list and he was developing nicely. We pick Hayes and Farrell and again, trying to fix our lack of a small forward, we pick Dom Barry. The difference between us and Geelong is that it worked for them with Stengle, it didn't work for us.

2018 draft - trade out Wingard, Polec and Pittard. Get Rozee, Butters, Duursma and Burton, plus Mayes as steak knives. Even with Duursma's loss of form this year, I'm doing those trades and picking those players ten times out of ten. The only real small forward available is Rankine and he wasn't available to us.

2019 draft - trade out Howard. I'll keep saying it that our plan was to pick Bergman, Georgiades and De Koning (as a replacement for Howard), and that Geelong had exactly the same plan, hence why we traded with Carlton as soon as Geelong made their selection. Could have picked Weightman as that small forward over Bergman, but I'm glad we didn't. End up with Bergman, Georgiades (another key forward), Williams (still searching for a crafty small forward after striking out with Johnson and Barry) and Mead. Recruiting seems to indicate that we were probably aware that Amon was going to leave in 2022 at this point, which is why we went for Bergman who could slot into a wing position.

2020 draft - draft Jones. Looking at the draft itself it was pretty slim, which is why we traded out of it and got Aliir and Fantasia. Pick up Schofield as well.

2021 draft - halfway through the season, we select McEntee because again, we're STILL looking for a small forward with speed. This gets doubled down on after getting burnt by the Dogs midfield, target and get Josh Sinn. Tried to convince Merrett to come as a FA, he resigns with Essendon. Try to address our lack of key defenders by selecting Sam Skinner as a DFA.

We've been looking for a small creative forward so badly that we were playing spuds like Jake Neade and Sam Gray in the role because at least they put on pressure. But we've always, ALWAYS been looking to upgrade that position. We put Impey up forward and he seemed to have an idea what to do but then he ****ed off to Hawthorn. We tried Johnson and he was hopeless. We tried Barry - the same. Tobin Cox. Boyd Woodcock. We drafted Williams in the hope that he could make something out of nothing and I'm still holding out that hope but he needs to get a move on in the off-season. It's so bad that we are forced to pick McEntee because at least he has the fitness to run out games.

It's not like the coaches haven't identified what we need.

It's frustrating as **** because the way the game has evolved, the small forward is the one who produces a lot of your scoring - and because of this, the elite small forward goes pretty high in the draft. A good team defence will blanket the key forwards and bring the ball to ground. When Rozee and Butters are playing up forward, we can score...but we need Rozee and Butters delivering to them.

Get me a Harry Sheezel or a Brayden George with our first pick - someone who can play R1 in the forward line - put him alongside Fantasia, and I guarantee we improve out of sight, regardless who coaches us. If we stupidly pick anything OTHER than a general forward - like the midfielder or key defender that some people keep suggesting - then we will waste another season.

I said a few weeks ago that this season might be the recession we had to have. This is the reason.
 

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Cwood weren't that good. We were terrible apart from SPP and Jase. McRae completely outcoached Kenneth. They closed down our space, pressured the ball carrier and we went to jelly. Some real soft efforts. The Mcentee experiment should be over. I would have rather seen Mots in his spot. He could not have been worse.
 
Farrel has escaped criticism. He was put into the backline because we were missing Bonner, Houston & their kicking.

He barely hit a target all day. Constant long kicks to disadvantage, or worse, to grass. He plays half forward in place of JMac or not at all.
 
Sleezy said:
Farrel has escaped criticism. He was put into the backline because we were missing Bonner, Houston & their kicking.

He barely hit a target all day. Constant long kicks to disadvantage, or worse, to grass. He plays half forward in place of JMac or not at all.
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He’s become a bit cocky after all the long goals.
 
Janus said:
And this has always been my point.

In the past 10 years, what players have we missed out on at the draft that you would select over the players we picked?

2013 draft - we select Jarman Impey after trading Pick 14 to get two second round picks to give one to Brisbane for Polec. The guys in between 14 and our selection were Cam McCarthy, Zak Jones, Darcy Lang, Michael Apeness, Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres and Jack Leslie. A guy we could have picked is Zach Merrett but seeing what happened with him staying with Essendon, there's no guarantee he even sticks around due to what is happening with his mother. We also pick Darcy Byrne-Jones and Karl Amon late.

2014 draft - We think we are close to a flag so we trade our first and second round picks for Patrick Ryder. We don't do this to replace Lobbe, because we believe that he'll continue his 2014 form with his second efforts etc, but to get a forward/ruck. When you look at the draft and the selections we could have picked if we kept our draft picks, even though it didn't work out I'm still picking Ryder ten times out of ten. We also pick up Dougal Howard and Logan Austin so it's not like we're ignoring our lack of defenders.

2015 draft - for all the talk of Hinkley not valuing key forwards, we ended up trading Pick 10 and a 2016 second round pick for Dixon instead of just keeping it and selecting either Harry McKay or Charlie Curnow. We pick Riley Bonner with 37 and actually try to address our small forward problem by picking Aidyn Johnson - again, go through the draft and you'll see there was hardly anything available for us.

2016 draft - once we have a decent key forward in Dixon, we do a deal with Sydney to get their first round pick and select Marshall with our first pick and Powell-Pepper with the next first round pick. In a perfect world, Shai Bolton slips 3 spots and we pick him up with the pick we used on Joe Atley. Hindsight says that we draft Bolton with the Powell-Pepper pick but that could be said about every single club in the draft.

2017 draft - There is literally no player in the first round from 12 on (our pick was used on Darcy Fogarty) I would take over Powell-Pepper right now. In hindsight, trading our second round pick for Watts was a mistake - could have had Fritsch or Petty. But again, at this point in time we had Howard on our list and he was developing nicely. We pick Hayes and Farrell and again, trying to fix our lack of a small forward, we pick Dom Barry. The difference between us and Geelong is that it worked for them with Stengle, it didn't work for us.

2018 draft - trade out Wingard, Polec and Pittard. Get Rozee, Butters, Duursma and Burton, plus Mayes as steak knives. Even with Duursma's loss of form this year, I'm doing those trades and picking those players ten times out of ten. The only real small forward available is Rankine and he wasn't available to us.

2019 draft - trade out Howard. I'll keep saying it that our plan was to pick Bergman, Georgiades and De Koning (as a replacement for Howard), and that Geelong had exactly the same plan, hence why we traded with Carlton as soon as Geelong made their selection. Could have picked Weightman as that small forward over Bergman, but I'm glad we didn't. End up with Bergman, Georgiades (another key forward), Williams (still searching for a crafty small forward after striking out with Johnson and Barry) and Mead. Recruiting seems to indicate that we were probably aware that Amon was going to leave in 2022 at this point, which is why we went for Bergman who could slot into a wing position.

2020 draft - draft Jones. Looking at the draft itself it was pretty slim, which is why we traded out of it and got Aliir and Fantasia. Pick up Schofield as well.

2021 draft - halfway through the season, we select McEntee because again, we're STILL looking for a small forward with speed. This gets doubled down on after getting burnt by the Dogs midfield, target and get Josh Sinn. Tried to convince Merrett to come as a FA, he resigns with Essendon. Try to address our lack of key defenders by selecting Sam Skinner as a DFA.

We've been looking for a small creative forward so badly that we were playing spuds like Jake Neade and Sam Gray in the role because at least they put on pressure. But we've always, ALWAYS been looking to upgrade that position. We put Impey up forward and he seemed to have an idea what to do but then he *ed off to Hawthorn. We tried Johnson and he was hopeless. We tried Barry - the same. Tobin Cox. Boyd Woodcock. We drafted Williams in the hope that he could make something out of nothing and I'm still holding out that hope but he needs to get a move on in the off-season. It's so bad that we are forced to pick McEntee because at least he has the fitness to run out games.

It's not like the coaches haven't identified what we need.

It's frustrating as * because the way the game has evolved, the small forward is the one who produces a lot of your scoring - and because of this, the elite small forward goes pretty high in the draft. A good team defence will blanket the key forwards and bring the ball to ground. When Rozee and Butters are playing up forward, we can score...but we need Rozee and Butters delivering to them.

Get me a Harry Sheezel or a Brayden George with our first pick - someone who can play R1 in the forward line - put him alongside Fantasia, and I guarantee we improve out of sight, regardless who coaches us. If we stupidly pick anything OTHER than a general forward - like the midfielder or key defender that some people keep suggesting - then we will waste another season.

I said a few weeks ago that this season might be the recession we had to have. This is the reason.
Click to expand...
A brilliant football anaalysis
 
Janus said:
And this has always been my point.

In the past 10 years, what players have we missed out on at the draft that you would select over the players we picked?

2013 draft - we select Jarman Impey after trading Pick 14 to get two second round picks to give one to Brisbane for Polec. The guys in between 14 and our selection were Cam McCarthy, Zak Jones, Darcy Lang, Michael Apeness, Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres and Jack Leslie. A guy we could have picked is Zach Merrett but seeing what happened with him staying with Essendon, there's no guarantee he even sticks around due to what is happening with his mother. We also pick Darcy Byrne-Jones and Karl Amon late.

2014 draft - We think we are close to a flag so we trade our first and second round picks for Patrick Ryder. We don't do this to replace Lobbe, because we believe that he'll continue his 2014 form with his second efforts etc, but to get a forward/ruck. When you look at the draft and the selections we could have picked if we kept our draft picks, even though it didn't work out I'm still picking Ryder ten times out of ten. We also pick up Dougal Howard and Logan Austin so it's not like we're ignoring our lack of defenders.

2015 draft - for all the talk of Hinkley not valuing key forwards, we ended up trading Pick 10 and a 2016 second round pick for Dixon instead of just keeping it and selecting either Harry McKay or Charlie Curnow. We pick Riley Bonner with 37 and actually try to address our small forward problem by picking Aidyn Johnson - again, go through the draft and you'll see there was hardly anything available for us.

2016 draft - once we have a decent key forward in Dixon, we do a deal with Sydney to get their first round pick and select Marshall with our first pick and Powell-Pepper with the next first round pick. In a perfect world, Shai Bolton slips 3 spots and we pick him up with the pick we used on Joe Atley. Hindsight says that we draft Bolton with the Powell-Pepper pick but that could be said about every single club in the draft.

2017 draft - There is literally no player in the first round from 12 on (our pick was used on Darcy Fogarty) I would take over Powell-Pepper right now. In hindsight, trading our second round pick for Watts was a mistake - could have had Fritsch or Petty. But again, at this point in time we had Howard on our list and he was developing nicely. We pick Hayes and Farrell and again, trying to fix our lack of a small forward, we pick Dom Barry. The difference between us and Geelong is that it worked for them with Stengle, it didn't work for us.

2018 draft - trade out Wingard, Polec and Pittard. Get Rozee, Butters, Duursma and Burton, plus Mayes as steak knives. Even with Duursma's loss of form this year, I'm doing those trades and picking those players ten times out of ten. The only real small forward available is Rankine and he wasn't available to us.

2019 draft - trade out Howard. I'll keep saying it that our plan was to pick Bergman, Georgiades and De Koning (as a replacement for Howard), and that Geelong had exactly the same plan, hence why we traded with Carlton as soon as Geelong made their selection. Could have picked Weightman as that small forward over Bergman, but I'm glad we didn't. End up with Bergman, Georgiades (another key forward), Williams (still searching for a crafty small forward after striking out with Johnson and Barry) and Mead. Recruiting seems to indicate that we were probably aware that Amon was going to leave in 2022 at this point, which is why we went for Bergman who could slot into a wing position.

2020 draft - draft Jones. Looking at the draft itself it was pretty slim, which is why we traded out of it and got Aliir and Fantasia. Pick up Schofield as well.

2021 draft - halfway through the season, we select McEntee because again, we're STILL looking for a small forward with speed. This gets doubled down on after getting burnt by the Dogs midfield, target and get Josh Sinn. Tried to convince Merrett to come as a FA, he resigns with Essendon. Try to address our lack of key defenders by selecting Sam Skinner as a DFA.

We've been looking for a small creative forward so badly that we were playing spuds like Jake Neade and Sam Gray in the role because at least they put on pressure. But we've always, ALWAYS been looking to upgrade that position. We put Impey up forward and he seemed to have an idea what to do but then he *ed off to Hawthorn. We tried Johnson and he was hopeless. We tried Barry - the same. Tobin Cox. Boyd Woodcock. We drafted Williams in the hope that he could make something out of nothing and I'm still holding out that hope but he needs to get a move on in the off-season. It's so bad that we are forced to pick McEntee because at least he has the fitness to run out games.

It's not like the coaches haven't identified what we need.

It's frustrating as * because the way the game has evolved, the small forward is the one who produces a lot of your scoring - and because of this, the elite small forward goes pretty high in the draft. A good team defence will blanket the key forwards and bring the ball to ground. When Rozee and Butters are playing up forward, we can score...but we need Rozee and Butters delivering to them.

Get me a Harry Sheezel or a Brayden George with our first pick - someone who can play R1 in the forward line - put him alongside Fantasia, and I guarantee we improve out of sight, regardless who coaches us. If we stupidly pick anything OTHER than a general forward - like the midfielder or key defender that some people keep suggesting - then we will waste another season.

I said a few weeks ago that this season might be the recession we had to have. This is the reason.
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The whole premise of this post is that there’s nothing more that Hinkley could’ve done.

It’s a false premise.

Selecting other players at the draft with the picks we had is not the only option here. Choices are made and opportunities lost. You’ve identified the Fritsch opportunity, but there are endless others. For example what if we had traded Lobbe for the first rounder on offer instead of Pick 200 only a couple of years later? O’Shea’s another one where we were offered overs for an obviously limited footballer. Nah let’s hold on for a bit and then delist him for nothing. Draft capital just circling down the drain.

We could have traded different players in, or perhaps not and traded out instead to improve draft position. Hell we can even trade the future these days (but not The Future, let’s wait until he’s dust too before moving him on). There are infinite timelines here.

Side note: Don’t pump up the Wingard and Polec trades with Butters, he was just our default first round draft pick.

THEN, even IF we had selected better players they would have to be developed appropriately, selected appropriately, and play within a system that doesn’t play fearful keepy off stat-pumping sh1t the bed footy.

All Hinkley’s domain. All his responsibility.

He has failed no matter how you cut it and all the while more than half his colleagues have figured things out and gone straight past us.
 
RossFC said:
View attachment 1460554
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This sums up what we've become under Hinkley - a team that tries really hard, and never gives up. Trouble is, the other team invariably comes out on top when it really matters. Whoever took the real Port Adelaide away from us, can we please have it back now, because I'm sick of this vanillarised version.
 
JakeNeadeFan said:
Ratings are spot on this week, outside of a slightly bizarre high rating of finlayson. Our top ten were very good and our bottom ten or so were terrible.
  • McEntee should be delisted
  • Georgiades has an enormous amount of work to do an I'm not sure he will ever get there. The definition of a one dimensional player with one trick and currently that trick isn't working for him
  • Gray is just taking away a spot from a younger player. Farewell game and then that's it
  • Marshall had a poor game compared to his usual standard.
  • Jones and Duursma looked like they were getting up to speed of AFL. Duursma in particular had the worst first 4 disposals I can remember. And then by the end of the first quarter looked much more settled. Both need a block of time at AFL level.
  • Burton had his worst game I can remember in a long time
  • Aliir had had a sub par year and this was a sub par game.
  • We need a ruckman. Finlayson must have found some sort of trick to maximising his player rating score but the reality is that he is a decent second ruck but not a long term first ruck option
  • Dixon had a horrific game.

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6 of the 7 highest rated players on the field but couldn’t win. That’s coaching, not players.
 

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Review Round 20 v Collingwood

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